Bundy Caught Lying about "Ancestral Rights"

[koshergrl]

You get comfy with discomfort. You and all the other progressive pukes who stand by and watch people be abused.

Me, I'll still stand for what is right.

 

[Nutz]

You get comfy with discomfort. You and all the other progressive pukes who stand by and watch people be abused.

Me, I'll still stand for what is right.

What is right? Can you explain to me how the Bundy's are right in this situation. No flaming, just trying to understand both sides. Please keep it relevant, if you choose to reply.

 

[RKMBrown]

I said it before. I'll say it again. Bundy's claim seemed dubious at best even before I read about the family forebears coming in 1948. THAT is plain funny. But the Federal reaction also struck me as being stupid.

On the other hand, 20+ years of "litigation" is silly.

Thus, what I say is the Federal authorities apparently need to arrest Bundy and charge him with contempt of court.

Do it. Come on just do it. Make him a Martyr.

I said arrest him, not crucify him.

Tell me: did you read ANY of the court material about his never ending bogus case?

He's lost and lost and lost. He's willing to USE the FEDERAL judicial system but then maintains that he is not bound to comply with the decisions and orders of that very system? Doesn't that seem just a little two-faced of him?

He is not a person who is playing with a full deck.

No, I've not read it. I have no doubt that the feds probably have the law on their side. I'm very sure the feds would have used due process to take our grazing lands away from our cows to protect desert turtles as displacement for desert turtle habitats that are being used to build solar power farms. For all they have to do is show up and say hey we're the law and these other folks that were the stewards of the land said it was cool and took the money. Thus rancher's rights will be viewed as infringed but with due process, therefore "constitutional."

But I don't like the 14th amendment due process clause at all. And I don't like seeing an entire ranching community run out of town to be displaced in a shell game that includes a Chinese solar farm and desert turtles. I mean really? We're gonna mitigate turtle displacement for a Chinese solar farm funded with my federal tax dollars, with the end result being an entire ranching community run out of town?

These carbon tax & habitat mitigation plans that shell game the little guy out of business really suck. I don't like it at all..

A minor rule change to the dumb ass turtle habitat displacement rules would've meant the ranchers could continue ranching so long as they made efforts to not stomp the shit out of the baby turtle nests.

 

[bodecea]

Marty is spot on.

Bundy's ancestors had grazing rights long before the BLM existed. Big Government has continuously changed the rules in order to drive the benefits of property to its cronies.

As someone said...the BLM doesn't own the land, it is the branch of the feds that manage the land....it is the feds that own it.

 

[RKMBrown]

You get comfy with discomfort. You and all the other progressive pukes who stand by and watch people be abused.

Me, I'll still stand for what is right.

What is right? Can you explain to me how the Bundy's are right in this situation. No flaming, just trying to understand both sides. Please keep it relevant, if you choose to reply.

What is right is figuring out how the ranchers can go back to ranching rather than blindly running them all out of business to save some turtles who are being displaced by a federally funded Chinese solar farm.

 

[boedicca]

Marty is spot on.

Bundy's ancestors had grazing rights long before the BLM existed. Big Government has continuously changed the rules in order to drive the benefits of property to its cronies.

Thats what happens. Rules change. Amendments get added to the constitution. Nothing stays stagnant. Get comfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable. The world is constantly changing.

IOW, you advocate for Mob Rule and getting rid of the Constitution.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[RKMBrown]

Marty is spot on.

Bundy's ancestors had grazing rights long before the BLM existed. Big Government has continuously changed the rules in order to drive the benefits of property to its cronies.

As someone said...the BLM doesn't own the land, it is the branch of the feds that manage the land....it is the feds that own it.

Who is this "feds" clan or this fed person that owns most our land? Here I was thinking the feds were our employees now you say they own all this shit.

 

[Nutz]

You get comfy with discomfort. You and all the other progressive pukes who stand by and watch people be abused.

Me, I'll still stand for what is right.

What is right? Can you explain to me how the Bundy's are right in this situation. No flaming, just trying to understand both sides. Please keep it relevant, if you choose to reply.

What is right is figuring out how the ranchers can go back to ranching rather than blindly running them all out of business to save some turtles who are being displaced by a federally funded Chinese solar farm.

Not paying grazing fees is right? Seems to me you are rationalizing a reason to support the Bundy's and ignoring the core issue.

 

[boedicca]

Marty is spot on.

Bundy's ancestors had grazing rights long before the BLM existed. Big Government has continuously changed the rules in order to drive the benefits of property to its cronies.

As someone said...the BLM doesn't own the land, it is the branch of the feds that manage the land....it is the feds that own it.

Riddle me this: Why should the Feds own 84% of Nevada?

For what purpose other than to enrich their cronies?

 

[whitehall]

Can it be that the Bundy family lived in the freaking area since the 1870's without incurring the wrath of the picky lefties?

 

[bodecea]

Marty is spot on.

Bundy's ancestors had grazing rights long before the BLM existed. Big Government has continuously changed the rules in order to drive the benefits of property to its cronies.

As someone said...the BLM doesn't own the land, it is the branch of the feds that manage the land....it is the feds that own it.

Who is this "feds" clan or this fed person that owns most our land? Here I was thinking the feds were our employees now you say they own all this shit.

Who paid the Mexicans for the land?

 

[Statistikhengst]

I gotta say, with so much extra work last week, I pretty much ignored this story, so this is all really fresh for me to read.

So, I just wiki'd this:

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The dude has been in a dispute with the BLM for 20 years over this and has 1 million in unpaid fees yet to pay. Every time he went to court about this, he lost.

Now, if there were cases of other ranchers who were given preferential treatment by the BLM over him, I think I could understand his anger, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

So, what do we have:

-We have a dude who has been deliberately letting his cattle graze on land that is not his. I bet that most of us know what would have happened to him had he done this during the days of the "Wild West".

-We have a dude who refuses to pay back-fees that he owes.

-We have a dude who was literally PROHIBITED from having his cattle graze on federal lands starting in 1998, because of the ongoing dispute from 1993. So, after that and almost 16 years of warnings, the feds took his cattle.


The Wiki says this about Rangelands:

Rangelands are distinguished from pasture lands because they grow primarily native vegetation, rather than plants established by humans. In 1848, the United States purchased a large expanse of land in the south-western region of the United States from Mexico, known as the Mexican Cession.[7][8] Nevada and the Bunkerville range are part of that land. Since then, the United States government has continuously owned the land in Nevada, which became a state in 1864.[7][8] Federal rangelands in Nevada are managed principally by either Bureau of Land Management or United States Forest Service. Ranchers may lease or get permits to use portions of this public rangeland and pay a fee based on the number and type of livestock and the period for which they are on the land.[9]

So, why did the dude never pay his fees? It's not his land, the land where he has been letting his cattle graze. He has been blatantly, and I mean, blatantly breaking the law for 20 years now.

Were the dude a Leftie, I bet the Right would be screaming "deadbeat", "OWS" and all that jazz.

Face it: the dude is a full-loser and he is going to lose this battle when all is said and done.

All he had to do was to pay his fees - or - find other land for his cattle to go graze.

It ain't rocket science, really. Legally, Bundy is clearly in the wrong.

But for people who think the Gubbermint is nothing but ZOG evil, he is like a big hero.

Once again, the Right is looking for a "cause celebre" to show 'look, here's a rugged individual who shares our values". You know, like Joe the Plumber. Oh, wait, he now took a job with the Auto industry...

 

[Statistikhengst]

Can it be that the Bundy family lived in the freaking area since the 1870's without incurring the wrath of the picky lefties?

Nope. Already been mentioned that they bought the land near this in 1948.

 

[RKMBrown]

What is right? Can you explain to me how the Bundy's are right in this situation. No flaming, just trying to understand both sides. Please keep it relevant, if you choose to reply.

What is right is figuring out how the ranchers can go back to ranching rather than blindly running them all out of business to save some turtles who are being displaced by a federally funded Chinese solar farm.

Not paying grazing fees is right? Seems to me you are rationalizing a reason to support the Bundy's and ignoring the core issue.

Not true.

You say the core issue is bundy not OBEYING the law.

I say the core issue is ABUSIVE laws and regulations implemented by our government, which were in this case, designed to purposefully run all the ranchers out of Business to make a deal with china and some "greenies" who demanded the feds save the desert turtles if they do the deal with china.

Who is defending the right of the American citizen to not have their jobs displaced by it's own damn government?

 

[Statistikhengst]

BTW, pretty thought provoking article:


Cliven Bundy got one thing right: His claim is absurd, but challenging property law is not - Salon.com

 

[RKMBrown]

I gotta say, with so much extra work last week, I pretty much ignored this story, so this is all really fresh for me to read.

So, I just wiki'd this:

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The dude has been in a dispute with the BLM for 20 years over this and has 1 million in unpaid fees yet to pay. Every time he went to court about this, he lost.

Now, if there were cases of other ranchers who were given preferential treatment by the BLM over him, I think I could understand his anger, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

So, what do we have:

-We have a dude who has been deliberately letting his cattle graze on land that is not his. I bet that most of us know what would have happened to him had he done this during the days of the "Wild West".

-We have a dude who refuses to pay back-fees that he owes.

-We have a dude who was literally PROHIBITED from having his cattle graze on federal lands starting in 1998, because of the ongoing dispute from 1993. So, after that and almost 16 years of warnings, the feds took his cattle.


The Wiki says this about Rangelands:

Rangelands are distinguished from pasture lands because they grow primarily native vegetation, rather than plants established by humans. In 1848, the United States purchased a large expanse of land in the south-western region of the United States from Mexico, known as the Mexican Cession.[7][8] Nevada and the Bunkerville range are part of that land. Since then, the United States government has continuously owned the land in Nevada, which became a state in 1864.[7][8] Federal rangelands in Nevada are managed principally by either Bureau of Land Management or United States Forest Service. Ranchers may lease or get permits to use portions of this public rangeland and pay a fee based on the number and type of livestock and the period for which they are on the land.[9]

So, why did the dude never pay his fees? It's not his land, the land where he has been letting his cattle graze. He has been blatantly, and I mean, blatantly breaking the law for 20 years now.

Were the dude a Leftie, I bet the Right would be screaming "deadbeat", "OWS" and all that jazz.

Face it: the dude is a full-loser and he is going to lose this battle when all is said and done.

All he had to do was to pay his fees - or - find other land for his cattle to go graze.

It ain't rocket science, really. Legally, Bundy is clearly in the wrong.

But for people who think the Gubbermint is nothing but ZOG evil, he is like a big hero.

Once again, the Right is looking for a "cause celebre" to show 'look, here's a rugged individual who shares our values". You know, like Joe the Plumber. Oh, wait, he now took a job with the Auto industry...

Since you are new to the issue I'll hold off on cursing at you for a sec. There were 61 ranchers. They ran off 60 of the ranchers to supposedly mitigate prime desert turtle land that was being used to build a Chinese solar power farm at another location. This 1 rancher is the last man standing.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Do it. Come on just do it. Make him a Martyr.

I said arrest him, not crucify him.

Tell me: did you read ANY of the court material about his never ending bogus case?

He's lost and lost and lost. He's willing to USE the FEDERAL judicial system but then maintains that he is not bound to comply with the decisions and orders of that very system? Doesn't that seem just a little two-faced of him?

He is not a person who is playing with a full deck.

So did the other Rancher who's name is Hage.
Federal Judge Rules for Property Rights, Smacks Down Abusive Feds

He lost and lost and lost each court case until [finally] after 30 years he won.
That is what is the problem when you fight the Feds in court they have a unlimited supply of money unlike the individual.

True enough. As I ALSO noted, if the court case is not completely over, then it is even worse that the Feds are acting in such a heavy handed fashion. I don't know if Bundy is still going through any appeals or not. I looked at SOME of the court material, but not a lot of it. 20+ years is an awfully long time to press a stupid claim if your own legal claims are bullshit. And it seems that some of his legal claims WERE bullshit all along.

I suspect (based on what I have gleaned so far) that Bundy has lost for good reason and that, in the end, he will come out the loser, still. That said, there seems very little good reason for the Feds to be sending in snipers and seizing cattle. A simple charge of contempt of court or the like would appear to suffice.

The actual story seems complicated but it's not impenetrable.

Plus, there's a link there to some of the court papers.

The Saga of Bundy Ranch--Federal Power, Rule of Law and Averting Potential Bloodshed

 

[RKMBrown]

As someone said...the BLM doesn't own the land, it is the branch of the feds that manage the land....it is the feds that own it.

Who is this "feds" clan or this fed person that owns most our land? Here I was thinking the feds were our employees now you say they own all this shit.

Who paid the Mexicans for the land?

American tax payers?

 

[Statistikhengst]

I gotta say, with so much extra work last week, I pretty much ignored this story, so this is all really fresh for me to read.

So, I just wiki'd this:

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The dude has been in a dispute with the BLM for 20 years over this and has 1 million in unpaid fees yet to pay. Every time he went to court about this, he lost.

Now, if there were cases of other ranchers who were given preferential treatment by the BLM over him, I think I could understand his anger, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

So, what do we have:

-We have a dude who has been deliberately letting his cattle graze on land that is not his. I bet that most of us know what would have happened to him had he done this during the days of the "Wild West".

-We have a dude who refuses to pay back-fees that he owes.

-We have a dude who was literally PROHIBITED from having his cattle graze on federal lands starting in 1998, because of the ongoing dispute from 1993. So, after that and almost 16 years of warnings, the feds took his cattle.


The Wiki says this about Rangelands:

Rangelands are distinguished from pasture lands because they grow primarily native vegetation, rather than plants established by humans. In 1848, the United States purchased a large expanse of land in the south-western region of the United States from Mexico, known as the Mexican Cession.[7][8] Nevada and the Bunkerville range are part of that land. Since then, the United States government has continuously owned the land in Nevada, which became a state in 1864.[7][8] Federal rangelands in Nevada are managed principally by either Bureau of Land Management or United States Forest Service. Ranchers may lease or get permits to use portions of this public rangeland and pay a fee based on the number and type of livestock and the period for which they are on the land.[9]

So, why did the dude never pay his fees? It's not his land, the land where he has been letting his cattle graze. He has been blatantly, and I mean, blatantly breaking the law for 20 years now.

Were the dude a Leftie, I bet the Right would be screaming "deadbeat", "OWS" and all that jazz.

Face it: the dude is a full-loser and he is going to lose this battle when all is said and done.

All he had to do was to pay his fees - or - find other land for his cattle to go graze.

It ain't rocket science, really. Legally, Bundy is clearly in the wrong.

But for people who think the Gubbermint is nothing but ZOG evil, he is like a big hero.

Once again, the Right is looking for a "cause celebre" to show 'look, here's a rugged individual who shares our values". You know, like Joe the Plumber. Oh, wait, he now took a job with the Auto industry...

Since you are new to the issue I'll hold off on cursing at you for a sec. There were 61 ranchers. They ran off 60 of the ranchers to supposedly mitigate prime desert turtle land that was being used to build a Chinese solar power farm at another location. This 1 rancher is the last man standing.

If you send me links to all the information you can, I am more than willing to look at all of it. I never said that what the man did is morally wrong. I am saying that he is legally wrong, and indeed, he is.

 

[Asclepias]

Can it be that the Bundy family lived in the freaking area since the 1870's without incurring the wrath of the picky lefties?

Doesnt matter. 1864 is the date the ratified Nevada State Constitution says all lands unclaimed were governments land.