Zone1 Can the US Survive an EMP Strike?

[Billy_Bob]

electrical shocks DO NOT "throw you across the room". That is a popular myth.

Most lethal level electrical shocks simply cause a person to go rigid and then collapse.

Most electricians understand the basic rule of keeping one hand in your pocket when working on high voltage.

You are correct about becoming "locked in" by your muscles in complete contraction. What your wrong about is a high voltage spike like a capacitor discharging. These causes rapid contraction and release of the muscles. it is this release that throws people across rooms. Many persons hit with 480vac, who are not in full contact with the buss or line, will respond like someone hit with a voltage spike. They are hit and then as they separate from the voltage, they release. This involuntary muscle response will throw them across the room. The issue is two points of contact versus one point of contact. This is why when I train people in the physics of this, they are taught to keep one hand in their pocket. With a single point of contact they can be freed from the power source. Idiots with one hand on the grounded portion of the box and playing in the box with the other will be locked in and will die when the voltage passes through their heart.

If you have ever had to defibrillate a person, you will understand how this works. This is how your human heart is "shocked" into resetting and restarting.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Small towns 100 miles or more from a major city is where the most will survive. The more isolated they are, the safer they are. At least for the first few months.
Major cities would turn into mass murder on steroids.
Nice neighborhoods will be the first to be attacked, and that would happen in the first 24 hours.
Roaming gangs looking to both survive and capitalize on a disaster will be the first to organize and stick together. While everyone else is huddling around their fireplace. They will be gathering in the 100s making their plans.

I think it'll take far longer than 24 hours.
Most people dont have a clue about EMP's so they'd sit around until it became apparent the power wasn't coming back on anytime soon.
And without info coming in it would take awhile for them to finally realize it.
With the vast majority of vehicles dying preventing bugging out your best bet would be hardening your home.
Although that would be tough since there's no going to the Home Depot and buying supplies.
With the time you had it'd be best to find some neighbors who are like minded.
In my case we dont really associate with our neighbors since they're all stuck up rich people.
I dont think they'd have any idea what to do anyway,and I'd be hesitant to put up a flyer and doing interviews.
I'm sure there are some people in our neighborhood who would fit the bill but finding them would be problematic.

 

[toobfreak]

This is why when I train people in the physics of this, they are taught to keep one hand in their pocket.

It all comes mostly down to pretty basic common sense stuff, Bob. It is the current that kills, not the voltage.

Here are a few guidelines from my apocryphal book on How To Work Safely To Live Another Day For Profit and Fun on things generally NOT to do:

 

[Billy_Bob]

It all comes mostly down to pretty basic common sense stuff, Bob. It is the current that kills, not the voltage.

Here are a few guidelines from my apocryphal book on How To Work Safely To Live Another Day For Profit and Fun on things generally NOT to do:


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Oh man... Darwin awards..


Back to can we as a society survive in a power less, communication less world. If so, how long?

 

[toobfreak]

Oh man... Darwin awards..
Back to can we as a society survive in a power less, communication less world. If so, how long?

I give 10% of humanity an excellent chance of surviving: mostly those in primitive areas already with few modern conveniences used to living off the land by necessity and those in rural communities who never were very far from living off the land at least some of the time.

I give doomsday preppers about a 50% chance. About half of them will be prepared enough to survive a year or two until supplies run out.

Depending on conditions and time of year, I give about 80% or more of the elderly, sick and disabled about a week or two to survive; maybe a month.

Of the remaining 65% of humanity, half of them will die within a few months killed either attacking others for their supplies, or killed by attackers while defending their supplies. A few will survive longer until killed or they run out of others to prey on.

About 80-90% of those in high federal government jobs will survive in special bunkers.

That leaves by my estimate about a third of humanity that will survive about 6 months to a year, down to about 15% after a year and longer.

YMMV.

 

[Dayton3]

Most electricians understand the basic rule of keeping one hand in your pocket when working on high voltage.

You are correct about becoming "locked in" by your muscles in complete contraction. What your wrong about is a high voltage spike like a capacitor discharging. These causes rapid contraction and release of the muscles. it is this release that throws people across rooms. Many persons hit with 480vac, who are not in full contact with the buss or line, will respond like someone hit with a voltage spike. They are hit and then as they separate from the voltage, they release. This involuntary muscle response will throw them across the room. The issue is two points of contact versus one point of contact. This is why when I train people in the physics of this, they are taught to keep one hand in their pocket. With a single point of contact they can be freed from the power source. Idiots with one hand on the grounded portion of the box and playing in the box with the other will be locked in and will die when the voltage passes through their heart.

If you have ever had to defibrillate a person, you will understand how this works. This is how your human heart is "shocked" into resetting and restarting.

defibrillation does not "restart" the heart. Only drugs injected can do that. Defibrillation halts (rarely) a heart from "fibrillating". Basically, the heart muscle is cramping.

 

[toobfreak]

defibrillation does not "restart" the heart. Only drugs injected can do that.

Sorry but many of the people whose hearts stop through some accident, drowning, etc., are often restarted again with CPR and pounding on the chest.

Defibrillation halts (rarely) a heart from "fibrillating". Basically, the heart muscle is cramping.

Fibrillation is the action of rapid, irregular beating. In such cases, the heart muscle may spasm and beat rapidly yet uncontrollably so that no actual blood is pumped. The defibrillator shocks the heart muscle to electrically override the fibrillation long enough to allow normal beating to resume once lactic acid levels are restored.

But none of this contradicts Bob's original statements!

 

[Billy_Bob]

defibrillation does not "restart" the heart. Only drugs injected can do that. Defibrillation halts (rarely) a heart from "fibrillating". Basically, the heart muscle is cramping.

I spent over 18 years as a paramedic while I was serving in law enforcement. You are incorrect in your assertion on only medications reviving the heart. Many conduction problems between the SA and AV nodes are reset by an electrical charge and discharge. (Super ventricular tach, ventricular fibrillation, are just two common arrythmias we treat with defibrillation). The paths are polarized, clearing some blockages until you can get a pacer placed. The drugs you speak of, are electrolytes which help with the nerve path function.

Please learn basic human physiology and emergency treatment protocols. There are reasons we do what we do.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Fibrillation is the action of rapid, irregular beating. In such cases, the heart muscle may spasm and beat rapidly yet uncontrollably so that no actual blood is pumped. The defibrillator shocks the heart muscle to electrically override the fibrillation long enough to allow normal beating to resume once lactic acid levels are restored.

Sodium Bicarbonate is the chemical we use to bring the acid/base balance back into a region that electrical conduction can resume through normal pathways. This is usually in a patient who has been in V-Fib or been pulse-less too long.

Human physiology is very complex. Much the same as physics is. Hard sciences can be used in many professions.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I give 10% of humanity an excellent chance of surviving: mostly those in primitive areas already with few modern conveniences used to living off the land by necessity and those in rural communities who never were very far from living off the land at least some of the time.

I give doomsday preppers about a 50% chance. About half of them will be prepared enough to survive a year or two until supplies run out.

Depending on conditions and time of year, I give about 80% or more of the elderly, sick and disabled about a week or two to survive; maybe a month.

Of the remaining 65% of humanity, half of them will die within a few months killed either attacking others for their supplies, or killed by attackers while defending their supplies. A few will survive longer until killed or they run out of others to prey on.

About 80-90% of those in high federal government jobs will survive in special bunkers.

That leaves by my estimate about a third of humanity that will survive about 6 months to a year, down to about 15% after a year and longer.

YMMV.

I used to laugh at many of the Mormon's in Utah growing up. They store a minimum of 2 years food storage. They live off the land around them in many cases to this day. I learned how to can and deal with meats from some of my friends over the years. I learned how-to put-up stocks and rotate/use the oldest first to keep the food usable. Most people today don't have more than a week's supplies of food and have lost the knowledge and ability to live off the land.

I think your assessments on total losses in the first year are very close.

We have lost the ability to be self-sufficient and that is by design of those wanting to control us.

 

[toobfreak]

I think your assessments on total losses in the first year are very close.

Unfortunately Bob, I see most young kids growing up today whose lives are 90% on their cellphones as being a particularly vulnerable lot. If the grid went down, no power, no internet, they would be totally cut off from their entire source of emergency information, such as searching YouTube for a video on how to survive with no power, no food, how to hunt and cook.

Their only hope is if mom and dad are still alive.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Unfortunately Bob, I see most young kids growing up today whose lives are 90% on their cellphones as being a particularly vulnerable lot. If the grid went down, no power, no internet, they would be totally cut off from their entire source of emergency information, such as searching YouTube for a video on how to survive with no power, no food, how to hunt and cook.

Their only hope is if mom and dad are still alive.

I've been teaching my kids for some years now. They know how to can, hunt, fish, and garden. But they have never had to build a garden large enough to survive on. Without the ability to put up these foods and keep them usable it is all a moot point. Sadly, we let ourselves be pushed into this untenable position.

 

[toobfreak]

I've been teaching my kids for some years now. They know how to can, hunt, fish, and garden. But they have never had to build a garden large enough to survive on. Without the ability to put up these foods and keep them usable it is all a moot point. Sadly, we let ourselves be pushed into this untenable position.

Agreed. It is a major failing of public education not teaching people real survival instincts and skills instead of much of the crap they do teach. I used to watch a TV series called Doomsday Preppers I think it was called and many kids are very resistant to survival training, left with the illusion as is apparently much of our elected officials that it is a waste of time and water is just the turn of a faucet away, food is in the frig or at worst, supermarket or drive thru, heat is produced by the thermostat, and power is always right there at the nearest wall outlet. Just press a button.

Despite the occasional disaster from hurricanes, auroras and other things affecting millions, we still live under the illusion that we can manage it all, never thinking but what if all of this artificial infrastructure should fail?

I'm afraid that according to my study and observations, humanity is due at some point for a major reset, imposed on us by nature herself or even our own arrogance. Nature is the master of righting imbalances.

The greatest thing anyone can be taught is the skill of PROBLEM SOLVING; in my youth, I learned how to solve most problems on my own. But these days I'm afraid many are too busy teaching others WHAT to think instead of how to reason out a situation on their own.

And looking at our leadership in DC these day, I fear we are literally walking the precipice right now just BEGGING to be put in our place. I really feel sorry for kids growing up in today's world having never known or probably never will know the freedom and liberty I grew up with.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Agreed. It is a major failing of public education not teaching people real survival instincts and skills instead of much of the crap they do teach. I used to watch a TV series called Doomsday Preppers I think it was called and many kids are very resistant to survival training, left with the illusion as is apparently much of our elected officials that it is a waste of time and water is just the turn of a faucet away, food is in the frig or at worst, supermarket or drive thru, heat is produced by the thermostat, and power is always right there at the nearest wall outlet. Just press a button.

Despite the occasional disaster from hurricanes, auroras and other things affecting millions, we still live under the illusion that we can manage it all, never thinking but what if all of this artificial infrastructure should fail?

I'm afraid that according to my study and observations, humanity is due at some point for a major reset, imposed on us by nature herself or even our own arrogance. Nature is the master of righting imbalances.

The greatest thing anyone can be taught is the skill of PROBLEM SOLVING; in my youth, I learned how to solve most problems on my own. But these days I'm afraid many are too busy teaching others WHAT to think instead of how to reason out a situation on their own.

And looking at our leadership in DC these day, I fear we are literally walking the precipice right now just BEGGING to be put in our place. I really feel sorry for kids growing up in today's world having never known or probably never will know the freedom and liberty I grew up with.

The loss of cognitive thinking skills is how they enslave our youth. If they cannot reason the problem out, they are of little threat to those in power.

The arrogance of our leaders has placed us in great danger. I also fear that their arrogance has set us up for failure. They have set up us up for the total loss of our freedoms. Worse still, I think that is what the democrats/Marxists have been aiming to do for decades.

 

[Batcat]

From the Article:



The October Suprise might not come from democrats. If Putin wanted to, he could employ a high atmosphere nuclear detonation, causing an EMP (Electro-Magnetic-Pulse). IT would send most of the US into darkness very quickly. IF he determines the US did in fact sabotage the Nordstream pipelines, this could be a very real possibility.

It would not be a ground strike, but the devastation and death would be all encompassing very quickly from lack of food, water, and basic necessities. The internal strife would be more devastating than a direct attack and leave the ground ripe for attack and subjugation. With China allied with Putin, nothing is off the table.

If Putin deployed this air burst above international waters, it would have very little effect on the surface, but the EMP would be devastating to over half of the US. IF they deployed two, one east and one west over international water 95% of the US would be in total darkness.

Yes, Putin could strike the U.S. with an EMP attack and basically that’s the end of us. However we have Trident subs lurking in the ocean that would make an end to Russia.

Inside the submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles

Inside the submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles

abcnews.go.com

 

[Billy_Bob]

Yes, Putin could strike the U.S. with an EMP attack and basically that’s the end of us. However we have Trident subs lurking in the ocean that would make an end to Russia.

Inside the submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles

Inside the submarine capable of launching nuclear missiles

abcnews.go.com

But that is not a certainty. Mutually assured destruction may not occur. How would we respond to and EMP but no strike over US territory? I know were playing the what if game. But what if? how will we respond? How would the current admin respond? Lots of What IF..

Would we do the same thing? A limited high-altitude detonation to take out Russian infrastructure? What about the allied China? How would they react? This thing is a very high stakes crap shoot.

 

[Batcat]

But that is not a certainty. Mutually assured destruction may not occur. How would we respond to and EMP but no strike over US territory? I know were playing the what if game. But what if? how will we respond? How would the current admin respond? Lots of What IF..

I feel we would retaliate with an attack on the nation that used the EMP. However with Biden and the democrats in charge who knows.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I feel we would retaliate with an attack on the nation that used the EMP. However with Biden and the democrats in charge who knows.

Let's play the what if game.

What if one of our Trident missile subs did deploy a high altitude burst near or over Russia as retaliation? let's say they inflict the same damage to them as they did to us? Would Putin continue to escalate to MAD? How would our Allies in the region respond to their own infrastructure being damaged by our response?

 

[Batcat]

Let's play the what if game.

What if one of our Trident missile subs did deploy a high altitude burst near or over Russia as retaliation? let's say they inflict the same damage to them as they did to us? Would Putin continue to escalate to MAD? How would our Allies in the region respond to their own infrastructure being damaged by our response?

In my opinion exploding an EMP above the United States would mean we are already in a nuclear war. The enemy obviously wanted to disable the entire power grid which could lend to the death of a high percentage of the people in our nation in a years time. The lack of power could also lead to nuclear reactors melting down and what a nightmare that would be.

After the EMP comes Nuclear Meltdown

An EMP (electro magnetic pulse), if strong enough (and regardless of the source - weaponized or solar), will potentially fry electronics and electronic

modernsurvivalblog.com

 

[22lcidw]

No. It will take nowhere near the level of melting transformers to achieve the goal. All you really need is an EMP enough to fry LV transistor circuits which control everything.

People made the mistake in designing and building our grid to not have any plan in action to harden and protect it despite being aware of the problem for a hundred years. We have literally built our entire infrastructure of operation which we depend on from communication to industry to banking that depends on frail machinery that can be taken out with an EMP of a few volts.

A few decades ago, there were many reports that we could have hardened our electrical grid for 4 billion dollars at the time. But we did not do it. To have a good portion of the grid working means we can restart industries affected by EMP easier.