California's Brown Signs Bill Permitting Non-Physician Abortions

[WelfareQueen]

Gosnell was a licensed medical doctor. He still did horrible harm to his adult patients (The only issue that matters.) That kind of defeats your argument.

Here's the thing. Most abortions are performed between 8-12 weeks. You guys go on and on about the late term abortions that almost kind of look like a baby, but that's less than 1% of abortions performed, and usually for good medical reasons.

Fact is, trained nurse practioner is as qualified to perform an early abortion as she is to perform thousands of other medical procedures that they do every day.

I mean, shit, you guys don't get upset when midwives deliver babies, even though they aren't doctors.

This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Total BS. I know many PA's that put doctors to SHAME> Just because you have MD,DO behind your name doesn't mean you can do shit. Most can't manage a typical everyday patient for diabetes, heart problems, etc.

There are PA's out there that are MORE competent than most doctors. EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE and the will to learn goes a long long way.

Nurse Practioners aren't on the same level as PA's in most cases. They are way more specialized generally than a PA. Nurse Practitioners are the same way and can be more competent than a doctor given experience.

I've worked around healthcare for many years. The FIRST thing you should ask a healthcare professional is where in their class they graduated. I'll take the top PA student over the bottom half of the medical class every damn time.

Give me a PA with an ER certification on his license and I"ll take him over a general practitioner every time if I'm having a heart attack.

Completely wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Look up the training and credentialing required for an MD versus a PA. They're called "Physician Assistant" for a reason.

 

[Vox]

Men who fight this battle *for* women are typically the men who also exploit them.

Men who appreicate porn, and sex that is paid for, and who are incapable of entering into meaningful relationships with women, but who feel they have a *right* to have sex with them anyway.

Or, alternately, sex traffickers.

Or the ones who just seem to really enjoy their role of sex object only. Sex objects do not need relationships which involve empathy, understanding, commitment and responsibility.

 

[koshergrl]

The men who go to the mat for the abortion industry are without exception foul, disgusting pieces of humanity.

The women are primarily just misled, abused, confused and thoroughly groomed by the industry or by specific people.

 

[Luissa]

Good for Brown.... Abortion should come with risk.

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

 

[Vox]

Total BS. I know many PA's that put doctors to SHAME> Just because you have MD,DO behind your name doesn't mean you can do shit. Most can't manage a typical everyday patient for diabetes, heart problems, etc.

There are PA's out there that are MORE competent than most doctors. EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE and the will to learn goes a long long way.

Nurse Practioners aren't on the same level as PA's in most cases. They are way more specialized generally than a PA. Nurse Practitioners are the same way and can be more competent than a doctor given experience.

I've worked around healthcare for many years. The FIRST thing you should ask a healthcare professional is where in their class they graduated. I'll take the top PA student over the bottom half of the medical class every damn time.

Give me a PA with an ER certification on his license and I"ll take him over a general practitioner every time if I'm having a heart attack.

total bullshit of an ignorant militant.
There are no PAs which are better than doctors, neither there are NPs of the category - as they are NEVER on the same level of training and responsibility. It is like comparing a kettle and a bottle. Both are holding water but serve different purposes.
Both NPs and PAs work under supervision of MD or DO.
They may boast in front of you how important they are ( if they are insecure in their abilities and have some internal complexes) but the ones which are REALLY good - will never do that as they are so good that they KNOW their limitations.
The ones which are considering themselves equal or better than physicians - are simply fail to know what they don't know
Stay away from them.

You are wrong. I did everything the MDs where I worked did. And only in the first 3 or 4 years of practice was there an MD in my specialty on site. The VA is making their NPs independent providers. When that happens the rest of the nation will follow. NPs and PAs are just like optometrists, we are mid level providers. And the things mid levels can do and are allowed to do has increased exponentially since we got out there in specialties. NPs doing surgical procedures are an inevitable result of this. You simply don't know what you are talking about.

The VA is socialized medicine. And you failed to mention that VA are always full of residents -physicians in training

 

[JoeB131]

More women die today from botched abortions than ever died in the old days.

Abortion is safer than childbirth.

Although both are pretty damned safe.

 

[JoeB131]

[


This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Gosnell existed because most of his clients were too poor to afford a competent doctor.

Nothing more, nothing less.

When you have 50 million uninsured, that's what you are going to get.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Good for Brown.... Abortion should come with risk.

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

Before mid-level providers could perform any aspirations they received a great deal of additional training and certification under the pilot program. More MSM bullshit.

 

[Luissa]

Good for Brown.... Abortion should come with risk.

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

Before mid-level providers could perform any aspirations they received a great deal of additional training and certification under the pilot program. More MSM bullshit.

Um okay

 

[WelfareQueen]

[


This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Gosnell existed because most of his clients were too poor to afford a competent doctor.

Nothing more, nothing less.

When you have 50 million uninsured, that's what you are going to get.

The Government fucked up and failed to protect women. There was a complete lack of oversight and supervision by State and Local Government even after numerous complaints were made, including the deaths of a number of women getting abortions.

Gosnell was a quack and the Government failed to protect vulnerable women. Why is it so difficult to admit the obvious?

 

[WelfareQueen]

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

Before mid-level providers could perform any aspirations they received a great deal of additional training and certification under the pilot program. More MSM bullshit.

Um okay

For any health care provider it is all about training and credentialing. An ER doc literally works hundreds if not thousands of traumas during their residency under direct supervision of a board certified MD before they ever practice independently.

I have no objection to an NP or PA performing abortions as long as they go through the same training as an OB/GYN. That would be a 2 to 3 year supervised residency in which they perform many abortions under direct clinical supervision. That is what I had to do in my specialty, and more importantly, it is what is in the best interests of women's health.

Shouldn't that be what everyone is interested in? What is in the best interest of the woman's health?

 

[koshergrl]

Good for Brown.... Abortion should come with risk.

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

As all babykillers who have argued with me before know, and you are one of them, those numbers mean absolutely nothing since the clinics are not required by law to report, and complications and deaths are under reported...to the extent of not being reported at all. Women who die of blood poisoning do not have "blood poisoning caused by botched late term abortion 3 weeks ago" written on their death certs.

As you are aware.

What makes me disgusted are the WOMEN who know these things, who are willing to lie to other young women, and encourage them to risk their lives, in order to protect their *right* to abort future blunders.

 

[Jroc]

i wonder if obamcare will pay for an abortion performed by someone who isn't a doctor

It's up to the death panel i suppose

 

[koshergrl]

[


This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Gosnell existed because most of his clients were too poor to afford a competent doctor.

Nothing more, nothing less.

When you have 50 million uninsured, that's what you are going to get.

The Government fucked up and failed to protect women. There was a complete lack of oversight and supervision by State and Local Government even after numerous complaints were made, including the deaths of a number of women getting abortions.

Gosnell was a quack and the Government failed to protect vulnerable women. Why is it so difficult to admit the obvious?

Because joeb is a lying dick, and a HUGE fan of Gosnell's. He yucked and cracked jokes and cheered the guy on all the way through the trial. He said women were lying, and nobody has ever been coerced into an abortion, and called Gosnell a hero.

Oh, and he also knows that Gosnell charged a FORTUNE (in cash) for the services he provided. Joe coined the phrase "he owed them a dead fetus" during the trial. He called the dead babies medical waste, including the ones murdered after they were born.

Joe is Gosnell's biggest fan.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Good for Brown.... Abortion should come with risk.

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

As all babykillers who have argued with me before know, and you are one of them, those numbers mean absolutely nothing since the clinics are not required by law to report, and complications and deaths are under reported...to the extent of not being reported at all. Women who die of blood poisoning do not have "blood poisoning caused by botched late term abortion 3 weeks ago" written on their death certs.

As you are aware.

What makes me disgusted are the WOMEN who know these things, who are willing to lie to other young women, and encourage them to risk their lives, in order to protect their *right* to abort future blunders.

Abortion isn’t ‘baby killing,’ it’s ignorant idiocy to suggest otherwise.

And it comes as no surprise you elect to ignore the facts, where complications for doctors and nondoctors were similar and rare, instead engaging in disgraceful demagoguery.

 

[koshergrl]

Meh. Baby, fetus, adolescent...all names for different developmental stages of the same thing..a human. It's killing an innocent human, and nobody has the right.

Are you a Gosnell fan too? I know there's a whole circle of you guys who loved him...I suspect you network. You're disgusting pigs. Now fuck off.

 

[TemplarKormac]

"During the pilot program, which began in 2007, some 8,000 aspiration abortions were provided by nondoctors. Complications rates for doctors and nondoctors were similar, below 2 percent in both cases."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/us/california-expands-availability-of-abortions.html?_r=0

As all babykillers who have argued with me before know, and you are one of them, those numbers mean absolutely nothing since the clinics are not required by law to report, and complications and deaths are under reported...to the extent of not being reported at all. Women who die of blood poisoning do not have "blood poisoning caused by botched late term abortion 3 weeks ago" written on their death certs.

As you are aware.

What makes me disgusted are the WOMEN who know these things, who are willing to lie to other young women, and encourage them to risk their lives, in order to protect their *right* to abort future blunders.

Abortion isn’t ‘baby killing,’ it’s ignorant idiocy to suggest otherwise.

And it comes as no surprise you elect to ignore the facts, where complications for doctors and nondoctors were similar and rare, instead engaging in disgraceful demagoguery.

Then what is it exactly?

Sure, just ask Gosnell how well non physician abortions worked out for him. You engage in disgraceful demagoguery when you contend that you can endanger a woman's health by denying her the right to abortion, but then say non-physician abortions will in no way endanger her health. Preposterous.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Nurse practitioners and physician assistants are qualified to do these early procedures. They won't be legalized back-alley abortions.

I am a master's level health care provider. I work in a major inner city ER that sees over 100,000 patients a year. I have been in practice for over 25 years. In no way is a Nurse Practitioner or PA qualified to do unsupervised abortions. It is beyond their scope of practice and license, and is a major potential health risk to women.

This law demonstrates an utter contempt for women and their health. Period. The only person who should be performing abortions are board certified OB/GYN specialists.

I was under the impression we had a government which enjoys pushing regulations and certifications, to promote and entrust that we have proven qualified experienced licensed professionals performing the tasks they are assigned to do? It's always so good to hear the level of importance we place in restricting some professions, such as a parent's decision to home school, while easing the importance of others. Could the realization of regulations and cost cutting measures to be implemented under Obamacare, leading to a possibility of large number of doctors leaving the field, be behind such new laxed measures?

 

[Plasmaball]

I say let them. If these idiots want to go to the local 7-11 and get thier abortions well, they are probably going to be democrats anyway and we don't need those morons breeding.

I heard you get a special 32 oz cup when you do.
Picture of a fetus or something..

 

[JoeB131]

[


This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Gosnell existed because most of his clients were too poor to afford a competent doctor.

Nothing more, nothing less.

When you have 50 million uninsured, that's what you are going to get.

The Government fucked up and failed to protect women. There was a complete lack of oversight and supervision by State and Local Government even after numerous complaints were made, including the deaths of a number of women getting abortions.

Gosnell was a quack and the Government failed to protect vulnerable women. Why is it so difficult to admit the obvious?

The government can only act if someone complains. What you all like to forget is that these women were not tossed into the back of a van. They went to Gosnell, paid him money, and went home satisfied with the result. At least until they got STD infections from his unsterlized instruments.

It should also be pointed out that while Gosnell left his poor patients of color in the cat-shit infested ward, his white patients got the nice clean exam rooms.