Can Christians Ever Answer WHY?

[Meriweather]

god try to convert Jews away from YHWH if he is one in the same and why does he switch names and birthdates and eras to suit your stories?

Some say Torah law is burdensome. Many other Jews are touched and confident that God asked them to live this way. Jews who, for whatever reason, find keeping the details of the law more they can handles (sometimes more than they can afford) come to understand that God loves them and that their sins are forgiven even when keeping Torah Law is not possible for them.

Some Christian denominations seek out Jews to convert. Catholics do not. Catholics understand that Jews have an everlasting covenant with God that many Jews wish to keep. We wait for any Jew who wishes to live under the new covenant to seek us, as we are not hard to find.

God does not switch names and dates and eras. The first anniversaries that Christians celebrated was Jesus' baptism in the Jordan and the coming of the three wise men. The date set for these was the first Sunday in January. In those days, birthdays were not celebrated. Once birthday celebrations came to be a custom, the faithful naturally wanted to commemorate Jesus' birthday as well.

By the way, was Moses really a Greek named Lycurgus? Stories are awfully similar...

 

[Meriweather]

god say he was the nemesis of the hebrew God (Rev 22;16) if they are the same?
Why would your god say he was Lucifer the one placed higher then G0d?

Revelation 22:16, is a reference to Numbers 24:17

The utterance of one who hears what God says, and knows what the Most High knows, of one who sees what the Almighty sees, enraptured and with eyes unveiled.

I see him, though not now; I behold him though not near: A star shall advance from Jacob, and a staff shall rise from Israel.

Further, to call a man a morning star was to class him a hero. For example, Rabbis referred to Mordecai as a morning star.

There is no Lucifer in scripture. Perhaps you are thinking of Dante's Inferno, an allegory of hell written long after Jesus walked the earth?

 

[Meriweather]

Why can't Priests/Pastors/Followers answer the most basic question:
Who is the historical christ you are calling Jesus? So simple yet 1 out of a hundred ever answer it.

Are you asking why disciples of Christ do not agree with your conclusion that Christians are "really" following people of other eras? It is because you are looking for similarities while we note the differences. Again, it is why you might say giraffes and swans the same animal because both have long necks--whereas we note the differences and call them by their separate names.

 

[HaShev]

Meri your lack of historical knowledge is being made an excuse with the same lies and talk arounds you used in previous discussions. You claim it's a coincidence they seem to have commonality but that's an outright lie because these people are dated and have figures in your accts that don't match history and reality and there is evidence of the converged figures including in the NT whereby James and Paul are fighting over seemingly claiming each is worshiping different christs.
Furthermorr there is no history records of Jesus, only the actual people used to make up his image.
Then you have the trinty teachings admiting Jesus is 3, in fact Esus was a predated tri god with same rituals used in the church today including the hats cardinals wear.
Fact: you couldn't name who your christ was.
But here's your blunder that proves you are all liars:
In plagiarizing and pkacing you fictitious character in the OT you contradict what you posted.
Does your religion tell You jesus is in Zech 12:10?
2 people are being spoken of, "pierce me, but mourn for him".
This agrees with me and makes you a liar as it shows they confuse over 2 people one persecuted but the other one mourned instead of the one they pierced.
This is called check mate!
You either have to admit I'm right and you are wrong and you lied or admit your faith lies and blunders in playgiarising the OT. Thus admit you lied over that discussion. CHECK MATE! My kNIGHT to your fallen king.

Regarding the whole Lucifer discussion, another lie and excuse by you. Being it's a term used for a specific character having to do with coming as physical phosphorus light and is used by your faith you just threw your faith under the bus calling them liars in order to save face you smashed theirs again. The fact this Luciferous light is seen radiating out of Jesus and his heart in iconographs and visiting Paul and Constantine clsiming itself Jesus is priceless.
So far you failed to make a rebuttle without lies and showing ignorance to meaning of words, your own scripture, your own idols words and claims and you threw both Jesus and Christianity under the bus to spout lame excuses and replies. Don't quit your day job, unless it's as a pastor then by all means run far away ftom that which you proved you disagree with.

 

[HaShev]

Sources:
[See here etymology of "Lucifer": "[ the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, THE Devil, fr. OE. fr. Latin, the morning star, fr. Lucifer light-bearing, fr. luc light + -fer -ferous--more at LIGHT]" (Webster's, p.677)

Fact: Jesus is called the light of this world, more at light then anyone and is symboled by the sun and radiant luciferous light.

“So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed. You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star (LUCIFER)rises in your hearts.” -- 2 Peter 1:19
Hence the iconographs of a luciferous radiating heart.


“... from my Father. To the one who conquers(DESTROYS) I will also give the morning star(LUCIFER).” -- Revelation 2:28

· Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things in the churches.
· I am the bright and Morning Star (lucifer)

L=12+U=21+C=3+I=9+F=6+E=5+R=18 = 74
J=10+E=5+S=19+U=21+S=19 = 74
666 in roman numerals is written: DCLXVI And strangely enough, DCLXVI in alpha-numerics = 74

 

[Meriweather]

Sources:
[See here etymology of "Lucifer": "[ the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, THE Devil, fr. OE. fr. Latin, the morning star, fr. Lucifer light-bearing, fr. luc light + -fer -ferous--more at LIGHT]" (Webster's, p.677)

Fact: Jesus is called the light of this world, more at light then anyone and is symboled by the sun and radiant luciferous light.

“So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed. You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star (LUCIFER)rises in your hearts.” -- 2 Peter 1:19
Hence the iconographs of a luciferous radiating heart.


“... from my Father. To the one who conquers(DESTROYS) I will also give the morning star(LUCIFER).” -- Revelation 2:28

· Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things in the churches.
· I am the bright and Morning Star (lucifer)

L=12+U=21+C=3+I=9+F=6+E=5+R=18 = 74
J=10+E=5+S=19+U=21+S=19 = 74
666 in roman numerals is written: DCLXVI And strangely enough, DCLXVI in alpha-numerics = 74

Sigh. Do you realize you are using a King James Bible (Protestant) to argue with a Catholic? King James has proven to be a very poor translation of the original languages.

The Catholic Bible translates Isaiah 14:12: How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn....with the following footnote: Morning star: the king of Babylon.

Context confirms that Isaiah is speaking of the king of Babylon, not Satan. Also, in the Old Testament (see Job especially) Satan is portrayed as a being who tests--a type of prosecutor as it were.

Jesus speaks of Satan as a murderer from the beginning, the overseer of demons.

 

[Meriweather]

Meri your lack of historical knowledge is being made an excuse with the same lies and talk arounds you used in previous discussions. You claim it's a coincidence they seem to have commonality but that's an outright lie because these people are dated and have figures in your accts that don't match history and reality and there is evidence of the converged figures including in the NT whereby James and Paul are fighting over seemingly claiming each is worshiping different christs.
Furthermorr there is no history records of Jesus, only the actual people used to make up his image.
Then you have the trinty teachings admiting Jesus is 3, in fact Esus was a predated tri god with same rituals used in the church today including the hats cardinals wear.
Fact: you couldn't name who your christ was.
But here's your blunder that proves you are all liars:
In plagiarizing and pkacing you fictitious character in the OT you contradict what you posted.
Does your religion tell You jesus is in Zech 12:10?
2 people are being spoken of, "pierce me, but mourn for him".
This agrees with me and makes you a liar as it shows they confuse over 2 people one persecuted but the other one mourned instead of the one they pierced.
This is called check mate!
You either have to admit I'm right and you are wrong and you lied or admit your faith lies and blunders in playgiarising the OT. Thus admit you lied over that discussion. CHECK MATE! My kNIGHT to your fallen king.

Regarding the whole Lucifer discussion, another lie and excuse by you. Being it's a term used for a specific character having to do with coming as physical phosphorus light and is used by your faith you just threw your faith under the bus calling them liars in order to save face you smashed theirs again. The fact this Luciferous light is seen radiating out of Jesus and his heart in iconographs and visiting Paul and Constantine clsiming itself Jesus is priceless.
So far you failed to make a rebuttle without lies and showing ignorance to meaning of words, your own scripture, your own idols words and claims and you threw both Jesus and Christianity under the bus to spout lame excuses and replies. Don't quit your day job, unless it's as a pastor then by all means run far away ftom that which you proved you disagree with.

I have a good grasp of both Jewish/Roman history and Greek/Roman mythology. The difference between your studies and mine is that you maintain similarities mean one and the same. They do not. As I said before, it is the differences that tell their true stories. By your type of reckoning, Moses and Lycurgus are one and the same instead of unique individuals.

The Roman historian, Tacitus (56-117 A.D.), notes that Nero chose to blame Christians. Tacitus notes that the populace called them Christians. He goes on to say: Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome.

Jesus is not three. God is not three. God is One, with Jesus (the Son/the Word of God) and the Holy Spirit are one in being with the Father. We use the word Trinity because Trinity denotes the Oneness of God while recognizing three vital aspects of God: Father/Creator, Word, Holy Spirit.

 

[HaShev]

You said:Context confirms that Isaiah is speaking of the
king of Babylon, not Satan....

Got yourself there, 1) you can't have a double standard whereby the Isaiah verse is a literal historical event you claim is a future prophecy fulfilled by Jesus.
Like your faith's fakacious use of IS53 about plural past tense Israel or Isaiah 9 about King Hezekiah as the son born a sign for his father king Ahaz.
You can't dance back and forth at whim and use claims to validate your messiah then admit that process is bogus without admiting Christianities placement is bogus. (once again throwing Jesus and your faith under the bus to try and be right=ego.
That being said here is my former post on this subject you might learn something from it. Remember itvis your faith that uses IS 14 when refering to Lucifer.
You refute your faith again as well as the dictionary and the reason why they symbolized the morning star for lucifer, all of which prove your last post a lie in claiming you know history.
that description of darkness and spearing event along with Jesus claiming he was Baal's son the morning star-rev22;16
Matches that of the morning stars fall in Isaiah 14:12-17.
The verse Christians use describing Lucifer aka the morning star.
Fact: prophecy has many facits/layers those being
1) the historical description, because the Sages knew to see emulations in behavior, events, and power hungry leaders to predict future probable emulations and resemblances=prophecy.
Sure Isaiah is describing king Nebuchadnezzar, however the admitted emulator Saddam said so himself that he was emulating the Babylonian king trying to bring Babylon to it's amcient glory.
So that is 2) the future emulation prophecy fulfilled because Isaiah14 is also describing Saddams fall, his dishevelled unrecognizable appearance and his being found in a pit. In fact I was the only one to notice and point out that the daye he was found coincided exactly with the verse. Remember in that oart of the world days come before months so 14/12 is the 14th of Dec the day he was captured in his pit.
But prophecy also has a third layer, the spiritual emulation warning, that being the description of the fall of Lucifer Jesus, the image of a msn that Rome created to deceive the world into worshiping Baal and falling for the ole baal harvest seed scam that you see on every single televangelist broadcadt today especially running every show on TBN.

 

[HaShev]

Hadit,
The Hebrew God is not a man or form, it's being described as an Essence of life just as we use the term devil for that nature in life that is destructive or deadly.
To be in line and path of that essence we need guidlines that help us be in that proper path and essence.
We end up going in thst direction of progressing evolving and not opposition to it thus decaying and dying.
Rules are there for that refkection and manifestation of becoming "Shalem" (complete and whole) as in all we could and should be. That is also why society has rules to live by, schools have them, towns, states, govt etc.
Without them we have anarchy (as seen in many territories with no law.) Now using marriage is a bad example, because no rules explains the high divorce rate=no structure moral ethics or standards.

 

[Faun]

Sources:
[See here etymology of "Lucifer": "[ the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, THE Devil, fr. OE. fr. Latin, the morning star, fr. Lucifer light-bearing, fr. luc light + -fer -ferous--more at LIGHT]" (Webster's, p.677)

Fact: Jesus is called the light of this world, more at light then anyone and is symboled by the sun and radiant luciferous light.

“So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed. You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star (LUCIFER)rises in your hearts.” -- 2 Peter 1:19
Hence the iconographs of a luciferous radiating heart.


“... from my Father. To the one who conquers(DESTROYS) I will also give the morning star(LUCIFER).” -- Revelation 2:28

· Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things in the churches.
· I am the bright and Morning Star (lucifer)

L=12+U=21+C=3+I=9+F=6+E=5+R=18 = 74
J=10+E=5+S=19+U=21+S=19 = 74
666 in roman numerals is written: DCLXVI And strangely enough, DCLXVI in alpha-numerics = 74

Aren't the names, "Jesus" and "Lucifer" the English translation of the Bible? Of what significance are the numerical values of the letters in Biblical terms other than some quirky coincidence?

 

[HaShev]

Meri,
noticed a source you used from a later era historian.
Christus (christos) was Krishna's name (some of his myth was used for Jesus) Jesus name was not Christ and h8s cult was called Hanotzrim and Nazarene.
Therefore when you quoted the historian
" Christus, from whom the name had its
origin"
this reveals it can't be Jesus and has to be Krishna.
There were many christs including Krishna and Mithra, so Christian is a blanket term hence why I ask which Christ is your Jesus, even Janes and Paul were at odds at each other for this very same issue. They swore each was teaching another christ then they were.

 

[HaShev]

Aren't the names, "Jesus" and "Lucifer" the English translation of the Bible? Of what significance are the numerical values of the letters in Biblical terms other than some quirky coincidence?

That which resides in the time to come knows English do they not? Questioning the power to place a warning recognized by the time it needs revealing am I corrrect?
Ironically you stumbled upon an issue with Christianity using a foreign name for a Hebrew character and to top it off they get the transliteration wrong, "y" is pronounced like our "H" that's why the book of Yohoshua is called Hoshea.

 

[Faun]

Aren't the names, "Jesus" and "Lucifer" the English translation of the Bible? Of what significance are the numerical values of the letters in Biblical terms other than some quirky coincidence?

That which resides in the time to come knows English do they not? Questioning the power to place a warning recognized by the time it needs revealing am I corrrect?
Ironically you stumbled upon an issue with Christianity using a foreign name for a Hebrew character and to top it off they get the transliteration wrong, "y" is pronounced like our "H" that's why the book of Yohoshua is called Hoshea.

G-d did not give them the names, "Jesus" or "Lucifer." Men translating the Bible to English did that. Your logic declares those English Biblical scholars were the ones possessing the godly ability to see into the future.

 

[HaShev]

Meri said: Jesus speaks of Satan as a murderer from the
beginning, the overseer of demons.

Any Jewish teacher at that time period would consider Rome the adversary (sawtawn=satan).
Rome was a murdering culture from it's begining, however Rome can't teach you about who is satan anymore then Saddam can call the US the great satan.
Jesus being Romes created image means his placed word is useless on this subject, so Who does Michael say is Satan?

pssst infancy book of thomas shows a young Jesus murdering a kid out of childish pride, sort of like how you keep killing Jesus by throwing him under the bus to try and save an argument. Murderer since the beginning fits the shoes right there.

 

[HaShev]

Faun, do you know where heaven is?
If you don't know where it is then you don't see how or why it's possible.
Do you know where the beginning of the message is?
If you haven't secreted the key to where and when then you will not see it nor recognize the hows and whys.
1) people don't recognize the Hebrew view of Olam Habah will not grasp where and
2) people in linear time mindset will not grasp from when the message starts.
I just gave you 2 giant clues that give you the key to unlocking the mystery of the question you asked.

 

[Faun]

Faun, do you know where heaven is?
If you don't know where it is then you don't see how or why it's possible.
Do you know where the beginning of the message is?
If you haven't secreted the key to where and when then you will not see it nor recognize the hows and whys.
1) people don't recognize the Hebrew view of Olam Habah will not grasp where and
2) people in linear time mindset will not grasp from when the message starts.
I just gave you 2 giant clues that give you the key to unlocking the mystery of the question you asked.

In my last post, I did not ask a question nor was I seeking clues. I was pointing out the flaw in your logic.

 

[HaShev]

And you came to that SUBJECTIVE OPINION based on not knowing, which is not how you rationalize and deduce things. BUT you inadvertantly revealed your intent, because if you don't want the answer then why did you ask? Your intent was not the claim to seeking an answer, your intent was to muddy the waters so nobody could drink from them because you didn't want to you felt you would make sure others wouldn't either.

 

[teddyearp]

Where were you when the foundations of the Earth were laid? Tell me since you are so well informed!

Who decided its dimensions? Do you know?

What supports it, and who laid its cornerstone?

Who pent up the sea behind its doors . . . . and said, "Come this far and no farther"?

Have you ever in you life given orders to the morning or sent the dawn to its post, to grasp the earth by its edges to shake the wicked out of it?

How can we, who are finite ever expect to understand fully the infinite?

 

[HaShev]

Are you asking me these questions?
First one must understand Genesis for what it says and not what we are lead to believe about Genesis through another cultures interpretation and misunderstanding of the Hebrew.
In Genesis creation is OUT OF CHAOS the Hebrew God brings order.
The Hebrew God being that Essence to become complete and whole/progress to what could and should be/aka evolve. We know this through the Torah which says the Essence is in the name of the Holy City which name Shalem means completeness and wholeness.
So this essence which is not a man nor form is a nature that we need a mediation with to reflect and manifest that Essence, such is the role of the mediator/messenger/sages/Rabbis/philosophers.
The 7 day process is misunderstood because days=ages.
Moses was inspired to use a Hebrew word, "yom" , which has a dual meaning of "a period of inconceivably long time" or can mean a day as we know it 24 hours.
So 7 days meant 7 long periods of time or as we call them AGES.
Don't believe me or think I am making it up to explain the long period of existence compared to thousand year periods?
Well it is in the commentary of their meaning of that age in time.
Found in:
The Ages of The World Scroll 4Q180-181
The introduction to the work, which emphasizes God's predetermination of history.
4Q180 Frag. 1 The prophetic interpretation concerning the ages which God made: an age to complete [all which is] 2and shall be. Before He created them, He established [their] workings [ . . . ] 3age by age. And it was engraved upon [eternal] tablets [ . . . ] 4[ . . . ] ages of their dominion. This is the order of the so[ns of Noah to] [Abraham un]til he bore Isaac, ten [generations (?) . . . ] [ . . . ]

So how does G0d create order out of chaos?
That's where understanding where the beginning is and how time works comes in handy. Figure out my riddle and the answer will be clear, how and who is creating order out of chaos and why.
Funny thing is the History channel had the answer this morning mentioning it regarding a what if comment.

OH and it will also answer your infinite question but understanding G0d as an Essence not a being -form answers that question already.

 

[HaShev]

The 7 day (ages) creation :
1)Dinosaur age, leaving us with Fossil Fuel to help out latter stages needing fuel for Industrial age and Travel for Infrastructure.

2)then evolving man

Hunter / Gatherers - Prior to 5,000 BC (about a million years)
3)Agricultural Age: - 5,000 BC to 500 BC (about 5,000 years)
This was the age of rapid spread of civilization to all corners of the
earth.
4) Age of Trade: - 500 BC to 1730 AD (about 2,000 years)
This was the age of rapid spread of wealth and knowledge. From this
age came technology, 'modern' concepts of math, scientific method,
medicine, warfare.

5)Industrial Age: 1730 AD - 1950 AD (about 200 years)
The rise and fall of great Captains of Industry, railroads, shipping,
air transport, conquering of physical frontiers, modern military war
machines, major empires rise and fall on a global scale:

Trade still very important, but now, seen as a means to delivery the
greatest number of goods to the greatest number of people for the
greatest profit. Agriculture still very important, but not seen as the
primary engine of the economy... Hunter gatherers almost disappearing.

6) Information Age: 1950 to 1999 (about 50 years)
Witness the rise of abandoned old industrial buildings by the rivers of the major cities.
Industry, Trade, Agriculture are still in the foundation of our
economy, but are dominated by the frenetic application of information
systems technologies to make these products better, cheaper and
deliver them more effectively. Also leads to networking ideas and next age of molecular manifacturing.

7)The Day of rest is the Messianic Age with molecular manufacturing and biotech where everything progressed into this promise fulfilled in perfection as we became the creators=manifestation of our creation to reflect and do it's will.