BLM founder sentenced to 6 years for illegally voting.

[Ray From Cleveland]

Legislators only make law in an authoritarian dictatorship.
In a democratic republic, laws are only supposed to be an expression of the defense of inherent rights that always existed.
So then detailed legislation of these pre-existing common laws can be written, but never just something made up from scratch.
And all drug laws are totally made up and illegal.

Representative republics are not where an arbitrary majority gets to do what ever it wants.
There is no means provided in the Constitution, by which voting rights can be interfered with.
If the majority can decide to legislate the infringement of a minority, then slavery could be legal again.
And clearly that is wrong.
Legislation can not infringe upon inherent rights.
Voting is an inherent right.
There is absolutely no legal way to change that.

There is no inherent right to take dope or sell it to somebody thus killing them. There is no inherent right to go 100 mph on the highway. There is no inherent right to throw your garbage out in the street.

The Constitution gives us the right to vote in representatives that best hold our interests. That is our only power as citizens. If you don't like your representation, you can vote for new representation next election. In an authoritarian dictatorship, you have no right to vote in representatives. They are provided to you by the government.

 

[Rigby5]

And until you provide evidence as such the verdict stands that she's guilty. The probation officer obviously didn't do their job. They may have asked her if she was on probation and she told them she wasn't. That's what it sounds like to me.

If I hand a cashier a counterfeit 50 dollar bill and he or she doesn't check for the watermark to see if it's fake, that doesn't absolve me from the crime because the clerk made a mistake. I am still guilty of counterfeiting no matter what and have to pay the penalty.

Wrong.
I do not know what specifically went down at the probation office, but the articles say it involved papers verifying she was eligible to vote.
There is no way to verbally scam anyone from what I read.
The article says it was the probation board who made a mistake, and does not at all imply any sort of "scam" was even possible.
We do not know what the judge saw or based their opinion on, but I suspect the judge was reacting due to the race and political views of the defendant, not law.

And no, if you pass a counterfeit bill, you are NOT guilty of anything, if you did not deliberately create the counterfeit bill.
If you pass it after getting it without your knowledge, you committed no crime.

Until someone details what sort of "scam" could have been possible, then one has to presume innocence.
The judge however, clearly appears to be incredibly biased.
Attempting a single vote is NOT an offense worth of any sort of sentence at all.
It would only be significant if she had voted at least a half dozen times or so.

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

I heard somewhere there is no such thing as illegal votes.

Tennessee BLM founder sentenced to 6 years in prison for illegally voting

A Black Lives Matter chapter founder in Tennessee, Pamela Moses, sentenced to six years in prison for illegally registering to vote.

www.foxnews.com

Good if true. One person, one vote. Fraud must be punished

 

[Rigby5]

There is no inherent right to take dope or sell it to somebody thus killing them. There is no inherent right to go 100 mph on the highway. There is no inherent right to throw your garbage out in the street.

The Constitution gives us the right to vote in representatives that best hold our interests. That is our only power as citizens. If you don't like your representation, you can vote for new representation next election. In an authoritarian dictatorship, you have no right to vote in representatives. They are provided to you by the government.

Wrong.
There is an inherent right to do WHATEVER you want until it starts to harm the rights of others.
Drugs NEVER risk the rights of others.

Going 100 mph is perfectly legal and an inhernet right, as long as you are not on a public road.
For example, the guy who launched himself into the sky with a steam cannon, broke no laws, even though he killed himself.
Throwing garbage on the street is a health hazard to others.

The right to vote for representatives does NOT authorize those representatives to make anything illegal that harms no one else.
Any legislation that is not justified by the needed defense of the rights of others, is totally and completely illegal, authoritarian, and unauthorized by any constitution.
Drug laws are totally authoritarian as they are not and can not be justified by the defense of any individual right.
They are totally and completely arbitrary edicts.

Voting is useless, like in Russia, if those elected are preselected and are going to do whatever they want anyway.

 

[Rigby5]

Good if true. One person, one vote. Fraud must be punished

She was only one person and attempting to legally register to vote once.
She committed no fraud.
And in fact, she was illegally denied her right to vote while paying taxes.

 

[Colin norris]

Wrong.
I do not like Trump, but Hillary claimed the 2016 election was stolen by the Russians,

How is it illegal for her to claim that when trump blamed his own citizens for rigging his election?

and Trump was impeached over the paid for Steale Dossier.

He was impeached for violating of his oath of office over the quid pro quo with Ukraine. You're not quite as up to speed son.

That was clearly illegal by Hillary.

 

[FA_Q2]

Court ruled racist, as do you.

AND

Your ignorance of actual parole actions is as large as our support of racist decisions.

racist.

Ya, that is all you got. Whine about race because your head is empty.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

He was impeached for violating of his oath of office over the quid pro quo with Ukraine. You're not quite as up to speed son.

You can put that lie to rest already. He never threatened Zelensky for anything. It's actually the first impeachment with no impeachable offense. Asking a leader of another country for a "favor" is not impeachable. The first Thought Police impeachment in history.

 

[Rigby5]

How is it illegal for her to claim that when trump blamed his own citizens for rigging his election?


He was impeached for violating of his oath of office over the quid pro quo with Ukraine. You're not quite as up to speed son.

First of all, there were TWO impeachments, not just one, and I was referring to the first one, over the meetings between Trump supporters and the Russian ambassador.
Hillary's attack on Trump for that was illegal because she accepted an illegal contribution from the British for this, with the Steele Dossier.

The second also was illegal because we all heard the phone conversation, where there was no quid pro quo requested.
In fact, there was no delay in Ukraine aid.
But aid to the Ukraine was illegal because the Ukraine was stealing Russian oil.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong.
There is an inherent right to do WHATEVER you want until it starts to harm the rights of others.
Drugs NEVER risk the rights of others.

Going 100 mph is perfectly legal and an inhernet right, as long as you are not on a public road.
For example, the guy who launched himself into the sky with a steam cannon, broke no laws, even though he killed himself.
Throwing garbage on the street is a health hazard to others.

The right to vote for representatives does NOT authorize those representatives to make anything illegal that harms no one else.
Any legislation that is not justified by the needed defense of the rights of others, is totally and completely illegal, authoritarian, and unauthorized by any constitution.
Drug laws are totally authoritarian as they are not and can not be justified by the defense of any individual right.
They are totally and completely arbitrary edicts.

Voting is useless, like in Russia, if those elected are preselected and are going to do whatever they want anyway.

Where do you get these set of rules nobody has ever seen before? Our legislators have the right to make any law they desire as long as it's not a violation of our state or federal Constitutions. They made recreational narcotics illegal to posses, use or sell on the streets. Nothing in the Constitution that says they can't, and as long as it doesn't violate any rights, they can and did write those laws. The people stood behind those laws. You are just upset you are in such a minority.

 

[Colin norris]

First of all, there were TWO impeachments, not just one, and I was referring to the first one, over the meetings between Trump supporters and the Russian ambassador.

Hillary's attack on Trump for that was illegal because she accepted an illegal contribution from the British for this, with the Steele Dossier.

The second also was illegal because we all heard the phone conversation, where there was no quid pro quo requested.

That was his first impeachment you nut. Why are you deliberately spinning it to blame Hilary?
Why wasn't she impeached? Because she did nothing wrong and after exhaustive searches by republicans to nail her, they failed.

In fact, there was no delay in Ukraine aid.
But aid to the Ukraine was illegal because the Ukraine was stealing Russian oil.

And how is that related to anyone in the USA. You're drawing a long bow there.
You're desperate to implicate her in anything because of Democrat hatred. The same bullshit was flying arou d when republicans suggested she had a hand in 60 people disappearing/ suiciding etc. For Christ sake. You people are all fucking mad.
You hate to the point of complete paranoia.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong.
I do not know what specifically went down at the probation office, but the articles say it involved papers verifying she was eligible to vote.
There is no way to verbally scam anyone from what I read.
The article says it was the probation board who made a mistake, and does not at all imply any sort of "scam" was even possible.
We do not know what the judge saw or based their opinion on, but I suspect the judge was reacting due to the race and political views of the defendant, not law.

And no, if you pass a counterfeit bill, you are NOT guilty of anything, if you did not deliberately create the counterfeit bill.
If you pass it after getting it without your knowledge, you committed no crime.

Until someone details what sort of "scam" could have been possible, then one has to presume innocence.
The judge however, clearly appears to be incredibly biased.
Attempting a single vote is NOT an offense worth of any sort of sentence at all.
It would only be significant if she had voted at least a half dozen times or so.

In post 39:

In handing down the sentence, Judge Michael Ward accused her of deceiving the probation department to obtain the right to vote, “You tricked the probation department into giving you documents saying you were off probation,” Ward said in court, the Washington Post reported.

Memphis BLM founder Pamela Moses sentenced to 6 years for illegally voting

BLM’s Pamela Moses was ordered to spend six years and one day behind bars Monday for registering to vote despite felony convictions.

nypost.com

 

[ClaireH]

Depends on what someone did.
If they committed a real crime, like rape or domestic violence, then there is nothing wrong with turning them over to the police, because the police then are not criminals and are doing good.
But if the police are doing something bogus, like a drug bust, no-knock-warrant, revenue gauging from traffic mistake, etc., then police are evil.

I have seen people trying to scrape by selling hotdogs on a downtown corner, ticketed by police, put out of business, then unable to pay the rent, made homeless, etc.
Lots of people go bankrupt over a $500 traffic ticket.

No one belongs in jail over drugs.
Drugs are stupid, but there is no legal way to criminalize them, their use, or possession.
Legal authority come from defense of inherent rights of others, not the dictates of some bureaucrat.
Laws not needed for the dense of rights are ABSOLUTELY illegal and legislators, prosecutors, police, and judges who do not recognize that simple fact, are the worst criminals of all.

Just about everything sold in modern society is dangerous enough to kill.
From cars to rat poison.
The reason drugs kill is because police make them illegal and that prevents quality and quantity standards, and causes overdoses.
Every single overdose is murder by police.
Drugs would not kill a single person, if not for police.

Rigbsy, question about your statement that “No one belongs in jail over drugs”. What about adults who knowingly promote their illicit drugs to middle school kids, who in turn sell their drugs to friends and return money to dealer? I am sure you know I’m not making up some type of unique situation here. Do you think those drug dealers should get off scot-free? No way. Not in my city thankfully.

Edit- I’m in agreement with you, however, that most drug users should not be in jail. Certainly not for pot unless as I indicated involves kids. No kid (imo up to 21 but yeah I know 18 established age of adulthood) should be smoking pot as their brain stem hasn’t fully connected to the frontal lobe to make logical choices to even make that decision. It also impairs brain development. Drug addicts convicted strictly for possession and not selling takes up manpower and space that needs to go toward cartel violence and to target violent repeat felons.

 

[Rigby5]

Where do you get these set of rules nobody has ever seen before? Our legislators have the right to make any law they desire as long as it's not a violation of our state or federal Constitutions. They made recreational narcotics illegal to posses, use or sell on the streets. Nothing in the Constitution that says they can't, and as long as it doesn't violate any rights, they can and did write those laws. The people stood behind those laws. You are just upset you are in such a minority.

Sorry, but these rules have always been what a democratic republic implies.
The goal being where everyone gets to do whatever they want, as much as possible.
The only constraints being when those desires come into conflict with other desires or rights.
Then and ONLY then does government become empowered, and only in what little is necessary in order to support the rights of the people.
The desires of the legislators, does not matter one bit.

And you also have the constitution totally backwards as well.
There never have to be anything in the constitution prohibiting legislation, but instead all legislation is automatically prohibited by default unless there is something explicitly in the Constitution authorizing it.

Does not matter if I am in the minority or majority, no legislator can arbitrarily decree anything, at any time.
Prohibition and the War on Drugs are both inherently and totally illegal.
While these drug laws have no effect on me at all, they totally discredit the government, entirely.
It makes working against government, the only remaining ethical choice.

 

[Rigby5]

That was his first impeachment you nut. Why are you deliberately spinning it to blame Hilary?
Why wasn't she impeached? Because she did nothing wrong and after exhaustive searches by republicans to nail her, they failed.

And how is that related to anyone in the USA. You're drawing a long bow there.
You're desperate to implicate her in anything because of Democrat hatred. The same bullshit was flying arou d when republicans suggested she had a hand in 60 people disappearing/ suiciding etc. For Christ sake. You people are all fucking mad.
You hate to the point of complete paranoia.

Nonsense.
First of all, I am vastly more left, progressive, liberal than anyone here.

Second is that of course we were talking about the first impeachment of Trump, and it was illegal because there was no evidence of any Russian involvement in the campaign or election process.
But Hillary did get the Steele Dossier from the British, which was illegal foreign involvement.
But she was not impeached because she was not holding office.
And no, there was no attempt by anyone to "nail her".
I think even Bill gave up on that a long time ago.

I am not desperate or even trying to implicate Hillary, because it really does not matter.
I only brought it up to show the hypocrisy of the democrats who did try to impeach Trump, when in reality it was the impeachment attempts themselves that were illegal.

The real problem with Hillary is she was the most right wing, war mongering, and evil candidate we ever had.
There was never a single potential for war she did not want to take advantage of.

 

[Rigby5]

In post 39:

In handing down the sentence, Judge Michael Ward accused her of deceiving the probation department to obtain the right to vote, “You tricked the probation department into giving you documents saying you were off probation,” Ward said in court, the Washington Post reported.

Memphis BLM founder Pamela Moses sentenced to 6 years for illegally voting

BLM’s Pamela Moses was ordered to spend six years and one day behind bars Monday for registering to vote despite felony convictions.

nypost.com

Yes, we all know the judge SAID that, but we also all know that is IMPOSSIBLE.
First of all, it contradicts ALL the newspaper articles which said the Probation Office made the mistake all on their own and only they were at fault.
Second is this "judge" never articulate how such a "scam" could ever even remotely be possible.
Probation boards are constantly dealing with criminals.
They have seen and heard every possible scam.
There is no possible way anyone could openly scam them like this, and the judge never said a word that made any sense.
How could she possibly have "tricked the probation department into giving her documents saying she was off probation"?
That is totally and absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.
Such an outright lie by the judge is enough so that he should be removed from the bench.
That level of direct deception by a judge should never be tolerated.
The judge should be sued for slander and libel.

 

[Rigby5]

Rigbsy, question about your statement that “No one belongs in jail over drugs”. What about adults who knowingly promote their illicit drugs to middle school kids, who in turn sell their drugs to friends and return money to dealer? I am sure you know I’m not making up some type of unique situation here. Do you think those drug dealers should get off scot-free? No way. Not in my city thankfully.

Edit- I’m in agreement with you, however, that most drug users should not be in jail. Certainly not for pot unless as I indicated involves kids. No kid (imo up to 21 but yeah I know 18 established age of adulthood) should be smoking pot as their brain stem hasn’t fully connected to the frontal lobe to make logical choices to even make that decision. It also impairs brain development. Drug addicts convicted strictly for possession and not selling takes up manpower and space that needs to go toward cartel violence and to target violent repeat felons.

Total myth.
Middle school kids do not have any significant money, so have nothing to do with drugs.
And again, if drugs are legal and accessible, then there is no drug trade.
There are no "pushers".
My whole point is to take the incentive out of it by removing the profit.

I do not thing anyone should be smoking anything, nicotine, pot, etc.
But the point is that criminalizing it is not a solution, but increases it instead.
Beside ruining lives and the credibility of government.

Once you decriminalize and remove profits, the cartels disappear.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, we all know the judge SAID that, but we also all know that is IMPOSSIBLE.
First of all, it contradicts ALL the newspaper articles which said the Probation Office made the mistake all on their own and only they were at fault.
Second is this "judge" never articulate how such a "scam" could ever even remotely be possible.
Probation boards are constantly dealing with criminals.
They have seen and heard every possible scam.
There is no possible way anyone could openly scam them like this, and the judge never said a word that made any sense.
How could she possibly have "tricked the probation department into giving her documents saying she was off probation"?
That is totally and absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.
Such an outright lie by the judge is enough so that he should be removed from the bench.
That level of direct deception by a judge should never be tolerated.
The judge should be sued for slander and libel.

You weren't at the trial and neither was I, so if this judge determined she scammed the system, that's what happened unless you can prove otherwise which we know you can't. No report said that the probation board were the only people at fault, just that they made a clerical mistake; a typical lazy government worker with a job for life.

She went to the probation board, they didn't go to her. She knew she was still on probation and prohibited from voting. Her intent was to see if she could get away with it and she did. Guilty as charged.

 

[Rigby5]

You weren't at the trial and neither was I, so if this judge determined she scammed the system, that's what happened unless you can prove otherwise which we know you can't. No report said that the probation board were the only people at fault, just that they made a clerical mistake; a typical lazy government worker with a job for life.

She went to the probation board, they didn't go to her. She knew she was still on probation and prohibited from voting. Her intent was to see if she could get away with it and she did. Guilty as charged.

Here is an MSNBC source, Rachel Maddow:
{...
As Rachel explained on last night's show, Moses had a felony conviction in Tennessee that legally resulted in her not being allowed to vote again in that state. But she says that nobody ever told her that the conviction meant that she could no longer vote.

In fact, as The Guardian reported, her county elections board admitted in writing that despite her conviction, local officials never actually took her off the voting rolls. What's more, a probation officer with the Tennessee Department of Corrections even filled out and signed a certificate confirming her probation had ended.
...}

Tennessee BLM founder sentenced to 6 years in prison for illegally voting

A Black Lives Matter chapter founder in Tennessee, Pamela Moses, sentenced to six years in prison for illegally registering to vote.

www.foxnews.com

No one would ever suspect that they could not vote while on probation, because you should never be able to lose the inherent right to vote.
Nor is there anyway she could possibly have manipulated the records in any way.
And she can't be "guilty" because guilt can only happen when someone else is harmed.
Who was harmed?

And we are talking about a Black activist in TN, so why would anyone assume the judge is not racist?

{...
Moses believes she is a victim caught in the midst of complicated Tennessee voting laws.

However, according to New York Times author Edwardo Medina, “Under Tennessee law, people convicted of certain felonies, including tampering with evidence, lose their voting rights forever.”

In 2015 Moses had 16 convictions, including misdemeanor counts of perjury, stalking, and theft under $500.

She claims that she only pleaded guilty to these crimes to avoid jail time, and did not have the funds to pay for her lawyer.
...
However, Moses’ conviction notice was never sent to the election commission so she was on their voting rolls for those six elections.

The Shelby County Election Commission sent a letter to the district attorney stating that they admit it was an error on the court’s behalf, for not sending a conviction notice.

Several years later, in Summer 2019, Moses wanted to run for the Mayor of Memphis or at least vote in the upcoming election and was denied this interest by election officials because of her prior convictions.

Moses claims that she was not made aware that she would lose the right to vote when she entered a guilty plea and was ultimately convicted of these felonies in 2015.

She also was skeptical about the duration of her probation term as she was under the impression she legally could vote once her probation term was over.

Due to this confusion and skepticism, she directly contacted a judge in September 2019 about her probation term, who told her that it was in fact active and ongoing. Yet when she later went to the probation office she was told by a probation officer that her felony probation was over.

The probation officer proceeded to sign off on her voting rights restoration form which Moses then submitted to election officials—24 hours later, it was evident that an error had been made by the probation officer.

The initial judge who had told Moses that her probation period was still active was correct and thus Moses did not have the right to vote.

Despite this confusion, Moses was then convicted of consenting to a false entry on official election documents in November 2019
...}

Black Lives Matter Founder Sentenced to Six Years for Voting Error after State Mistakes – White Voter Crimes Result in No or Minimal Punishment

By Emma Kantor & Sofia Leguria MEMPHIS, TN – In early February of this year, Pamela Moses, the founder of the Memphis chapter of Black Lives Matter, was sentenced to six years and one day in priso

www.davisvanguard.org

Seems pretty obvious the judge was extremely racist and prejudicial, and that the court was at fault for never filing the proper papers in the first place.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Here is an MSNBC source, Rachel Maddow:
{...
As Rachel explained on last night's show, Moses had a felony conviction in Tennessee that legally resulted in her not being allowed to vote again in that state. But she says that nobody ever told her that the conviction meant that she could no longer vote.

In fact, as The Guardian reported, her county elections board admitted in writing that despite her conviction, local officials never actually took her off the voting rolls. What's more, a probation officer with the Tennessee Department of Corrections even filled out and signed a certificate confirming her probation had ended.
...}

Tennessee BLM founder sentenced to 6 years in prison for illegally voting

A Black Lives Matter chapter founder in Tennessee, Pamela Moses, sentenced to six years in prison for illegally registering to vote.

www.foxnews.com

No one would ever suspect that they could not vote while on probation, because you should never be able to lose the inherent right to vote.
Nor is there anyway she could possibly have manipulated the records in any way.
And she can't be "guilty" because guilt can only happen when someone else is harmed.
Who was harmed?

Nobody was harmed but that's irrelevant. You don't have to harm anybody to commit a crime, you only have to break the law.

So I guess what you're saying here is that this woman had no idea she couldn't vote, in spite of having a lawyer in her defense that I'm sure explained that to her, in spite of her ability to call her lawyer to find out, in spite of access to the internet to look up the law about voting on probation, in spite of being smart enough to form the BLM chapter in her state, in spite of being told she couldn't run for Mayor because SHE WAS on probation, she didn't know.

Not to drift off subject, but if you're ever in this area, I have a bridge for sale. You could setup toll booths and make a fortune.