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If a serious university historian questions any aspect of the official holocaust story.There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.
He will be immediately vilified as anti-semitic and a nazi.
And will lose his tenure and be fired on the spot.......
where's the cartoon ???
I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
My main contention is:
1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
Newer research is finding the previous numbers to be LOW.
2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
This is either false or simply unreasonable. There is certainly enough testimony - by those who had to remove the bodies, among others. And those who supplied the Zyklon-B, etc.
3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
The US doesn't do that - nor are 'zionists' responsible for creating such laws elsewhere. And it's not 'having contrary views': it's 'whitewashing genocide'.
4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
Scholars have - numerous well-trained ones. Nobody is 'not allowing': they are simply insisting that such research be held to the already-established standards to ensure objectivity and accuracy.
Who, exactly, are you claiming is doing this 'not allowing'? And why?
he does NOT have a clue
Sunni -
Can you explain why you do not consider the German camp records to be convincing - when they so obviously could not be faked?
Are you aware that even Holocaudt Denier David Irving admitted that "at least" 4 million Jews were murdered?
no he can't and never will
It always amazes me when these issues come down to blind faith - contradicted by entire truck loads of facts.
Anyone today can go and stand in the original gas chambers and see for themselves. Anyone can go and look at the original German camp files.
Its funny how no Denier wants to.
SimpleSomeone ought to ask Sunni Man why he finds it acceptable to post these cartoons while not finding it acceptable for Europeans to post cartoons of Mohammad in their newspapers. The double standards he holds to are the height of hypocrisy. - Jeremiah
Bravo, Jeremiah - excellent point!
I never claimed it did.......Sunni -
The deaths of five million non-Jewish prisoners has nothing whatsoever to do with Zionim, Judaism or Jews.
Who, exactly, are you claiming is doing this 'not allowing'? And why?
he does NOT have a clue
But he does have an agenda.
Just a quick question. How would the non-deniers react if someone or some people who'd been smeared by the press as Holocaust Deniers uncovered and published/circulated evidence in the course of their research that proved more than the official estimate (6m) had perished in the death camps following research that would otherwise have been attributed to an alleged anti-Semitic agenda?
Would their findings be endorsed/cheered by their detractors or dismissed?
If their research was legitimate and based on solid evidence, it would be accepted. Peer review does not require research to be popular - only based on sound academic principles.
There are instances on this happening every year on various topics, including a recent PhD here in Finland which probed the handing over of 8 Jews to the Nazis, a story that had previously been buried. You can imagine how popular the author was after that.
That said, it is almost impossible for Holocaust "revisionism" to meet academic standards.
Varelse -
You are presumably aware of the fact the German camp records are open and available and have been for many years now - and that they confirm the systematic execution of named and numbered Jews entering the camps?
I can't imagine what shred of hope remains for "Revisionism" after that - surely it is game over?
SimpleSomeone ought to ask Sunni Man why he finds it acceptable to post these cartoons while not finding it acceptable for Europeans to post cartoons of Mohammad in their newspapers. The double standards he holds to are the height of hypocrisy. - Jeremiah
Bravo, Jeremiah - excellent point!
The Muhammad cartoons slanders a revered religious figure.
Whereas, holocaust cartoons lambast an alleged historial event and zionist ideology.
Big difference........
Why, exactly? Historians - expert and amateur - 'revise' (a.k.a 'dispute') what they consider unreliable or biased accounts of events in history all the time. Almost every day, in fact. They do so by researching all manner of sources and comparing them against new evidence (archaelogical or academic). From what I can gather, these "revisionists" do exactly the same. They even cite the sources and evidence they've drawn into doubt. How does that not meet "academic standards"?
Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........
Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........
The Nazis used figures of between 9 and 11 million for the Jewish population of Europe, as evidenced in the notes of the Wannsee Conference. In fact, the Nazis methodically recorded the ongoing reduction of the Jewish population, as in the Korherr Report, which gave the status of the Final Solution through December, 1942.
The Höfle Telegram was sent by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle on January 11, 1943 to SS-Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann in Berlin and detailed the number of deaths of Jews in the concentration camps.[54] In the year 1942 alone, the telegram lists 1,274,166 Jews were exterminated[54] in the four camps of Aktion Reinhard. The Korherr Report compiled by an SS statistician, gave a conservative total of 2,454,000 Jews deported to extermination camps or killed by the Einsatzgruppen. The complete status reports of the Einsatzgruppen death squads were found in the archives of the Gestapo when it was searched by the U.S. Army, and the accuracy attested to by the former Einsatzgruppen members who testified during war crime trials and at other times. These reports alone list an additional 1,500,000 or so murders during mass shootings, the vast majority of these victims were Jews. Further, surviving Nazi documentation spells out their plans to murder the Jews of Europe (see the Wannsee Conference), recorded the trains arriving at various death camps, and included photographs and films of many atrocities.
Criticism of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How do we know the Nazis used gas chambers to kill Jews en masse? The same way we prove the Holocaust in general--a convergence of evidence from various sources:
1. Written documents--Orders for Zyklon-B gas, blueprints and orders for building materials for the crematoria, etc.
2. Eyewitness testimony--Sonderkommando diaries, confessions of guards and commandants, etc.
3. Photographs--Not only of the camps, but especially interesting are the secret photos taken of the burning of bodies that were smuggled out of Auschwitz.
4. The camps themselves--forensic tests have now been conducted demonstrating the homicidal use of both the gas chambers and the crematoria for the express purpose of exterminating large numbers of prisoners (Pressac, 1989; Pressac and Van Pelt, 1994).
5. Negative evidence--we have documentation of the numbers of prisoners shipped to the various camps, the numbers that were transferred, and the number liberated. The difference between the latter with the former two figures gives an approximation of the numbers who died or were killed (see Hilberg, 1961).
Proving the Gas Chambers & Crematoria
Why, exactly? Historians - expert and amateur - 'revise' (a.k.a 'dispute') what they consider unreliable or biased accounts of events in history all the time. Almost every day, in fact. They do so by researching all manner of sources and comparing them against new evidence (archaelogical or academic). From what I can gather, these "revisionists" do exactly the same. They even cite the sources and evidence they've drawn into doubt. How does that not meet "academic standards"?
It's difficult for Holocaust "Revisionists" to produce academic work because 99% of what Revisionists publish has no basis in anything except politics.
I know it's an attractive idea to think that new theories are being squashed and people being silenced, but the reality of academia is simply not like that. Voices are raised, opinions screamed from the rooftops, and arguments conducted all over the place. People can, and do, say whatever they like, basically.
But the basis for debate within any decent university faculty is quality. It's about being able to justify a position. If you can do that, you will always find a university that will accept it.
What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!
So Sunni, a Muslim, uses a text put out by one of the most anti-semitic groups on the planet - "Bible Believer" based in Australia - as his source. Bible Believers were described as "one the most visible of the plethora of eccentric pseudo-Christian groups in Australia" and "extremist" by the Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) in their 2008 report on antisemitism in Australia.
While I do not usually use either Wikipedia or Skeptic Magazine as definitive sources, in this case both have done a credible job in pulling a lot of different information together. Some years ago, I coached a debate team on the very subject of Holocaust Denial, and the extensive research that we did in preparation for that debate is fairly well summarized in the two sources linked. Frankly I have neither the time or inclination to repeat all the previous research done to come up with original sources, but some good ones are referred to in the linked references.
The Nazis used figures of between 9 and 11 million for the Jewish population of Europe, as evidenced in the notes of the Wannsee Conference. In fact, the Nazis methodically recorded the ongoing reduction of the Jewish population, as in the Korherr Report, which gave the status of the Final Solution through December, 1942.
The Höfle Telegram was sent by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle on January 11, 1943 to SS-Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann in Berlin and detailed the number of deaths of Jews in the concentration camps.[54] In the year 1942 alone, the telegram lists 1,274,166 Jews were exterminated[54] in the four camps of Aktion Reinhard. The Korherr Report compiled by an SS statistician, gave a conservative total of 2,454,000 Jews deported to extermination camps or killed by the Einsatzgruppen. The complete status reports of the Einsatzgruppen death squads were found in the archives of the Gestapo when it was searched by the U.S. Army, and the accuracy attested to by the former Einsatzgruppen members who testified during war crime trials and at other times. These reports alone list an additional 1,500,000 or so murders during mass shootings, the vast majority of these victims were Jews. Further, surviving Nazi documentation spells out their plans to murder the Jews of Europe (see the Wannsee Conference), recorded the trains arriving at various death camps, and included photographs and films of many atrocities.
Criticism of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How do we know the Nazis used gas chambers to kill Jews en masse? The same way we prove the Holocaust in general--a convergence of evidence from various sources:
1. Written documents--Orders for Zyklon-B gas, blueprints and orders for building materials for the crematoria, etc.
2. Eyewitness testimony--Sonderkommando diaries, confessions of guards and commandants, etc.
3. Photographs--Not only of the camps, but especially interesting are the secret photos taken of the burning of bodies that were smuggled out of Auschwitz.
4. The camps themselves--forensic tests have now been conducted demonstrating the homicidal use of both the gas chambers and the crematoria for the express purpose of exterminating large numbers of prisoners (Pressac, 1989; Pressac and Van Pelt, 1994).
5. Negative evidence--we have documentation of the numbers of prisoners shipped to the various camps, the numbers that were transferred, and the number liberated. The difference between the latter with the former two figures gives an approximation of the numbers who died or were killed (see Hilberg, 1961).
Proving the Gas Chambers & Crematoria
^^^ Ovens for baking bread to feed the soldiers and camp inmates........Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........
no shit sherlock
