Can someone show me ONE liberal ideal that has actually worked?

[Meister]

The partisan hacks show their colors. Anybody claiming our education system has anything to do with conservative/liberal.

Been to UC Berkeley in the last 40 years?

 

[Meister]

You'll have to study your history including the cultural revolution of the 60's for your best source material. When conservatives were in charge, most kids us didn't have a clue what religion or political party our teachers and college professors belonged to and didn't care. People were educated, not indoctrinated.

So, your ideal of teachers/professors being neither liberal nor conservative but people who teach puts you squarely in the conservative column on that one. Because that is exactly what conservatives want to happen in education.

This is part of an old George Will essay I saved - I have it dated 2004. I don't believe a copy is available on the internet any more:

Liberals have sabotaged the educational system.

75% of US high school graduates cannot pass a 2 question history test:

1. When was the War of 1812 fought.

2. Including John Adams, name 3 of Americas Founding Fathers

Thank you for this. I've been seeing it for a long time now. Maybe as many as half of highschool graduates are not literate enough to competently fill out an application form or type out a coherent simple resume. I have been apalled at how some college graduates have had no Constitution at all, never heard of Karl Marx, and think Castro made conditions in Cuba better.

Dogbert may think I'm insane.

But I KNOW it is insane to continue on the path we have been and expect America to retain stature in the world or even ability to defend itself against those who would destroy it.

There are some that think we are the thorn that inhibits the US to get in line with the rest of the world. It is our capitalistic government and society that is the problem. George Soros is one of the main advocates for us to change. He is a big proponent of open borders, and a one world government. Also, please note which party gets the lions share of his funds, and look at which party is leaning heavily in his direction.
Here are some interesting reads about Soros:
In His Image: George Soros: The Global Open Society - A Contradiction of Terms?
George Soros urges Copenhagen to help him establish one world government
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7476
George Soros, wrecking civilization for profit | Newsnet 14

 

[Foxfyre]

Liberals have sabotaged the educational system.

75% of US high school graduates cannot pass a 2 question history test:

1. When was the War of 1812 fought.

2. Including John Adams, name 3 of Americas Founding Fathers

Thank you for this. I've been seeing it for a long time now. Maybe as many as half of highschool graduates are not literate enough to competently fill out an application form or type out a coherent simple resume. I have been apalled at how some college graduates have had no Constitution at all, never heard of Karl Marx, and think Castro made conditions in Cuba better.

Dogbert may think I'm insane.

But I KNOW it is insane to continue on the path we have been and expect America to retain stature in the world or even ability to defend itself against those who would destroy it.

There are some that think we are the thorn that inhibits the US to get in line with the rest of the world. It is our capitalistic government and society that is the problem. George Soros is one of the main advocates for us to change. He is a big proponent of open borders, and a one world government. Also, please note which party gets the lions share of his funds, and look at which party is leaning heavily in his direction.
Here are some interesting reads about Soros:
In His Image: George Soros: The Global Open Society - A Contradiction of Terms?
George Soros urges Copenhagen to help him establish one world government
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7476
George Soros, wrecking civilization for profit | Newsnet 14

It's scary Meister. And I'm out of rep or I would rep you for this post.

 

[Foxfyre]

The partisan hacks show their colors. Anybody claiming our education system has anything to do with conservative/liberal.

And anybody who is unable to read the evidence, the studies--several were cited in that George Will article--and thinks the education doesn't have anything to do with conservative/liberal is either ignorant, grossly misinformed, or delusional.

I'll let you pick.

 

[The Rabbi]

The partisan hacks show their colors. Anybody claiming our education system has anything to do with conservative/liberal.

And anybody who is unable to read the evidence, the studies--several were cited in that George Will article--and thinks the education doesn't have anything to do with conservative/liberal is either ignorant, grossly misinformed, or delusional.

I'll let you pick.

Why does it have to be just one?
I was reading Sowell's Inside American Education and he makes pretty much similar points. Anyone who ignores the evidence is likely a flack for the teachers' union.

 

[Foxfyre]

The partisan hacks show their colors. Anybody claiming our education system has anything to do with conservative/liberal.

And anybody who is unable to read the evidence, the studies--several were cited in that George Will article--and thinks the education doesn't have anything to do with conservative/liberal is either ignorant, grossly misinformed, or delusional.

I'll let you pick.

Why does it have to be just one?
I was reading Sowell's Inside American Education and he makes pretty much similar points. Anyone who ignores the evidence is likely a flack for the teachers' union.

A great read--all of Sowell's works are. You cannot read his take on anything without increasing your grasp of history. I minored in history in college and I still learn much from Sowell, Williams, and others who have devoted a lifetime to study of the American condition. And they teach with no partisan slant whatsoever.

 

[Father Time]

"Because that is exactly what conservatives want to happen in education."

Oh cut the holier than though 'my side only has good intentions' crap.

There's conservatives in Texas who are quite clearly trying to slant the public school curriculum to the conservative side.

Besides a politically neutral campus isn't a liberal or conservative idea. If anything it's centrist.

Taking a small very unrepresentative case and applying it across the board as the norm is the very essence of hackery and demagogery.

I wasn't trying to do that, he said a neutral classroom was a conservative idea so I brought up some conservatives that are tilting their school curriculum to the right. Wasn't saying all conservatives wanted this.

 

[rightwinger]

The partisan hacks show their colors. Anybody claiming our education system has anything to do with conservative/liberal.

Been to UC Berkeley in the last 40 years?

Who wrote the "No Child left Behind Act" ??

How did the Red States of Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Alaska.....
All allow liberals to take over their education system?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

What are you? The Republican version of Rdean?

When exactly did the "nasty Liberals" take over public education and universities? And where is a credible source for this?

I don't want Conservatives to be in charge of education. Hell, I don't want Liberals to be in charge of education. I want people who are teachers and give a shit about teaching the kids rather than trying to indoctrinate them with political beliefs like you are.

You'll have to study your history including the cultural revolution of the 60's for your best source material. When conservatives were in charge, most kids us didn't have a clue what religion or political party our teachers and college professors belonged to and didn't care. People were educated, not indoctrinated.

So, your ideal of teachers/professors being neither liberal nor conservative but people who teach puts you squarely in the conservative column on that one. Because that is exactly what conservatives want to happen in education.

This is part of an old George Will essay I saved - I have it dated 2004. I don't believe a copy is available on the internet any more:

Diversity of Everything but Thought
by George Will

OH, well, if studies say so. The great secret is out: liberals dominate campuses. Coming soon: "Moon Implicated in Tides, Studies Find."

One study of 1,000 professors finds that Democrats outnumber Republicans at least seven to one in the humanities and social sciences. That imbalance, more than double what it was three decades ago, is intensifying because younger professors are more uniformly liberal than the older cohort that is retiring.

Another study, of voter-registration records, including those of professors in engineering and the hard sciences, found nine Democrats for every Republican at Berkeley and Stanford. Among younger profs, there were 183 Democrats, six Republicans.

But we essentially knew this even before The American Enterprise magazine reported in 2002 of examinations of voting records in various college communities. Some findings about professors registered with the two major parties or with liberal or conservative minor parties:

Cornell: 166 liberals, 6 conservatives.

Stanford: 151 liberals, 17 conservatives.

Colorado: 116 liberals, 5 conservatives.

The nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics reports that in 2004 the top two institutions in terms of employee per-capita contributions to presidential candidates were the University of California system and Harvard, both of which gave about 19 times more money to John Kerry than to George Bush.

But George Lakoff, a linguistics professor at Berkeley, denies that academic institutions are biased against conservatives. The disparity in hiring, he explains, occurs because conservatives are not as interested as liberals in academic careers. Why does he think liberals are like that? "Unlike conservatives, they believe in working for the public good and social justice."

That clears that up.

A filtering process, from graduate-school admissions through tenure decisions, tends to exclude conservatives from what Mark Bauerlein calls academia's "sheltered habitat." In a dazzling essay in The Chronicle of Higher Education, Bauerlein, professor of English at Emory University and director of research at the National Endowment for the Arts, notes that the "first protocol" of academic society is the "common assumption" — that, at professional gatherings, all the strangers in the room are liberals.

It is a reasonable assumption, given that in order to enter the profession, your work must be deemed, by the criteria of the prevailing culture, "relevant." Bauerlein says various academic fields now have regnant premises that embed political orientations in their very definitions of scholarship:

"Schools of education, for instance, take constructivist theories of learning as definitive, excluding realists (in matters of knowledge) on principle, while the quasi-Marxist outlook of cultural studies rules out those who espouse capitalism. If you disapprove of affirmative action, forget pursuing a degree in African-American studies. If you think that the nuclear family proves the best unit of social well-being, stay away from women's studies."

This gives rise to what Bauerlein calls the "false consensus effect": Due to institutional provincialism, "people think that the collective opinion of their own group matches that of the larger population."

There also is what Cass Sunstein of University of Chicago, calls "the law of group polarization." Bauerlein explains: "When like-minded people deliberate as an organized group, the general opinion shifts toward extreme versions of their common beliefs." They become tone-deaf to the way they sound to others outside their closed circle of belief.

When John Kennedy brought to Washington such academics as Arthur Schlesinger Jr., John Kenneth Galbraith, McGeorge and William Bundy and Walt Rostow, it was said that the Charles River was flowing into the Potomac.

Academics, such as the next secretary of state, still decorate Washington, but academia is less listened to than it was. It has marginalized itself, partly by political shrillness and silliness that have something to do with the parochialism produced by what George Orwell called "smelly little orthodoxies."

Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations — except such nations usually have the merit, such as it is, of candor about their ideological monopolies. In contrast, American campuses have more insistently proclaimed their commitment to diversity as they have become more intellectually monochrome.

They do indeed cultivate diversity — in race, skin color, ethnicity, sexual preference. In everything but thought.

Liberals have sabotaged the educational system.

75% of US high school graduates cannot pass a 2 question history test:

1. When was the War of 1812 fought.

2. Including John Adams, name 3 of Americas Founding Fathers

Source?

BTW, can you answer the first question without Google?

 

[Foxfyre]

The partisan hacks show their colors. Anybody claiming our education system has anything to do with conservative/liberal.

Been to UC Berkeley in the last 40 years?

Who wrote the "No Child left Behind Act" ??

How did the Red States of Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Alaska.....
All allow liberals to take over their education system?

NCLB was a George W. Bush invention and I presume it was his staff that wrote most of it. The concept and intentions were good--who can fault an effort to improve education for children?--but the unintended negative consequences blurred many of the verifiable benefits from that program. President Bush, however, was no conservative when it came to big government initiatives.

And Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Alaska, like everything else, became whores to get the federal dollars along with the very leftist influence of the NEA and the obvious resulting deterioration of the education process.

Take federal dollars out of the mix, reduce the Dept of Education to a data gathering and distributing agency only, and defang the corrupt and self serving NEA, and we will see education in this country improve almost immediately.

 

[rdean]

I'm so baffled at all these liberals who are dropping at their knees at the feet of Obama. The last Democratic president we had a problem with ONE person dropping to their knees for Clinton, but now we have 100 million people doing it. So, that begs the question, why? Why are liberals who they are? Sifting through decades of liberal ideals, policies, and dreams, I don't think I can find ONE that actually works in the long run? A quick summary:

Appeasment? Failed vs Hitler. Failed vs Iran. Failed vs North Korea.
Welfare? The poor keep getting poorer, despite welfare. At least thats what liberals are saying. Welfare has caused MORE people to become or remain poor, not less.
Social Security? Bankrupt. Failed.
Medicare/Medicaid? Soon to be bankrupt. Failing.
Obamacare? Soon to be failure, just wait and see.
Higher taxes? Obviously, higher taxes hurt job and economic growth.
Housing? Greenspan finally admits what we've known for 2 years. The liberal practice of threatening racism allegation on banks who wouldn't loan to poor people is the root of this recession as it caused the housing bust.
Public education? Failed.
Public housing? Failed. Have you ever seen a pleasant gov't housing project? Ever?
Global Warming? Hoax.
Anit-civil rights? Yes, thats right, read your history, the Republicans were responsible for passing civil rights in the 60's, Democrats strongly opposed it. So, the DEMOCRAT anti-civil rights stance failed.
Pro-Slavery? Yes, again, it was the Republican Party that freed slaves, Democrats opposed, so they failed there again.


So, let me ask again, what is ONE liberal Democratic policy that had positive results? Just one!!??

Here's one:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/113110-could-it-be-obama-was-right-about-gm.html#post2200646

 

[Liberty]

Can someone show me ONE liberal ideal that has actually worked?

I'll give you three:
Abolition
Women's suffrage
Democracy

Abolition: Republican
Women's suffrage: Republican
Democracy: WTF? the USA is nto a democracy it's a represenative republic. if it was a democracy than 51% could vote to have your hand chopped off for no reason.

idiot.

 

[Dr Gregg]

You'll have to study your history including the cultural revolution of the 60's for your best source material. When conservatives were in charge, most kids us didn't have a clue what religion or political party our teachers and college professors belonged to and didn't care. People were educated, not indoctrinated.

So, your ideal of teachers/professors being neither liberal nor conservative but people who teach puts you squarely in the conservative column on that one. Because that is exactly what conservatives want to happen in education.

This is part of an old George Will essay I saved - I have it dated 2004. I don't believe a copy is available on the internet any more:

Liberals have sabotaged the educational system.

75% of US high school graduates cannot pass a 2 question history test:

1. When was the War of 1812 fought.

2. Including John Adams, name 3 of Americas Founding Fathers

Source?

BTW, can you answer the first question without Google?

The war of 1812 question is a trick question, what the question should be is when did the War of 1812 start, since it lasted from 1812-1815. Why was it called the war of 1812 again?

 

[Father Time]

Can someone show me ONE liberal ideal that has actually worked?

I'll give you three:
Abolition
Women's suffrage
Democracy

Abolition: Republican
Women's suffrage: Republican
Democracy: WTF? the USA is nto a democracy it's a represenative republic. if it was a democracy than 51% could vote to have your hand chopped off for no reason.

idiot.

This was about liberal vs. conservative not republican vs. Democrat

 

[rdean]

I'll give you three:
Abolition
Women's suffrage
Democracy

Abolition: Republican
Women's suffrage: Republican
Democracy: WTF? the USA is nto a democracy it's a represenative republic. if it was a democracy than 51% could vote to have your hand chopped off for no reason.

idiot.

This was about liberal vs. conservative not republican vs. Democrat

Conservatives try to take credit any way they can "steal" it.

 

[rightwinger]

Been to UC Berkeley in the last 40 years?

Who wrote the "No Child left Behind Act" ??

How did the Red States of Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Alaska.....
All allow liberals to take over their education system?

NCLB was a George W. Bush invention and I presume it was his staff that wrote most of it. The concept and intentions were good--who can fault an effort to improve education for children?--but the unintended negative consequences blurred many of the verifiable benefits from that program. President Bush, however, was no conservative when it came to big government initiatives.

And Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Alaska, like everything else, became whores to get the federal dollars along with the very leftist influence of the NEA and the obvious resulting deterioration of the education process.

Take federal dollars out of the mix, reduce the Dept of Education to a data gathering and distributing agency only, and defang the corrupt and self serving NEA, and we will see education in this country improve almost immediately.

No Child Left Behind was a conservative concoction and it shows. Because it was unfunded, it did more harm than good

All Red states have control over curriculum, budgets, teacher hires, textbooks and the size of their football stadiums

To say that Liberals are telling them what to teach and where to spend their educational dollar is a lie

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Can someone show me ONE liberal ideal that has actually worked?

I'll give you three:
Abolition
Women's suffrage
Democracy

Abolition: Republican

Founded as a liberal party in opposition to (primarily Southern) conservative Democrats.

Of course, it's par for the course for a retarded right-winger (who would have been a Democrat at the time) to conflate political ideology with party affiliation whenever convenient.

Women's suffrage: Republican

Actually, it was a product of Leftist grassroots movements which basically forced the government to comply.

Democracy: WTF? the USA is nto a democracy

You're retarded. The USA is a democracy. It's just not a Democracy. Type versus form, you twit.

it's a represenative republic.

Do you know why it says 'representative'? Because it's a representative democracy. The Republic refers to its organization: it's a representative democratic system with a federated republican organization to it.

If it weren't a democracy, people wouldn't vote.

if it was a democracy than 51% could vote to have your hand chopped off for no reason.

No, that'd be if it were a direct democracy requiring only a simple majority for the passage of legislation.

But far be it from you to ever know what you're babbling about.

idiot.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'll give you three:
Abolition
Women's suffrage
Democracy

Abolition: Republican
Women's suffrage: Republican
Democracy: WTF? the USA is nto a democracy it's a represenative republic. if it was a democracy than 51% could vote to have your hand chopped off for no reason.

idiot.

This was about liberal vs. conservative not republican vs. Democrat

True. But an apprecaition of unalienable rights and a government that secures those rights and then gets out of the way and allows the people for form whatever society they want is the conservative point of view. Abolition, women's suffrage, and democracy are all conservative concepts drawing on appreciation for individual liberties and the right to structure our own society without government interference other than to secure our rights.

Liberalism would give government the authority to order whatever society government wants society to be, affords one group greater privileges and benefits than another, and promotes government authoritarianism rather than democratic processes. Just look at how many pure liberals approve the government running roughshod over the opinions and wishes of the people in the healthcare legislation. Conservatives strongly disapprove.

And there are more of us conservatives than there are of them if we can just muster the courage to jump out of the pot before we are all boiled and it is too late.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Liberals have sabotaged the educational system.

75% of US high school graduates cannot pass a 2 question history test:

1. When was the War of 1812 fought.

2. Including John Adams, name 3 of Americas Founding Fathers

Source?

BTW, can you answer the first question without Google?

The war of 1812 question is a trick question, what the question should be is when did the War of 1812 start, since it lasted from 1812-1815.

Not a trick question. He asked when it was fought, not in what year it was fought

I thought you were supposed to be educated? Clearly, reading comprehension wasn't your strongest subject.

 

[Liberty]

I'll give you three:
Abolition
Women's suffrage
Democracy

Abolition: Republican

Founded as a liberal party in opposition to (primarily Southern) conservative Democrats.

Of course, it's par for the course for a retarded right-winger (who would have been a Democrat at the time) to conflate political ideology with party affiliation whenever convenient.


Actually, it was a product of Leftist grassroots movements which basically forced the government to comply.


You're retarded. The USA is a democracy. It's just not a Democracy. Type versus form, you twit.


Do you know why it says 'representative'? Because it's a representative democracy. The Republic refers to its organization: it's a representative democratic system with a federated republican organization to it.

If it weren't a democracy, people wouldn't vote.

if it was a democracy than 51% could vote to have your hand chopped off for no reason.

No, that'd be if it were a direct democracy requiring only a simple majority for the passage of legislation.

But far be it from you to ever know what you're babbling about.

idiot.

Alright, numbnuts. Conservative today is what a liberal was pre-FDR. The Republicans were liberal in the classical Locke-liberal sense until POST FDR. You are still an idiot.