Boy...14, shoots man to death...in Britain..

[BULLDOG]

2aguy knows where guns increase gun deaths increase.

UK gun deaths compared to USA gun death juxtaposed with sensible laws lead to less deaths.

That is what 2aguy can't get around, so he always loses this discussion.

You mean except for here ...in the United States...where 20 years of experience shows the exact opposite of your post...while Britain did what you want...and their gun crime rate is going up, and up.....

The United States:

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


Britain...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.




-------

Two men stabbed dead within hours as violent crime soars in London

The shocking attacks come as new figures revealed crime overall in London is rising, with significant increases in cases of youth violence.


A total of 35 young people under the age of 25 have been murdered in the capital in the last 12 months, an 84 per cent rise on the same period last year.

The number of cases of serious youth violence - a measure of gang activity - also rose by 18 per cent.

-----


as well as a 16 per cent rise in the number of rapes.

-------

Gun crime rose by nearly 19 per cent and the number of shootings was up by 11 per cent to 338.

==============

London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest

While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.

London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically.


The change in fortunes of the two global cities has been put down largely to the difference in tactics adopted by the two police forces.

Both Scotland Yard and the New York City Police Department (NYPD) have just over 30,000 officers each and budgets of around £3 billion a year.

But in the mid-1990s spiralling crime rates in New York - sparked by the crack cocaine epidemic - resulted in radical a new approach being adopted by the city's police department.

Under the leadership of Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and police commissioner, Bill Bratton, the NYPD introduced a zero tolerance approach to low level crime and flooded problem areas with patrols.

The force also put a huge amount of emphasis on community policing in order to build bridges between the police and members of the public.

As a result the murder plummeted from a high in 1990 of over 2,000 to a record low of 335 last year.

That figure is expected to fall even lower this year, and is currently in line to dip below 240.

=======


Arrests plunge by half in 10 years despite soaring crime rate

The new figures come just days after it was revealed the total number of crimes recorded year on year passed the 5 million mark for the first time in a decade.

In the year ending March 2017, only 11 per cent of crimes resulted in someone being charged. In almost half of all crimes (48 per cent) no suspects were identified.

• 
  

Former home secretary David Blunkett claimed officers were more likely to give warnings rather than arrest people in a bid to avoid paperwork.


However, others have pointed to the pressure put on the dwindling number of officers, with a 13 per cent drop in numbers recorded by the Home Office between 2010 and 2016.

Lord Blunkett said: "Police are reluctant to arrest people because of the amount of paperwork involved, so officers are encouraged to give warnings rather than arrest people.

"That means people are on the street who might otherwise be prosecuted and it sends a signal that reverberates very quickly, leading criminals to think they can get away with it."

Campaigners have warned victims are losing confidence in police forces that increasingly treat crimes such as burglary and assault as minor incidents.
========

Speaking to the Telegraph, David Green, chief executive of the Civitas think tank, said: "The police are unable to cope with the volume of crime, and the 20,000 drop in police numbers is bound to have made a difference."


https://pjmedia.com/trending/calling-cops-europe-dont-bother/

Seriously, all you have are two or three talking points and a hand full of misleading statistics. Why don't you just number them? We all have them memorized, and it would save you a lot of time cutting and pasting.

 

[BULLDOG]

The more guns that make their way into England....the higher their murder rate

And, of course, that isn't the truth...as we have shown over the last 20 years. More guns in the hands of criminals = more gun crime when you cut the police forces and take guns away from normal people...but as we did here, when more good people own and carry guns, along with the police actually being able to do their jobs = less gun crime...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Over saturation is not an excuse

We have more guns in private hands than any other nation

It shows in our murder rate

Four times that of other industrialized nations

No....we have a lack of criminal control.....and we didn't experience the Destruction of World War 2, and we didn't have a monarchy here...that is what kept their murder rate low.....that is now changing....and they are going to have far more violence than we have.......you guys are just going to have to accept that...

Hard to accept any unnecessary deaths, but it's not as hard to accept 0.92 deaths per 100,000 than it is to accept our gun death rate. Try again when the numbers aren't so far apart. Your percentages mean very little in the real world.

Yeah...I get it...you don't understand that their gun control laws have nothing to do with their low gun murder rate....their criminals have guns....lots of guns and they are using them more and more, as my links have shown you over and over again.

Their criminals are not using their guns, in Britain, to murder their victims....even in the attack on the Rave in London, they didn't spray the crowd........

Dumb luck and bad shooting is not an effective gun control policy.....

Make up your mind. You claim their gun control laws have everything to do with their murder rate. Remember all those percentages you always spout?

 

[2aguy]

Once again, after all the nonsense above: "UK gun deaths compared to USA gun death juxtaposed with sensible laws lead to less deaths.

That is what 2aguy can't get around, so he always loses this discussion."

He does not understand the problem.

And you are wrong....again, you would have to show that their gun crime rate, their gun murder rate and their violent crime rate went down after they completely banned and confiscated guns.....the exact opposite happened.....the only thing they don't do as much.....yet....is murder with their guns...they are bad shooters and they aren't shooting to kill...yet....

This is how much gun crime and violent crime is going up in Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.




-------

Two men stabbed dead within hours as violent crime soars in London

The shocking attacks come as new figures revealed crime overall in London is rising, with significant increases in cases of youth violence.


A total of 35 young people under the age of 25 have been murdered in the capital in the last 12 months, an 84 per cent rise on the same period last year.

The number of cases of serious youth violence - a measure of gang activity - also rose by 18 per cent.

-----


as well as a 16 per cent rise in the number of rapes.

-------

Gun crime rose by nearly 19 per cent and the number of shootings was up by 11 per cent to 338.

==============

London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest

While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.

London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically.


The change in fortunes of the two global cities has been put down largely to the difference in tactics adopted by the two police forces.

Both Scotland Yard and the New York City Police Department (NYPD) have just over 30,000 officers each and budgets of around £3 billion a year.

But in the mid-1990s spiralling crime rates in New York - sparked by the crack cocaine epidemic - resulted in radical a new approach being adopted by the city's police department.

Under the leadership of Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and police commissioner, Bill Bratton, the NYPD introduced a zero tolerance approach to low level crime and flooded problem areas with patrols.

The force also put a huge amount of emphasis on community policing in order to build bridges between the police and members of the public.

As a result the murder plummeted from a high in 1990 of over 2,000 to a record low of 335 last year.

That figure is expected to fall even lower this year, and is currently in line to dip below 240.

 

[2aguy]

And, of course, that isn't the truth...as we have shown over the last 20 years. More guns in the hands of criminals = more gun crime when you cut the police forces and take guns away from normal people...but as we did here, when more good people own and carry guns, along with the police actually being able to do their jobs = less gun crime...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Over saturation is not an excuse

We have more guns in private hands than any other nation

It shows in our murder rate

Four times that of other industrialized nations

No....we have a lack of criminal control.....and we didn't experience the Destruction of World War 2, and we didn't have a monarchy here...that is what kept their murder rate low.....that is now changing....and they are going to have far more violence than we have.......you guys are just going to have to accept that...

Hard to accept any unnecessary deaths, but it's not as hard to accept 0.92 deaths per 100,000 than it is to accept our gun death rate. Try again when the numbers aren't so far apart. Your percentages mean very little in the real world.

Yeah...I get it...you don't understand that their gun control laws have nothing to do with their low gun murder rate....their criminals have guns....lots of guns and they are using them more and more, as my links have shown you over and over again.

Their criminals are not using their guns, in Britain, to murder their victims....even in the attack on the Rave in London, they didn't spray the crowd........

Dumb luck and bad shooting is not an effective gun control policy.....

Make up your mind. You claim their gun control laws have everything to do with their murder rate. Remember all those percentages you always spout?

No...I have never said that...anywhere.....I have stated that their gun control laws did not lower their gun crime rate, their gun murder rate and they did not lower their violent crime rate....

Their cuts to police, their cuts to police money, their Political correct attacks on their police, and importing violent criminals are increasing their gun crime rates...their gun control is not stopping it.....all it has done is make more British citizens easy victims of the increasingly violent criminals...

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can post the misleading stats all you want, but the good guys know they are bad.

UK has a much lower death rate per capital because of good gun laws.

Tough, huh?

 

[2aguy]

You can post the misleading stats all you want, but the good guys know they are bad.

UK has a much lower death rate per capital because of good gun laws.

Tough, huh?

And you can lie over and over again....the truth, the facts and reality show you are wrong.

 

[BULLDOG]

Over saturation is not an excuse

We have more guns in private hands than any other nation

It shows in our murder rate

Four times that of other industrialized nations

No....we have a lack of criminal control.....and we didn't experience the Destruction of World War 2, and we didn't have a monarchy here...that is what kept their murder rate low.....that is now changing....and they are going to have far more violence than we have.......you guys are just going to have to accept that...

Hard to accept any unnecessary deaths, but it's not as hard to accept 0.92 deaths per 100,000 than it is to accept our gun death rate. Try again when the numbers aren't so far apart. Your percentages mean very little in the real world.

Yeah...I get it...you don't understand that their gun control laws have nothing to do with their low gun murder rate....their criminals have guns....lots of guns and they are using them more and more, as my links have shown you over and over again.

Their criminals are not using their guns, in Britain, to murder their victims....even in the attack on the Rave in London, they didn't spray the crowd........

Dumb luck and bad shooting is not an effective gun control policy.....

Make up your mind. You claim their gun control laws have everything to do with their murder rate. Remember all those percentages you always spout?

No...I have never said that...anywhere.....I have stated that their gun control laws did not lower their gun crime rate, their gun murder rate and they did not lower their violent crime rate....

Their cuts to police, their cuts to police money, their Political correct attacks on their police, and importing violent criminals are increasing their gun crime rates...their gun control is not stopping it.....all it has done is make more British citizens easy victims of the increasingly violent criminals...

I'm not British. I don't care about your hatred for them, but you are funny. Say some more.

 

[2aguy]

No....we have a lack of criminal control.....and we didn't experience the Destruction of World War 2, and we didn't have a monarchy here...that is what kept their murder rate low.....that is now changing....and they are going to have far more violence than we have.......you guys are just going to have to accept that...

Hard to accept any unnecessary deaths, but it's not as hard to accept 0.92 deaths per 100,000 than it is to accept our gun death rate. Try again when the numbers aren't so far apart. Your percentages mean very little in the real world.

Yeah...I get it...you don't understand that their gun control laws have nothing to do with their low gun murder rate....their criminals have guns....lots of guns and they are using them more and more, as my links have shown you over and over again.

Their criminals are not using their guns, in Britain, to murder their victims....even in the attack on the Rave in London, they didn't spray the crowd........

Dumb luck and bad shooting is not an effective gun control policy.....

Make up your mind. You claim their gun control laws have everything to do with their murder rate. Remember all those percentages you always spout?

No...I have never said that...anywhere.....I have stated that their gun control laws did not lower their gun crime rate, their gun murder rate and they did not lower their violent crime rate....

Their cuts to police, their cuts to police money, their Political correct attacks on their police, and importing violent criminals are increasing their gun crime rates...their gun control is not stopping it.....all it has done is make more British citizens easy victims of the increasingly violent criminals...

I'm not British. I don't care about your hatred for them, but you are funny. Say some more.

I don't hate the British...I feel sorry for the victims created by their stupid gun control laws.....laws that have allowed violent criminals to rape, and rob at will.......

 

[BULLDOG]

Hard to accept any unnecessary deaths, but it's not as hard to accept 0.92 deaths per 100,000 than it is to accept our gun death rate. Try again when the numbers aren't so far apart. Your percentages mean very little in the real world.

Yeah...I get it...you don't understand that their gun control laws have nothing to do with their low gun murder rate....their criminals have guns....lots of guns and they are using them more and more, as my links have shown you over and over again.

Their criminals are not using their guns, in Britain, to murder their victims....even in the attack on the Rave in London, they didn't spray the crowd........

Dumb luck and bad shooting is not an effective gun control policy.....

Make up your mind. You claim their gun control laws have everything to do with their murder rate. Remember all those percentages you always spout?

No...I have never said that...anywhere.....I have stated that their gun control laws did not lower their gun crime rate, their gun murder rate and they did not lower their violent crime rate....

Their cuts to police, their cuts to police money, their Political correct attacks on their police, and importing violent criminals are increasing their gun crime rates...their gun control is not stopping it.....all it has done is make more British citizens easy victims of the increasingly violent criminals...

I'm not British. I don't care about your hatred for them, but you are funny. Say some more.

I don't hate the British...I feel sorry for the victims created by their stupid gun control laws.....laws that have allowed violent criminals to rape, and rob at will.......

Don't care. Say something else funny.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can post the misleading stats all you want, but the good guys know they are bad.

UK has a much lower death rate per capital because of good gun laws.

Tough, huh?

And you can lie over and over again....the truth, the facts and reality show you are wrong.

The stats don't lie, brother, so say something new. You way is a wrong way.

 

[2aguy]

You can post the misleading stats all you want, but the good guys know they are bad.

UK has a much lower death rate per capital because of good gun laws.

Tough, huh?

And you can lie over and over again....the truth, the facts and reality show you are wrong.

The stats don't lie, brother, so say something new. You way is a wrong way.

I know it is Halloween...but you shouldn't drink and use drugs when you celebrate...this is the day for kids....sober up.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can post the misleading stats all you want, but the good guys know they are bad.

UK has a much lower death rate per capital because of good gun laws.

Tough, huh?

And you can lie over and over again....the truth, the facts and reality show you are wrong.

The stats don't lie, brother, so say something new. You way is a wrong way.

I know it is Halloween...but you shouldn't drink and use drugs when you celebrate...this is the day for kids....sober up.

silly ad homs show you have lost the debate yet again

 

[Papageorgio]

The UK is doing it right. We should be more like them.

What is the murder rate in the UK vs the US?

us 4.88 per 100,000 U.K 0.92 per 100,000
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

In 1996 the UK made new restrictive gun laws and the gun murder rate went down, did the murder rate in the UK go up or down the next several years until 2003 when they hire more law enforcement officers?

You're trying to play with percentages. Big deal. We have 4.88 murders per 100,000. They have 0.92. Your silly percentages don't matter with that wide a gap.

The fact was GB murder rate went up from 1997 to 2003. The gun murder rate went down but overall went up. Not having a gun changed how they killed and didn't stop them from killing. The reason it dropped in 2003, more law enforcement officers. The next thing is how does GB score murders vs how the US score murders.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that UK murder rates per capita are much lower than the US and always have been so.

 

[Rustic]

The fact is that UK murder rates per capita are much lower than the US and always have been so.

Progressive areas of the country is where all of the violence happens in this country. It must be progressive’s that are at fault, the control freaks they are

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that UK murder rates per capita are much lower than the US and always have been so.

Progressive areas of the country is where all of the violence happens in this country. It must be progressive’s that are at fault, the control freaks they are

Silly, silly you.

 

[Rustic]

The fact is that UK murder rates per capita are much lower than the US and always have been so.

Progressive areas of the country is where all of the violence happens in this country. It must be progressive’s that are at fault, the control freaks they are

Silly, silly you.

2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Firearms are the least of your worries

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact remains the gun-regulated UK, even with accounting the per capita difference, has far, far, far less gun deaths than America.

Deal with it, gun bunnies.

 

[Rustic]

The fact remains the gun-regulated UK, even with accounting the per capita difference, has far, far, far less gun deaths than America.

Deal with it, gun bunnies.

Depends on where you live in America, live in the progressive areas violence is the norm.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact remains the gun-regulated UK, even with accounting the per capita difference, has far, far, far less gun deaths than America.

Deal with it, gun bunnies.

Depends on where you live in America, live in the progressive areas violence is the norm.

Live in rural East Texas, buddy.