Bright idea for saving money on your water heating bill.

[justoffal]

I've worked in and around the energy industry most of my life. I've met a lot of bright people both in the operations and design fields of my profession. It pays to network with people because human ingenuity tends to be more broadly applied if you have a greater number of inputs. Over the years I've collected a number of excellent suggestions that I put to use around my house to help with energy savings.

Here's one I'm thinking of trying so I'm throwing it out they had to see what anyone thinks about it. With the arrival of the new flexible piping called PEX many things are now possible that we're not previously possible.

A friend of mine put a copper to Pex take off on the input of his hot water heater running it up to his attic which is very hot in the summer. A three-way valve with a drain plug instantly winterizes this assembly. In the attic the pex runs along the entire side of the house hung on a steel rod as a long coil. It then returns back down to the cellar to the intake of the water heater having picked up 40 to 50° of heat from its original 65 to 70° city water supply. I'm thinking about trying this. Of course the peril herein is that the pex in the Attic could develop a leak and leak all over your ceiling. Still it seems like it might be worth a try.

Jo

 

[Donald H]

I've worked in and around the energy industry most of my life. I've met a lot of bright people both in the operations and design fields of my profession. It pays to network with people because human ingenuity tends to be more broadly applied if you have a greater number of inputs. Over the years I've collected a number of excellent suggestions that I put to use around my house to help with energy savings.

Here's one I'm thinking of trying so I'm throwing it out they had to see what anyone thinks about it. With the arrival of the new flexible piping called PEX many things are now possible that we're not previously possible.

A friend of mine put a copper to Pex take off on the input of his hot water heater running it up to his attic which is very hot in the summer. A three-way valve with a drain plug instantly winterizes this assembly. In the attic the pex runs along the entire side of the house hung on a steel rod as a long coil. It then returns back down to the cellar to the intake of the water heater having picked up 40 to 50° of heat from its original 65 to 70° city water supply. I'm thinking about trying this. Of course the peril herein is that the pex in the Attic could develop a leak and leak all over your ceiling. Still it seems like it might be worth a try.

Jo

Why Pex in the attic and not copper? And if you run Pex outside then consider UV.

 

[progressive hunter]

Why Pex in the attic and not copper? And if you run Pex outside then consider UV.

have you priced copper lately??

 

[justoffal]

Why Pex in the attic and not copper? And if you run Pex outside then consider UV.

Yes the copper would be better but it's so much more expensive and harder to work with. Using pex you can get an unlimited length and work with it rather easily simply using shark bite push to fit couplings. The whole job can be done in less than 2 hours. Running copper would require a lot of measuring and cutting but still I agree the copper would be better. And no I would not run the pex out in the sunlight. I have an enormous attic.with 45° pitch sides making the total surface area exposed to sunlight roughly 166% of the deck area. It is a massive heat machine. Running 100 ft of pex ln a coil through this environment makes for a rather efficient heating process prior to entry into the water heater. There's no pumps I'm moving parts just city water pressure doing the job.

 

[progressive hunter]

one of these would be easier than trying to string pex through the attic,

 

[justoffal]

one of these would be easier than trying to string pex through the attic,

Pretty neat they also seem to be giving shade to the air conditioning unit which is a smart move.

 

[toobfreak]

A friend of mine put a copper to Pex take off on the input of his hot water heater running it up to his attic which is very hot in the summer. A three-way valve with a drain plug instantly winterizes this assembly. In the attic the pex runs along the entire side of the house hung on a steel rod as a long coil. It then returns back down to the cellar to the intake of the water heater having picked up 40 to 50° of heat from its original 65 to 70° city water supply. I'm thinking about trying this. Of course the peril herein is that the pex in the Attic could develop a leak and leak all over your ceiling. Still it seems like it might be worth a try.

Two things:

1. I'd never run PEX in my attic as the stuff leaks at the drop of a hat.
2. It takes more calories to raise the temperature of HOT water than it does cold water!

You can prove that by putting both hot and cold water on your stove and seeing which one boils fastest!

 

[progressive hunter]

Two things:

1. I'd never run PEX in my attic as the stuff leaks at the drop of a hat.
2. It takes more calories to raise the temperature of HOT water than it does cold water!

You can prove that by putting both hot and cold water on your stove and seeing which one boils fastest!

my entire house is pex and hasnt leaked in the ten yrs its been there, so not sure where you get it leaks at the drop of a hat,,

where did you come up with it cost more to eat hot water than cold water?? if its already hot it doesnt take much to heat it a little more,, its not about bringing it to a boil,,
put a pot of 60 degree water on a stove next to one thats 100 degrees and see which gets to 110 faster??

 

[The Duke]

one of these would be easier than trying to string pex through the attic,

Actually NOT.

 

[progressive hunter]

Actually NOT.

actually not what??

 

[justoffal]

my entire house is pex and hasnt leaked in the ten yrs its been there, so not sure where you get it leaks at the drop of a hat,,

where did you come up with it cost more to eat hot water than cold water?? if its already hot it doesnt take much to heat it a little more,, its not about bringing it to a boil,,
put a pot of 60 degree water on a stove next to one thats 100 degrees and see which gets to 110 faster??

I think what he's driving at is that the heat transfer process is faster with the cold water but with the already still at BTUs you would need less energy to get to where you want to go. Coldwater would require more energy of course.

 

[progressive hunter]

I think what he's driving at is that the heat transfer process is faster with the cold water but with the already still at BTUs you would need less energy to get to where you want to go. Coldwater would require more energy of course.

the sun is free energy and the goal isnt to bring to a boil but to raise it maybe 40 degrees,,

 

[The Duke]

actually not what??

That thing's a lot of work vs. runnin' a loop or 2 of Pex up in the attic.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I've worked in and around the energy industry most of my life. I've met a lot of bright people both in the operations and design fields of my profession. It pays to network with people because human ingenuity tends to be more broadly applied if you have a greater number of inputs. Over the years I've collected a number of excellent suggestions that I put to use around my house to help with energy savings.

Here's one I'm thinking of trying so I'm throwing it out they had to see what anyone thinks about it. With the arrival of the new flexible piping called PEX many things are now possible that we're not previously possible.

A friend of mine put a copper to Pex take off on the input of his hot water heater running it up to his attic which is very hot in the summer. A three-way valve with a drain plug instantly winterizes this assembly. In the attic the pex runs along the entire side of the house hung on a steel rod as a long coil. It then returns back down to the cellar to the intake of the water heater having picked up 40 to 50° of heat from its original 65 to 70° city water supply. I'm thinking about trying this. Of course the peril herein is that the pex in the Attic could develop a leak and leak all over your ceiling. Still it seems like it might be worth a try.

Jo

What is the initial investment cost to run all the extra piping?

 

[toobfreak]

my entire house is pex and hasnt leaked in the ten yrs its been there, so not sure where you get it leaks at the drop of a hat,,

Because PEX just plugs/snaps together, all it takes is a little wrong stress for it not to seal right. Years ago I built a bypass valve assembly for the coolant pump on a milling machine using PEX and all I've had with it are leaks.

where did you come up with it cost more to eat hot water than cold water??

I never said a word about cost. Damn, can't no one reads here? I said it takes more BTUs to heat hot water than cold because hot water is closer to the temp of the heat so there is less rapid thermal transfer. It takes more work to heat hot water than cold because the hot water is trying harder to reduce its energy state back to the surroundings.

 

[progressive hunter]

That thing's a lot of work vs. runnin' a loop or 2 of Pex up in the attic.

so standing in your garage screwing plywood together and then punching a hole into the basement is harder than wiggling through a hot attic trying to staple pipe to rafters and then tearing out a wall to route the pipe down into the basement,, more so if its a two story house??

I will go with my option,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Because PEX just plugs/snaps together, all it takes is a little wrong stress for it not to seal right. Years ago I built a bypass valve assembly for the coolant pump on a milling machine using PEX and all I've had with it are leaks.


I never said a word about cost. Damn, can't no one reads here? I said it takes more BTUs to heat hot water than cold because hot water is closer to the temp of the heat so there is less rapid thermal transfer. It takes more work to heat hot water than cold because the hot water is trying harder to reduce its energy state back to the surroundings.

my guess your problem with pex is more about you than the pex,, and it doesnt snap together, you can use sharkbites that plugs into it if you want but I go with the crimp mode for pex 1,, pex 2 is superior to it and it holds itself together,,

I have ran thousands of feet and have never had a single leak,,


costs and calories as you put it are about the same,, its about the energy it takes to achieve the desired goal,,

do you take showers with boiling water or like the rest of us at about 100-110 degrees??

 

[justoffal]

What is the initial investment cost to run all the extra piping?

Well the The PEX is about 50 bucks for that amount at home Depot. You would need at least four push to fit shark bite fittings.. The pex to copper are about 7 bucks a piece......and either a three-way valve or an extra T and two quarter turn valves. I don't know I'd say the whole thing is about 120 bucks. I have an older house so the pipe chase is a clear shot from the cellar right up to the attic.

 

[progressive hunter]

Well the The PEX is about 50 bucks for that amount at home Depot. You would need at least four push to fit shark bite fittings.. The pex to copper how about 7 bucks a piece......and either a three-way valve or an extra t and two quarter turn valves. I don't know I'd say the whole thing is about 120 bucks.

the real cost would come from tearing out a wall to route it into the basement,, more if its a 2 story house,,

 

[justoffal]

the real cost would come from tearing out a wall to route it into the basement,, more if its a 2 story house,,

I'm pretty fortunate there I have a pipe chase with visual clearance from the cellar to the attic.. but yes I could see where that would be a problem in some homes.