Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[boilermaker55]

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

Anyone who was around in the late '60s early '70s remembers the absolute. crap that GM and Ford and Chrysler were turning out.

It left the door wide open for Japan Inc. to show us how quality cars are made for a reasonable price.

But by then, it was too late for American car makers to come back.

 

[Jarhead]

What planet are you posting from? must be the planet dumbfuck.

nothing you have said in this thread makes sense or has any basis in fact.

Go find out how well GM Management at the time of the collapse, are living today. Most are still Multimillionaires living the dream. But what about GM Employees? How well they doin today?

GM Management engaged in pure evil practices. They are not true Americans. They wanted slaves, so they turned to the Un-American practice of Outsourcing. They should all be ashamed of themselves. But i'm pretty sure they aren't. Too busy living the life of Royalty to give a shit.

sure they are. the rich always do OK. Liberal policies hurt the poor and middle classes, not the rich.

GM Management's evil business practices hurt the poor and middle class. No one in its top Management suffered at all. The top brass are nibbling on the most expensive caviar and sipping on the finest champagne, as we sit here arguing. I can assure you, there are very few if any GM Workers living like that today.

yes, the Obama bailout of GM allowed the executives to continue their lavish lifestyles. BTW, it also allowed the union bosses to continue their lavish lifestyles.

How many Union Bosses are there? And i assure you, they don't live anywhere near the lavish lifestyle the GM top brass live. Let's face it, GM top brass got richer off fucking their Workers. And yes, maybe some Union Bosses did too.

But the average GM Worker isn't sailing around on a private yacht and living in a luxurious mansion. Only GM Workers suffered as a result of the GM collapse.

So the GM workers made a bad decision when they opted to work for GM.

Shit happens. You make choices and sometimes they do not pan out the way you hoped. Its called life. Personal responsibility.

I did not want to get fired again, so I started my own company. I did not see me a victim of "the man". I saw it that I did not choose the right employer.

 

[Mr Natural]

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

The lazy, overpaid worker of course.

 

[boilermaker55]

Oh absolutely. But you never think past your hatred so it was expected.
One factor and only one factor was involved.
Yours is a Stupid answer!

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

The lazy, overpaid worker of course.

 

[Jarhead]

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

The lazy, overpaid worker of course.

You claim we call them lazy. We don't. But spin is all you have.

 

[Jarhead]

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

Anyone who was around in the late '60s early '70s remembers the absolute. crap that GM and Ford and Chrysler were turning out.

It left the door wide open for Japan Inc. to show us how quality cars are made for a reasonable price.

But by then, it was too late for American car makers to come back.

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

Anyone who was around in the late '60s early '70s remembers the absolute. crap that GM and Ford and Chrysler were turning out.

It left the door wide open for Japan Inc. to show us how quality cars are made for a reasonable price.

But by then, it was too late for American car makers to come back.

Government intervention.

If they let GM fall, as they should have, Ford would have reaped the rewards; a new auto company may have filled the void as well.

 

[boilermaker55]

Once again, you have no idea about which you speak.
The evidence is there and you use it all the time. Ignorance makes you ignorant.
Lets try a clue.
Try to think what happens when a company like GM or Ford have a concept for a new automobile.
What do you think the line of progression is with the design until it is finalized.
Clue number one.

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

The lazy, overpaid worker of course.

You claim we call them lazy. We don't. But spin is all you have.

 

[danielpalos]

Why not simply reserve labor through a form of minimum wage instead?

 

[HenryBHough]

Not content with closing restaurants through minimum wage edicts, Obama set out to finish the job.

Proposes mandatory seat belts, shoulder harnesses for restaurant chairs plus airbags for those seated at lunch counters.

 

[Redfish]

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

Anyone who was around in the late '60s early '70s remembers the absolute. crap that GM and Ford and Chrysler were turning out.

It left the door wide open for Japan Inc. to show us how quality cars are made for a reasonable price.

But by then, it was too late for American car makers to come back.

Where should the real blame be focused during this tumultuous period in American car manufacturing?

Anyone who was around in the late '60s early '70s remembers the absolute. crap that GM and Ford and Chrysler were turning out.

It left the door wide open for Japan Inc. to show us how quality cars are made for a reasonable price.

But by then, it was too late for American car makers to come back.

Government intervention.

If they let GM fall, as they should have, Ford would have reaped the rewards; a new auto company may have filled the void as well.

What would have happened---------------GM would have gone thru bankruptcy, the creditors would have gotten some portion of what they were owed. The company would have reorganized into several smaller more efficient units------------Chevy, Cadilac, GMC, etc. Each of those new companies would have had to have a union representation vote of their employees---------------and that scared the shit out of the UAW and obama because they might lose members and their dues. So, obozo worked a bailout to save the UAW, not to save GM, to save the union.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

Does this mean that prostitutes also have to up their rates to 15 an hr?

Obviously you've never heard of factors Prostitutes contend with, like health services, etc.. but more importantly WHERE are there prostitutes at
$15/hour???

Barney Frank will do it for $12.50 an hr.

 

[thereisnospoon]

At the risk of injecting common sense where it might be terribly out of place, what's wrong with Seattle trying this?

The implementation is incremental. If it appears it isn't working to a net benefit they can repeal the future increases. Why settle for an unsatisfactory status quo just because your ideas for change might not work?

When have the Liberals ever rescinded one of their stupid ideas?

Isn't the much better thing to do is for the government just to leave things alone and let the free labor market establish the appropriate wage for the specific job skill? That concept is called freedom.

Why does the government need to do anything?

If somebody isn't making enough money then they need to go elsewhere. If everybody does that then the businesses will have to pay more money to attract workers. Everything will balance out over time. The government needs to stay out of it.

I agree to disagree to the extent the playing field is unequal between labor and capitalists. There is no employment ethic to complement a work ethic as that form of equality, even in Right to Work States.

Employees are not capitalists?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Don't worry, this will all blow over in time. The greedy wankers bitchin & moanin now, will learn to deal with paying workers higher wages. They'll get over it and move on.

And there will be no sudden rash of Businesses closing down because of higher wages. And those that do, were already headed that way anyway. Right now it's all about the greedy wankas expressing their outrage. But it'll pass. Bet on it.

Keep saying that to convince yourself that you're correct.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey look, if you can't or won't pay someone a decent wage, you don't belong in business. Employees are not volunteers. They have bills to pay and children to take care of too. They're not there to do volunteer work so you can become wealthier. They're in it for the same reason you are. It's the $$$. So if you don't wanna pay em, it's time to close up shop.

Everyone in America is in it for themselves. No one's gonna work for shite wages just so you can become wealthy and successful. That's just not gonna happen. The only suggestion would be, to hire family members and hope they do the work for lower wages. Kinda like volunteers helpin a loved one out. Otherwise, you gotta pay. It is what it is.

Very well stated. Thanks. Employers pay what they have to pay, and in most cases, not a penny more. With rare exception, they pay the going rate for location and type of work performed ( job title ).

Yeah, workers are not volunteers. They're in it for the $$$, just as business owners are. They're not gonna settle for shite wages just so a business owner can be wealthy and successful. That's not how it works. They have bills and families to take care of. If a business doesn't wanna pay a decent wage, that business needs to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be.

The business will pay the prevailing market wages.
Businesses are not psychiatrist's offices. They are not Dear Abby or Dr Phil. The employee's issues with bills, kids, etc are not the problem of the business. Employees shall leave their drama at home.
Now, as explained previously. Labor is part of a contract between worker and employer. The employer offers a wage the employee agrees to the wage provided they complete assigned tasks to the best of their ability in accordance with the terms and conditions set by the employer.
Pay tv, cell phones, steak dinners, groceries, etc are the employee's problem.
Define "decent' wage.

Looks like Workers may get to enjoy some steak dinners for once. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you're running a successful business, you should be able to pay your workers a decent wage. No excuses.

No workers are gonna work for shite wages just so their Employer can be successful and wealthier. That's just not how it works. They work because they have bills to pay and children to take care of. It's about the $$. So you'll either pay up, or close up shop. That's the way it is, and should be.

Define "workers"..
Define "decent wage"..
What makes you think a low skilled entry level worker should be paid far above his or her market rate?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey look, if you can't or won't pay someone a decent wage, you don't belong in business. Employees are not volunteers. They have bills to pay and children to take care of too. They're not there to do volunteer work so you can become wealthier. They're in it for the same reason you are. It's the $$$. So if you don't wanna pay em, it's time to close up shop.

Everyone in America is in it for themselves. No one's gonna work for shite wages just so you can become wealthy and successful. That's just not gonna happen. The only suggestion would be, to hire family members and hope they do the work for lower wages. Kinda like volunteers helpin a loved one out. Otherwise, you gotta pay. It is what it is.

Very well stated. Thanks. Employers pay what they have to pay, and in most cases, not a penny more. With rare exception, they pay the going rate for location and type of work performed ( job title ).

Yeah, workers are not volunteers. They're in it for the $$$, just as business owners are. They're not gonna settle for shite wages just so a business owner can be wealthy and successful. That's not how it works. They have bills and families to take care of. If a business doesn't wanna pay a decent wage, that business needs to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be.

The business will pay the prevailing market wages.
Businesses are not psychiatrist's offices. They are not Dear Abby or Dr Phil. The employee's issues with bills, kids, etc are not the problem of the business. Employees shall leave their drama at home.
Now, as explained previously. Labor is part of a contract between worker and employer. The employer offers a wage the employee agrees to the wage provided they complete assigned tasks to the best of their ability in accordance with the terms and conditions set by the employer.
Pay tv, cell phones, steak dinners, groceries, etc are the employee's problem.
Define "decent' wage.

Looks like Workers may get to enjoy some steak dinners for once. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you're running a successful business, you should be able to pay your workers a decent wage. No excuses.

No workers are gonna work for shite wages just so their Employer can be successful and wealthier. That's just not how it works. They work because they have bills to pay and children to take care of. It's about the $$. So you'll either pay up, or close up shop. That's the way it is, and should be.

But it's not. So stop insisting.
Low wage workers doing entry level jobs should have very low expectations.
And business will always find people to do the work.
The reason why unskilled or low skilled worker pay rates are set is because the marketplace is full of low or unskilled people.
Here's a simple solution for the un/low skilled...go to school or learn a marketable skill. They then can give themselves a pay raise.
That IS how it works. And will always be the way it should work....
Oh and the steak? The people that improve their skill set or education get those. Because they earned it. Not due to some idiotic government mandate.
Because you see, businesses will find ways around grossly inflated wages mandated by government
So you can just drop it now....You cannot win this argument.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey look, if you can't or won't pay someone a decent wage, you don't belong in business. Employees are not volunteers. They have bills to pay and children to take care of too. They're not there to do volunteer work so you can
become wealthier. They're in it for the same reason you are. It's the $$$. So if you don't wanna pay em, it's time to close up shop.

Everyone in America is in it for themselves. No one's gonna work for shite wages just so you can become wealthy and successful. That's just not gonna happen. The only suggestion would be, to hire family members and hope they do the work for lower wages. Kinda like volunteers helpin a loved one out. Otherwise, you gotta pay. It is what it is.

Very well stated. Thanks. Employers pay what they have to pay, and in most cases, not a penny more. With rare exception, they pay the going rate for location and type of work performed ( job title ).

its called supply and demand.

Pay, or go belly-up. There's no crying in Business. It's the American Way.

now you are just being ridiculous...

Nope, being realistic. Can't hang with the big dogs, get off the porch. You can't or won't pay, you shouldn't be in business.

Another example of ridiculous.
Here's why. You as of yet have offered a single example of what id "fair", "decent" or whichever descriptor you wish to choose.
Look. One more time for the hopelessly dense. Wages are set by the marketplace. No matter what government does or mandates, business will not exceed the prevailing rates. Period.
You appear to lack the ability to grasp this concept.
Or you simply ignore it.....

 

[thereisnospoon]

its called supply and demand.

Pay, or go belly-up. There's no crying in Business. It's the American Way.

Yes, businesses must pay what it takes to get employees. Fast food workers here start above minimum wage because thats what the market demands.

The market should set the price of labor, not some beaurocrats in DC.

Like it or not, you need unskilled and skilled workers. Your Business can't survive without them. So if you're not willing to pay, it's time for you to close your Business and go do something else. It wasn't meant to be. It's thinning the herd. It's survival of the fittest.

Hey genius...There is an endless supply of low skilled workers. Every single fast food restaurant, dept store and convenience store employs them. And for every one that thinks like you, there are 10 more willing to roll that asshole across the parking lot to take their job.

How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

 

[danielpalos]

At the risk of injecting common sense where it might be terribly out of place, what's wrong with Seattle trying this?

The implementation is incremental. If it appears it isn't working to a net benefit they can repeal the future increases. Why settle for an unsatisfactory status quo just because your ideas for change might not work?

When have the Liberals ever rescinded one of their stupid ideas?

Isn't the much better thing to do is for the government just to leave things alone and let the free labor market establish the appropriate wage for the specific job skill? That concept is called freedom.

Why does the government need to do anything?

If somebody isn't making enough money then they need to go elsewhere. If everybody does that then the businesses will have to pay more money to attract workers. Everything will balance out over time. The government needs to stay out of it.

I agree to disagree to the extent the playing field is unequal between labor and capitalists. There is no employment ethic to complement a work ethic as that form of equality, even in Right to Work States.

Employees are not capitalists?

not if we have to quibble any distinction between true capital-ists and true labor.

 

[sealybobo]

Nah, it won't. Folks will eat out regardless.

Sure but since it will cost more they will eat out less thereby making many employees unnecessary

that is easily solved by mandating that the peoples need to eat out a certain number of times per year

or face serious consequences from the government for failing to do so

Or let people write off dine out.

 

[danielpalos]

Very well stated. Thanks. Employers pay what they have to pay, and in most cases, not a penny more. With rare exception, they pay the going rate for location and type of work performed ( job title ).

its called supply and demand.

Pay, or go belly-up. There's no crying in Business. It's the American Way.

now you are just being ridiculous...

Nope, being realistic. Can't hang with the big dogs, get off the porch. You can't or won't pay, you shouldn't be in business.

Another example of ridiculous.
Here's why. You as of yet have offered a single example of what id "fair", "decent" or whichever descriptor you wish to choose.
Look. One more time for the hopelessly dense. Wages are set by the marketplace. No matter what government does or mandates, business will not exceed the prevailing rates. Period.
You appear to lack the ability to grasp this concept.
Or you simply ignore it.....

Hypothetically and in that alternative, simply reserving labor at the rock bottom cost of a form of minimum wage that clears our poverty guidelines; would fix that Standard for wages in markets for labor.