Bush and Officials Lied leading up to Iraq war

[steeliniraq]

It's hilarious to revist just how badly RSG was debunked on this thread. He was just pulling raw numbers out of his ass, and making up stuff as he went along....







RSG debunked here on the number of American troops in bosnia/Kosovo…






Next, RSG is again debunked by US Government website. Stabilization operations in Bosnia were turned over to the European Union in 2004, with a small presence of American troops remaining in the country.

Wait, wait, wait, you are comparing Kosovo/Bosnia to Iraq? Come on!!!!! I've been to both and they are nothing alike! Iraq is much more of a fight and it has very little to do with who the president is! If you want to look at who was the president at the time Clinton also led us into Somalia. The ball was dropped all over the battlefield in that little engagement. Is that Clinton's fault? That little engagement with AQ told Bin Laden that if you make the Americans bleed a little they will run. Try fooling someone who is ignorant in the military and presidents who lead them!

 

[mattskramer]

What does your neighbor have to do with Iraq......that's called a false premise.

No. It is called a reasonable comparison. For the sake of comparison, the USA is like my home and Iraq is like my neighbor’s house. What did my neighbor do to me? He does not like me. He broke a promise. He has resources that would benefit me.

In your recent post, you said that we will stay in Iraq because it is vital to us. Using your own reasoning, wouldn’t it be fair to say that I can take my neighbor’s stuff because I think that they would be vital to me?

 

[steeliniraq]

no on suggested that Yugoslavia was a direct threat to the United States. It WAS, however, determined to be a direct threat to the members of NATO. In case you weren't sure, that's a mutual defense treaty that we are a signatory of. So...when there is a threat to any of the countries of NATO, there is, by definition, an agreed upon threat to US interests. Go look on your globe and see how many NATO nations directly border the balkans.

So all im hearing is we can be pimped out to other countries but when it comes to defending or doing something our country see right thats wrong. Thats interesting! If that is your view on how the U.S. military should be run then maybe you should come say that to my guys faces and I will call the ambulance in advance. Nice call! Tell me is it possible that any country in that treaty be allowed to do things that might benefit their country? Defend their country without NATO? Or does everything start and stop with what the heads of NATO say? I have an idea why don't we just get rid of that country called The United States of America and call it NATO?!

 

[maineman]

So all im hearing is we can be pimped out to other countries but when it comes to defending or doing something our country see right thats wrong. Thats interesting! If that is your view on how the U.S. military should be run then maybe you should come say that to my guys faces and I will call the ambulance in advance. Nice call! Tell me is it possible that any country in that treaty be allowed to do things that might benefit their country? Defend their country without NATO? Or does everything start and stop with what the heads of NATO say? I have an idea why don't we just get rid of that country called The United States of America and call it NATO?!

tell me again what imminent threat to America Iraq posed in the spring of 2003?

I'll wait.

 

[mattskramer]

When did the UN become the authority on protecting U.S. interests? As you probably remember the reason the US didn't seek a UN resolution for force, was because of Russia and China. When has the UN ever taken pre-emptive action anyway? I never remember a war when the first people in the warzone had on blue UN helmets, maybe I'm forgetting if I am please remind me.

Look. It is all so simple. We signed the UN Charter. Article 6 of the US constitution say that all treaties made under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land. When we became member of the UN we became answerable to the UN.

It is interesting how so many Republicans will use the allegation that Iraq broke UN resolutions as a reason for us to go to war. Yet, when the UN seems slow to respond or seems not quite ready to go to declare war, we nearly ignore the UN and take care of things ourselves. It is the old double standard and forked tongue way of transacting.

 

[steeliniraq]

tell me again what imminent threat to America Iraq posed in the spring of 2003?

I'll wait.

Go back and read my post again!!! Where did I say Iraq was an imminent threat? Point it out!!!! I did say we should have a right to defend ourselves without having to ask permission from Nato but that wasnt implied to Iraq. I also said we should be able to do whats right and something that benefits our country.

 

[steeliniraq]

Look. It is all so simple. We signed the UN Charter. Article 6 of the US constitution say that all treaties made under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land. When we became member of the UN we became answerable to the UN.

It is interesting how so many Republicans will use the allegation that Iraq broke UN resolutions as a reason for us to go to war. Yet, when the UN seems slow to respond or seems not quite ready to go to declare war, we nearly ignore the UN and take care of things ourselves. It is the old double standard and forked tongue way of transacting.

Have any other countries in the UN every attacked another country without begging permission from the UN?

 

[maineman]

Go back and read my post again!!! Where did I say Iraq was an imminent threat? Point it out!!!! I did say we should have a right to defend ourselves without having to ask permission from Nato but that wasnt implied to Iraq. I also said we should be able to do whats right and something that benefits our country.

and what was in Iraq that we so desperately needed to defend ourselves against in the spring of 2003?

And when we sign treaties...Article VI of the constitution says we have to follow them.... didn't you swear to uphold and defend the constitution? start acting like it. you don't get to pick and chose what in the constitution you get to uphold and defend...you got the whole damned thing.

 

[steeliniraq]

and what was in Iraq that we so desperately needed to defend ourselves against in the spring of 2003?

Ummmm and again where did I say we needed to defend ourselves from Iraq? My point was to counter yours. We should be able to defend our country without asking permission from NATO or the UN. I never said we needed to defend ourselves from Iraq! I do think going into Iraq was the right thing to do but it was for other reasons and not immediate national defense.

 

[maineman]

Ummmm and again where did I say we needed to defend ourselves from Iraq? My point was to counter yours. We should be able to defend our country without asking permission from NATO or the UN. I never said we needed to defend ourselves from Iraq! I do think going into Iraq was the right thing to do but it was for other reasons and not immediate national defense.

where does it say that you get to ignore defending article VI of the constitution? I took the same oath you did. I wore a uniform for a quarter of a century. I never remember that part.

When have we ever asked NATO permission to defend ourselves?

 

[mattskramer]

Have any other countries in the UN every attacked another country without begging permission from the UN?

They probably have, but that does not make it right and does not give us permission to do so. It is irrelevant. I know some people who got away with shoplifting. I suppose that I should shoplift.

 

[steeliniraq]

and what was in Iraq that we so desperately needed to defend ourselves against in the spring of 2003?

And when we sign treaties...Article VI of the constitution says we have to follow them.... didn't you swear to uphold and defend the constitution? start acting like it. you don't get to pick and chose what in the constitution you get to uphold and defend...you got the whole damned thing.

Hmmmm thats interesting. What part of the constitution are you upholding? Once again I am upholding the constitution. I dont pick what wars I get to fight!!! YOU DO!!! YOU THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ELECTED THIS PRESIDENT AS A WHOLE!!!! You think you are sooooooo fucking smart hiding behind your comp. telling me to start acting like I should be upholding the constitution!!! What the fuck have you done? Yea article VI does say that but I doubt our founding fathers meant this as the meaning. Let me ask you this: Do countries in NATO and the UN have things to gain if we do what they tell us? Yea we follow that to a T like you say and this countries burns big man!

 

[steeliniraq]

They probably have, but that does not make it right and does not give us permission to do so. It is irrelevant. I know some people who got away with shoplifting. I suppose that I should shoplift.

Yea or maybe those countries did it because it was in the best interest of their country and had to put their so called "friends" aside to do what was best for them. Just maybe people in NATO or the UN dont want other people in the counsel to do good. Maybe just maybe they are our enemies. Should we uphold what they say if it means destroy those exact liberties they want to destroy? Not so simple in the end is it? Well you seem to know everything so im sure it is. Shoplifting? Poor example.

 

[maineman]

Hmmmm thats interesting. What part of the constitution are you upholding? Once again I am upholding the constitution. I dont pick what wars I get to fight!!! YOU DO!!! YOU THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ELECTED THIS PRESIDENT AS A WHOLE!!!! You think you are sooooooo fucking smart hiding behind your comp. telling me to start acting like I should be upholding the constitution!!! What the fuck have you done? Yea article VI does say that but I doubt our founding fathers meant this as the meaning. Let me ask you this: Do countries in NATO and the UN have things to gain if we do what they tell us? Yea we follow that to a T like you say and this countries burns big man!

I understand that the congress authorized the use of force in Iraq. I understand that the republican party lost control of congress primarily because of that vote. I have never voted for anyone who voted for that resolution and I won't - unless it is down to McCain v. Clinton, in which case I will hold my nose and vote for Clinton. And you openly advocate ignoring our constitution. That is a fact you really can't wiggle away from.

And...it really isn't up to you to interpret the founding fathers. that is what we have a supreme court for.

If we don't like a treaty, we can always abrogate it. until we do, we uphold it because, as the constitution clearly states, that treaty IS the "supreme law of the land"... and those in America who would advocate ignoring the tenets of the constitution are domestic enemies thereof. plain and simple.

 

[jreeves]

No. It is called a reasonable comparison. For the sake of comparison, the USA is like my home and Iraq is like my neighbor’s house. What did my neighbor do to me? He does not like me. He broke a promise. He has resources that would benefit me.

In your recent post, you said that we will stay in Iraq because it is vital to us. Using your own reasoning, wouldn’t it be fair to say that I can take my neighbor’s stuff because I think that they would be vital to me?

Unless your house has a gross domestic product over 3 trillion dollars, has nuclear weapons in it, you have the capitol building in your living room and the white house in your bedroom its a false premise. Unless your neighbor has mass graves in their living room and is gassing their kids upstairs it is a false premise.

 

[jreeves]

and what was in Iraq that we so desperately needed to defend ourselves against in the spring of 2003?

And when we sign treaties...Article VI of the constitution says we have to follow them.... didn't you swear to uphold and defend the constitution? start acting like it. you don't get to pick and chose what in the constitution you get to uphold and defend...you got the whole damned thing.

Look this post comes from a man that thought the CIA is part of the executive branch. When showed that it is an independent agency he gets quite then comes back without acknowleging that he was wrong. Also as I have said before all major intelligence agencies stated Saddam had biological and chemical weapons and coveted a nuclear bomb. That given Saddam's past created urgency. I will admit Bush made huge mistakes in his execution of the war but he was justified in taking action.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Look. It is all so simple. We signed the UN Charter. Article 6 of the US constitution say that all treaties made under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land. When we became member of the UN we became answerable to the UN.

It is interesting how so many Republicans will use the allegation that Iraq broke UN resolutions as a reason for us to go to war. Yet, when the UN seems slow to respond or seems not quite ready to go to declare war, we nearly ignore the UN and take care of things ourselves. It is the old double standard and forked tongue way of transacting.

We did site the relevant UN charter that we agreed to that allowed us to Invade Iraq or are you just to stupid to remember that?

 

[jreeves]

They probably have, but that does not make it right and does not give us permission to do so. It is irrelevant. I know some people who got away with shoplifting. I suppose that I should shoplift.

Man you are full of these false premises why don't you keep your posts based on facts instead of hypotheticals?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We did site the relevant UN charter that we agreed to that allowed us to Invade Iraq or are you just to stupid to remember that?

That also would be why the UN has not officially condemned our invasion because they can NOT.

 

[maineman]

Look this post comes from a man that thought the CIA is part of the executive branch. When showed that it is an independent agency he gets quite then comes back without acknowleging that he was wrong. Also as I have said before all major intelligence agencies stated Saddam had biological and chemical weapons and coveted a nuclear bomb. That given Saddam's past created urgency. I will admit Bush made huge mistakes in his execution of the war but he was justified in taking action.

there are three branches of government. Executive, Legislative, Judicial.

Which branch does the CIA fall under?
Who appoints the DCI?
Who can ask for the DCI's resignation?
Who is the direct superior of the DCI?