Boy leads protest over deported mother

[Stephanie]

Those were coups staged by the US, try to actually educate yourself. This information comes from our OWN US GOVT DOCUMENTS and are not coups we DENY even. It is my OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENTS FAULT as MY govt is the US one.

Now people in those nations have most certainly tried to control their own lives and govt, it is the US who sends in the mercenary death squads (most trained right at the school of Americas) to terrorize people and to help strip them of their lands, their farms, their homes etc. They are killed, they disappear, they are tortured and this has been going on for DECADES now.

Its seems it is the US who cannot control our own govt....why cant we do that? Why are you so uninformed about what your OWN govt does?

Its exactly why the US govt is on such a mission to get rid of Chavez in Venezuela......Its the reason we spend so much time demonizing Chavez in Venezuela without saying a WORD about the horrible situation going on in Guatemala right now.

Enjoy living in all these poor governments who have NO CONTROL OVER ANYTHING IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY......EXCEPT.....their very own government lives in the most opulent of all living.......But........that is the fault of.......someone else..........
Unfortunately.........when you keep a people uneducated, that is when you can control the pure propaganda of their minds.........

I hope you live a opulent life and feel proud of yourself..........

IT'S ALWAY'S because of ..........................SOMEONE ELSE...

 

[Ruby]

Enjoy living in all these poor governments who have NO CONTROL OVER ANYTHING IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY......EXCEPT.....their very own government lives in the most opulent of all living.......But........that is the fault of.......someone else..........
Unfortunately.........when you keep a people uneducated, that is when you can control the pure propaganda of their minds.........

I hope you live a opulent life and feel proud of yourself..........

IT'S ALWAY'S because of ..........................SOMEONE ELSE...

You dont have any real grasp of the subject matter here do ya?

They dont enjoy living in nations that are controlled by US dominance and terrorism...hence the problem the US is having with heavy illegal immigration.

Enjoy your race to the bottom for wages, enjoy the disappearance of the manufacturing sector as well! The harm you do to others has consequences for you as well.

 

[Ruby]

LMAO @ Haiti in 2004. What a joke. Obviously, Ruby doesn't know shit about macroeconomics and globalization. There are several justifiable reasons for the US to back REGIME CHANGE in many of those countries. Ruby with all of her non-interventionist propoganda would most likely back a military coup against a number of countries right now. In fact, I bet the US is at the top of her list.

So now you want to defend stripping people of their rights to self determine? We have no right to interferre just as no other nation has a right to inteferre in the US's right to self determine.

Nope, the only coups I would ever support are popularly supported coups by the citizens themselves within their own nations....I wouldnt support any foreign interferrence.

Yes I do support NON INTERVENTION into the political lives and self determination of foreign nations...we all have a right to shape our own lives and our own nations.

I dont, nor would I, support any foreign nation backing, staging or supporting a coup in the US. The US is entitled to the SAME rights of self determination as all other nations are.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Once again for the truly slow provide some evidence we train death squads at any military School. The School of America is to train Officers for those countries military. Officers picked and sent by that Country.

And last I checked the CIA does a LOT of things against the laws and policies of our Government. It could be why it was stripped of a bit of power a few years back. Hell they tried to openly effect the 2004 US Presidential election by getting Kerry elected. Illegal action I might add as they are forbidden to operate in the US.

 

[mattskramer]

Once again for the truly slow provide some evidence we train death squads at any military School. The School of America is to train Officers for those countries military. Officers picked and sent by that Country.

http://www.soaw.org/faq.php

The School of the Americas (SOA) is a U.S. Army training school that trains soldiers and military personnel from Latin American countries in subjects like counter-insurgency, military intelligence and counter-narcotics operations. Under Department of Defense jurisdiction, this school is funded by U.S. taxpayer money, all of the training is conducted in Spanish, and most of the classes are taught by Latin American instructors. According to the SOA itself, more than 60,000 members of Latin American militaries have attended the SOA since its inception in 1946....

You can find criminals of every ilk who graduated from Harvard, Yale, or Princeton, but no one advocates closing those institutions because of the crimes of some of their graduates. If Harvard, Yale, or Princeton taught their students combat skills that to be used against non-combatant civilians, we would justifiably call for their closure. The few "bad apples" argument is not very convincing, given the weight of the evidence about the involvement of SOA graduates in human rights abuses -- two of three officers cited in the assassination of Archbishop Romero; three of five officers cited in the rape and murder of four U.S. churchwomen; ten of twelve cited for the El Mozote massacre of 900 civilians; over 100 of 246 cited for atrocities in Colombia. Furthermore, the full scope of atrocities committed by SOA graduates will likely never be known because members of Latin American militaries are generally above the law. It is rare that crimes by members of these militaries are investigated and rarer still when the names of those suspected are released.


http://www.soaw.org/article.php?id=205

A list of SOA graduates.

http://www.soaw.org/article.php?id=1024

A particularly sad story.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

So now you want to defend stripping people of their rights to self determine? We have no right to interferre just as no other nation has a right to inteferre in the US's right to self determine.

Nope, the only coups I would ever support are popularly supported coups by the citizens themselves within their own nations....I wouldnt support any foreign interferrence.

Yes I do support NON INTERVENTION into the political lives and self determination of foreign nations...we all have a right to shape our own lives and our own nations.

I dont, nor would I, support any foreign nation backing, staging or supporting a coup in the US. The US is entitled to the SAME rights of self determination as all other nations are.

Spoken like a true humanitarian. I never thought I'd ever see you write fuck Darfur, fuck the Balkans, and fuck Liberia....

Ruby says, "let the world's genocides continue."

 

[Shogun]

Ruby, I am curious...


and please don't take this as any sarcasm because i'm not trying to flame you....


In your opinion, taking the above into consideration, should the slave owning south have had the same rights to shape their own lives and their own nation? To what extent would you think it appropriate to interfere if a nation, say Mexico, were blatantly active and prosperous in the slave trade? specifically the sex slave trade? I'm trying to gauge how absolute is the right to autonomously shape the lives and nations of a people.

 

[Ruby]

Ruby, I am curious...


and please don't take this as any sarcasm because i'm not trying to flame you....


In your opinion, taking the above into consideration, should the slave owning south have had the same rights to shape their own lives and their own nation? To what extent would you think it appropriate to interfere if a nation, say Mexico, were blatantly active and prosperous in the slave trade? specifically the sex slave trade? I'm trying to gauge how absolute is the right to autonomously shape the lives and nations of a people.

I understand your question, its a good one and will always come up...When is it ok to interferre?

This has to be one that is always carefully weighed and when we do determine to interferre on a humanitarian basis we must make sure not to inteferre in the community carrying out its political will (establishing its own govts, laws, customs etc). There have been many scholars who believe you should NEVER interferre, even in the case of humanitarian causes (which are always suspect and its hard to find even one example in history where a nation would do so for purely altruistic reasons).

The example you give is a good one, but this one was determined by the people of the nation internally in a civil war. Although I also would argue it was the souths RIGHT to suceede and become their own political community. The slave trade itself was not domestic, it went OUTSIDE its borders and captured foreigners to become slaves and on that basis the international community could step in and rescue kidnapped foreigners and ancestors as well as stop them from invading other lands to kidnap more.

On mexico, if they were to engage in a sex slave trade and prosper and this was a legal act (mexico making it legal on an official basis). I would consider it a deep violation of human rights but it would have to be the community itself that stood up to stop it. I would agree with other deterrents such as cutting of diplomatic ties, trade etc to nations who are in such violations. We have another option, we could join the world court and establish national human rights and be able to bring leaders who violate them to court for such things and leave nations to work out their own political lives and futures without invasions or occupations.

Here is the bottomline though, IF it is determined (and there are cases it could be) that a foreign nation should interferre to help people inside a foreign community, then it should be limited to stopping a human rights violation AND NOT go beyond. The foreign community cannot change its borders, be part of selecting new govts, create new laws etc.

Can you find an example of a purely altruistic act such as you are describing by any nation in any time of history? The reason I ask this of you is to make the point that we are asking for somthing that dosent really happen and if we are to be honest, the humanitarian cause is more often the EXCUSE or rationale given for a nations own selfish reasons...thats the trap.

Keep in mind that all governments have a duty to protect the lives of their citizens and only put them on the line to benefit their own society....is it even ok to ask people to give up their lives for another nation while not benefitting their own in any way? Is this the right of our leaders? These are also questions that arise.

 

[Ruby]

Spoken like a true humanitarian. I never thought I'd ever see you write fuck Darfur, fuck the Balkans, and fuck Liberia....

Ruby says, "let the world's genocides continue."

Using wipe sweeping over-generalizations arent a good counter argument at all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Using wipe sweeping over-generalizations arent a good counter argument at all.

Basicly you have reinforced exactly those "wide, sweeping generalizations" in the post above this.

Darfur is no ones buisness, according to your statements made above, except the people of Darfur. Serbia had every right to as the former Yugoslavia to impose her will on break away republics of that country, It was an internal matter. Further, since Serbia claimed she had nothing to do with Bosnia or Croatia those were internal civil wars, they should have been left to the people of those Countries to solve.

The UN has no right to send peace keepers anywhere, that is interfering in the rights and powers of Sovereign Nations. In act the UN mettles in other Countries rights and powers with just about every function it maintains world wide.

 

[Ruby]

Basicly you have reinforced exactly those "wide, sweeping generalizations" in the post above this.

Darfur is no ones buisness, according to your statements made above, except the people of Darfur. Serbia had every right to as the former Yugoslavia to impose her will on break away republics of that country, It was an internal matter. Further, since Serbia claimed she had nothing to do with Bosnia or Croatia those were internal civil wars, they should have been left to the people of those Countries to solve.

The UN has no right to send peace keepers anywhere, that is interfering in the rights and powers of Sovereign Nations. In act the UN mettles in other Countries rights and powers with just about every function it maintains world wide.

You are far to generalized and I have already had enough experience with you to fully understand you have no clue how to think beyond a very shallow surface level.

What we do have a problem with is using humanitarian excuses to further selfish and imperialist goals. We dont have a clear cut off that aids the humanitarian cause and stops itself from interferring in the self determination of a nation. Whether we like to face the fact or not...we most often PROLONG conflicts and ADD to the bloodshed and body count.

Give me an example in history where a nation went in for purely altruistic reasons and KEPT those reasons in tact and did not go beyond them....JUST ONE EXAMPLE in ALL of history would be great!

Tell me how you are going to deal with using soldiers who pledged to protect their own nation and who pledge to give their own live for their own nation but then make them go fight for OTHER nations and give their lives for OTHER nations...not somthing they actually pledged to do.

You dont want to deal with the true difficulties that come with the excuses we make to go in and interferre with peoples very basic and important right to self determine.

ALSO, this ISNT the case at all when it comes to the latin american region. We staged coups against govts who were popularly backed and supported and replaced them with brutal human rights abusing regimes. We cant even HIDE behind humanitarian excuses in these instances. We cant pretend we paid people to kidnap someone because it would "save lives" or for any sort of altruistic reason at all.

How bout we face up to our horrific abuse and violation of our neighbors and the suffering and death this has created in those nations? Talking about Darfur isnt going to change our crimes in the latin american region. We arent morally responsible for what people did in Darfur, we are morally responsible for OUR OWN ACTIONS though and I am not surprised people want to talk about events we arent morally responsible for when confronted with crimes we committed and therefore are morally responsible for.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are far to generalized and I have already had enough experience with you to fully understand you have no clue how to think beyond a very shallow surface level.

What we do have a problem with is using humanitarian excuses to further selfish and imperialist goals. We dont have a clear cut off that aids the humanitarian cause and stops itself from interferring in the self determination of a nation. Whether we like to face the fact or not...we most often PROLONG conflicts and ADD to the bloodshed and body count.

Give me an example in history where a nation went in for purely altruistic reasons and KEPT those reasons in tact and did not go beyond them....JUST ONE EXAMPLE in ALL of history would be great!

Tell me how you are going to deal with using soldiers who pledged to protect their own nation and who pledge to give their own live for their own nation but then make them go fight for OTHER nations and give their lives for OTHER nations...not somthing they actually pledged to do.

You dont want to deal with the true difficulties that come with the excuses we make to go in and interferre with peoples very basic and important right to self determine.

ALSO, this ISNT the case at all when it comes to the latin american region. We staged coups against govts who were popularly backed and supported and replaced them with brutal human rights abusing regimes. We cant even HIDE behind humanitarian excuses in these instances. We cant pretend we paid people to kidnap someone because it would "save lives" or for any sort of altruistic reason at all.

How bout we face up to our horrific abuse and violation of our neighbors and the suffering and death this has created in those nations? Talking about Darfur isnt going to change our crimes in the latin american region. We arent morally responsible for what people did in Darfur, we are morally responsible for OUR OWN ACTIONS though and I am not surprised people want to talk about events we arent morally responsible for when confronted with crimes we committed and therefore are morally responsible for.

So your all for disbanding the UN then?

 

[Ruby]

So your all for disbanding the UN then?

Nope, I am for reforming it and its purpose isnt to do invasions or military exercizes either. It can serve plenty of useful purposes but it needs to be more democratic.

Secondly, it seems you still avoid dealing with the issue at hand....the US crimes towards our neighbors. It seems you just cant face OUR OWN crimes and what consequences that not only has for the victims, but the consequences it has for the US as well.

 

[Shogun]

id take the UN out of America so we can stop lording over it with Boltons and trying to decide who gets to play and who doesn't, ala Mitt Romney.


procede...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I suggest the UN set up its headquarters in Iran.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

I'd love to know your support for that statement, because my understanding is that one is entitled to apply for permanent residence if:

You are the spouse, parent, unmarried child under age 21, the unmarried son or daughter over age 21, the married son or daughter, or the brother or sister of a United States citizen and have a visa petition approved in your behalf.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=54519c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD



So she's guilty of wanting to live and work in this country... doesn't quite count, I think. Nor do her "crimes" particularly concern me.

We don't separate mothers and children...or we didn't used to.

Well I say deport him also. His mother was not a citizen and so therefore he should not be a citizen. I hate our anchor baby laws and I believe that they will be repealed some day. Hopefully by Tancredo when he makes office. It is just another way of rewarding illegals. Now as far as her crimes not concerning you.... Well I had my wallet stolen and found out some guy was using my social security number and found out he was using my number working in this country. I found out too late as he had already gone back to mexico. The headache of straightening things out with social security and our government was great let me tell you I loved every minute of it. I felt that he should lose some fingers for stealing. And then be deported. I am sick and tired of all illegals regaurdless of race,creed,gender yada yada and all that politically correct horseshit! Its time for mass deportation and making them all learn english.

 

[Edward]

totally uncalled for. See, this is the kind of shit i'm talking about. This makes you an easy target and nukes your ability to convey a rational arguement.

Actually it is called for and simply because you don't want to be called what you are doesn't mean that you shouldn't be called a racist along with these racist laws that racists elect racists to make. It is quite rational to point out the motivation behind the law (i.e., segregation laws were racist and those who called them racist were correct in doing so while those who said, "this makes you an easy target and nukes your ability to convey a rational argument" were wrong). I am not going to argue the merits of racist laws when doing so ignores the real motive behind those laws. It is only proper to note the motivation behind the law and to address that. Failure to do this allows racists to live in their own little fantasy land where "they aren't racist." So indeed, it is about "not wanting brown people here." That is why your faction had laws such as the "Chinese Exclusion Act" but when they were no longer allowed you moved to more generic application of your racism.

Perhaps we should claim 100 miles of norther mexico, turn it into the 51st state, and create a spring board for Mexican entry into the US. If Mexico wants to benefit from Nafta while ignoring the very reason America allowed it then they can do without what can become our newest state.

Don't worry. We already invaded Mexico before. Trying it again won't come as a shock to them. I am sure they are willing to protect themselves and based on your comment above THEY WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PREEMPTIVELY INVADE THE UNITED STATES OF IRAQ (oops, I meant America). Wait! Their President isn't named George W. Bush so I think we are safe.

 

[Edward]

The school of americas trains mercenaries and terrorists....and staging COUPS in other nations is most certainly interferring. Financing mercenary groups to terrorize opposition to a US puppets is interferring and is committing terrorism against other nations. Its an example of US STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM. Neg rep away!

Let's not forget Osama bin Laden, trained and armed by his good friend the United States. We have repeatedly supported terrorist organizations especially when we want these organizations to control their countries. These people don't want to hear the truth about what we have done and why we do it (i.e., what was the real reason we nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima). When people fanatically believe in a cause they are able to commit some of the worst atrocities and justify them. This is why our government supports terrorists in different countries and try to prop them up and legitimize them as the government of their countries. In short, "the end justifies the means." This is the kind of attitude that all terrorists have including Osama bin Laden. Why the hell did we support him when we knew what he was? The answer to that is obvious: "the ends justified the means."

US terrorism against the latin american region is a large source of why such illegal immigration even occurs so if you want to impact it...stop the terrorism being committed by our very own govt.

It's not likely to stop so long as the faction that he belongs to is able to gain power in this country. It is them who will do whatever it takes to impose their will on other nations and on other Americans.

If other nations did this to us, we would be SCREAMING terrorism. If they trained and armed mercenary groups to terrorize and kill anyone supporting the candidate they didnt like...yea it would be interferring and a crime. Its a crime and intereferring criminally when we do it as well. The difference is that no nation IS doing that to the US...but we do it to others.

What? Do you mean that no country trained Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh and all the others in an effort to overthrow our government as we have trained those who have sought to overthrow other governments. The reason no nation would do it to us is because we would invade them or nuke them while shouting AMERICA UBER ALLES.

Tell me, how many coups has the US experienced and what foreign nation staged them?

Don't confuse him now. He might have to think critically and we all know that terrorists who hide behind the ballot box don't like to think critically.

 

[Shogun]

Jr high let out early today, skippy?

If you think her post was a valid observation of the motives behind those concerned with illegal immigration then it really is no wonder why you have your ass handed to you in damn near every thread you post in.

indeed.. it's just a fear of brown people!

FOR REAL! you are SO ASTUTE!




of COURSE it's blatant racism to want to reserve the right to determine who can and who cannot enter our country! I mean, Texas is like our own little fucking lynch mob!


not that you could name a single other modern nation who gives up that same right to filter who comes into their country...

I get lots of rep for the pic in my signature, by the way.. It's a popular opinion, it seems.

 

[Shogun]

ps..


I don't know about you but nothing keeps me up late at night scared to fucking death quite like an invasion from MEXICO.....

oh no! it's like MARS ATTACKS but only after the martians sneak into the US for a couple years long enough to send money back to Mars in order to afford a gun and a pair of nikes!


Im telling you, dude.. you help the left about as much as fred phelps helps conservative christianity.