Canada’s health care system

[Meister]

You wanna accuse people of being liars that's what you're going to get, you ignorant fuckface.

Now that we have that out of the way, debunk the CBO numbers that show Medicare/Medicaid as basically bankrupt, shithead.

You are starting to remind me of Glenn Beck.

Sputtering spittle and little else.

Chris, when you don't have the answers, and your post is what it is....that's nothing more than a lame deflection

 

[Chris]

You wanna accuse people of being liars that's what you're going to get, you ignorant fuckface.

Now that we have that out of the way, debunk the CBO numbers that show Medicare/Medicaid as basically bankrupt, shithead.

You are starting to remind me of Glenn Beck.

Sputtering spittle and little else.

Chris, when you don't have the answers, and your post is what it is....that's nothing more than a lame deflection

Deflection of what?

Medicare is not bankrupt.

 

[AllieBaba]

That already happens with Medicaid. People go to the emergency room for a cold; and we get to pay $150 for them to do so. or they come in claiming to be in pain and they are actually drug seekers. They think the medical staff doesn't know which drugs are derivatives of street drugs.

That doesn't happen with Medicaid as much as it happens with people who don't qualify for any sort of assistance.

Medicaid needs a deductible to discourage this kind of behavior.

Part of the problem is when their kids get sick, they have to wait to get them into see their assigned physician.

Or often, they have tooth problems that their medicaid won't cover, and in agonising pain, they head for the ER. Where they're told they're med seeking. Well no shit they're med seeking, they're in fucking pain and can't get treatment. Dental offices aren't obligated, as hospitals are, to provide treatment to ppl who can't pay.

 

[AllieBaba]

In addition, The average life span in Canada is 2-3 years longer than the average life span in the United States.

Source: World Health Organization

And notice the differences in health care costs here:

Not to mention,

Per Capita, national health expenditures in the United States are as follows, as of 2007:

Private: $3,991.00
Public: $3,429.00

As can be seen here

Source: Dpt of Health and Human Services

In addition, none of that has shit to do with the quality of the medical system in question, any more than it did the other numerous times you tried these lies.

It has a lot to do with the genetics of the people who live in Canada. They don't have the number of blacks, who have shorter life spans, or Indians, who also suffer disproportionately from diabetes and heart and liver ailments and have a shorter life span, or Hispanics, who come here as adults with already progressive illnesses. Including TB. We also have a higher murder rate, which affects those numbers.

None of those things have anything whatsoever to do with the quality of health care in the US.

 

[Meister]

You are starting to remind me of Glenn Beck.

Sputtering spittle and little else.

Chris, when you don't have the answers, and your post is what it is....that's nothing more than a lame deflection

Deflection of what?

Medicare is not bankrupt.

Only because it's backed by our tax dollars.....in the private sector it would be bankrupt. It certainly isn't breaking even. There are billions of dollars every year in fraud. What would you call that? Solvent?

 

[Polk]

Mayo and Massachusetts General are for the eeeeevvvvilllll "rich people".

The Medical Marxists aren't interested in making every hospital the best.... They're into equality and unformity in mediocrity and lack.

We already have national health insurance, it's called Medicare.

Yaeh...And you apparently haven't received the memo that it's bankrupt.

But I guess therer is still room in steerage on the Titanic, huh??

Most of Medicare's long-run cost issues come from the exploding cost of health care. So it's not like the rest of the system is immune from the problem that is "bankrupting" Medicare.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We already have national health insurance, it's called Medicare.

Yaeh...And you apparently haven't received the memo that it's bankrupt.

But I guess therer is still room in steerage on the Titanic, huh??

Most of Medicare's long-run cost issues come from the exploding cost of health care. So it's not like the rest of the system is immune from the problem that is "bankrupting" Medicare.

Well, you should see this one coming.

Prove it.

 

[Chris]

Yaeh...And you apparently haven't received the memo that it's bankrupt.

But I guess therer is still room in steerage on the Titanic, huh??

Most of Medicare's long-run cost issues come from the exploding cost of health care. So it's not like the rest of the system is immune from the problem that is "bankrupting" Medicare.

Well, you should see this one coming.

Prove it.

Prove what? Prove that every other industrialized country in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare?

It's posted here in this thread!

 

[elvis]

Most of Medicare's long-run cost issues come from the exploding cost of health care. So it's not like the rest of the system is immune from the problem that is "bankrupting" Medicare.

Well, you should see this one coming.

Prove it.

Prove what? Prove that every other industrialized country in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare?

It's posted here in this thread!

and their taxes are double or triple what ours are.

 

[Emma]

Daily Show: Drag Me to Health - Universal Health Care Video

 

[Oddball]

We already have national health insurance, it's called Medicare.

Yaeh...And you apparently haven't received the memo that it's bankrupt.

But I guess therer is still room in steerage on the Titanic, huh??

Most of Medicare's long-run cost issues come from the exploding cost of health care. So it's not like the rest of the system is immune from the problem that is "bankrupting" Medicare.

Medicare/Medicaid's long-run costs have come from the fact that politicians and bureaucrats cannot control costs, because offering something -anything- for "free" will always atrtract more moochers than you projected (see: the clunker program), and that there's no financial penalty to be paid for making bad decisions.

You might have a case if you could name the first time any federal program came in under budger and delivered a better product than you could get out in the real world, but you can't.

 

[Emma]

Yaeh...And you apparently haven't received the memo that it's bankrupt.

But I guess therer is still room in steerage on the Titanic, huh??

Most of Medicare's long-run cost issues come from the exploding cost of health care. So it's not like the rest of the system is immune from the problem that is "bankrupting" Medicare.

Medicare/Medicaid's long-run costs have come from the fact that politicians and bureaucrats cannot control costs, because offering something -anything- for "free" will always atrtract more moochers than you projected (see: the clunker program), and that there's no financial penalty to be paid for making bad decisions.

You might have a case if you could name the first time any federal program came in under budger and delivered a better product than you could get out in the real world, but you can't.

WIC Works « Poverty & Policy


According to a report by the Partnership for America’s Economic Success, every $1.00 spent on WIC saves as much as $3.13 in Medicaid costs, plus significant other costs linked to the impacts of food insecurity.

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/Final Online Brief.pdf

http://www.frac.org/pdf/cnwic.pdf

 

[MaggieMae]

Is there a record for the number of limp talking points and logical fallacies in one post??

At your leisure, you might listen to Canada's former health care administrator confirm all of the points made and debunk some of the myths voiced by the callers to this program.

C-SPAN Video Player - Dr. Robert Ouelett, Frm. Pres., Canadian Medical Ass'n.

Because if anyone just oooooooozes credibility, it's a gubmint politician and/or bureaucrat!!

So continue to be stupidly uninformed and take your cues from Limbaugh & Co for all I care. I don't expect that any expert on such matters would sway the likes of someone like you.

 

[MaggieMae]

CANADA’S HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

The poorest run system of all countries, still better than ours and most Canadians are satisfied with the care they receive even though Canada’s President of the Medical Association say it need improvement. If we had a HC system comparable to Canada it would be better than what we now have.
Germany’s people pay 7.5% of their income for HC and it works to their satisfaction.
All of the HC systems do not work the same and we should not lump then into one system. Certainly not use the poorest run system as an example. Which turns out better than what we have.
Again, as usual, right wingers falsely use Canada’s HC system as a scare tactic to control people into opposing any healthcare plan by the present administration.
There are not waits in Canada any longer than we have here with private HC.
Services are not limited or spread thin.
The rich, poor and elderly get the same quality of medical care. No death panels.
Radical anti-Obama right wingers will use any means to get the people, even the uninsured, to oppose what they refer to as “Obamacare” as if Obama wrote the rules of the HC plan along with a few senators so know nothing of the medical system.
Right wingers and their supporter will oppose anything the Obama administration attempt to do and want to take the country back hundreds of years. “Ain’t happening” We are moving forward with or without the radical white right wing racist. Town hall meeting, no matter were they are, are predominantly white.
Even if we had a HC system comparable to Canada’s, the poorest run of all systems, it would still be better than what we, the greatest nation in the world, have now.

Most of you cannot wait to put your parents in government rest homes and your mentally disabled into government run mental institutions or halfway houses.
Those who oppose of Socialized medicine the strongest are on Welfare, Social Security, SSI, Medicare and Medicaid. "Thou doest protest to loudly"

Wow, you're just all over the board with your, "My position is more moral than yours, you suck for not agreeing with me, I can't explain why I'm better but I AM" bullshit, aren'tcha?

In response to your last paragraph, which strangely was the most linear thing you said, may I just cordially invite you to kiss my ass?

How profound...

 

[Emma]

At your leisure, you might listen to Canada's former health care administrator confirm all of the points made and debunk some of the myths voiced by the callers to this program.

C-SPAN Video Player - Dr. Robert Ouelett, Frm. Pres., Canadian Medical Ass'n.

Because if anyone just oooooooozes credibility, it's a gubmint politician and/or bureaucrat!!

So continue to be stupidly uninformed and take your cues from Limbaugh & Co for all I care. I don't expect that any expert on such matters would sway the likes of someone like you.

Further, CMA is a voluntary professional organization.

 

[MaggieMae]

And as for the Cancer survival rates thing, I have pointed this out in multiple threads preceding this one, but...

...In overall surviability rates for all diseases, Canada beats the US hands down. Here are some examples:

It has been pointed out that the United State has better survival rates than Canada in cancer victims. This is true, by about 3-4%, it would seem.

Much ado has been made in the Right-Wing media and on these boards about this fact, and it has been held up as an example of their opinion that US Health Care is better than Canadian health care.

Well, Cancer is just one disease. It is a leading cause of death, but not THE leading cause of death. So let's look at comparisons in other diseases, shall we?

Circulatory disease deaths per 100,000:
Canada: 219
United States: 265

Original Source: OECD Health Data 2003 and Health Data 2002. Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, Australia's Health 2002

Digestive disease deaths per 100,000:Canada: 17.4
United States: 20.5

Original Source: World Health Organization

Infant mortality rate per 1,000 live birthsCanada: 5.08
United States: 6.3

Original Source: CIA World Factbooks

Intestinal diseases death rate
Canada: 0.3%
United States: 7.3%

Original Source: World Health Organization

Respiratory disease child death rate per 100,000Canada: 0.62
United States: 40.43

Original Source: World Health Organization

Heart disease deaths per 100,000:Canada: 94.9
United States: 106.5

Original Source: World Health Organization

HIV deaths per million people:Canada: 47.423
United States: 48.141

Original Source: CIA World Factbooks

And here's an interesting fact:

Proability of not reaching age 60:Canada: 9.5%
United States: 12.8%

Original Source: CIA World Factbooks

And as I've pointed out in virtually all of those threads, you're full of shit, misrepresenting statistics, and out-and-out lying.

So here we are again.

And so you just expect everyone to believe YOU rather than the facts posted. Incredible. A 100% rant against a 100% set of facts.

 

[Toro]

Health outcomes in Canada and the US.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...are/83876-health-outcomes-in-canada-v-us.html

 

[JFK_USA]

Since when do you have a right to the services of another and at the expense of everyone else??

Since about the time the first government taxed it's first citizens to provide services for the collective society.

So...since a really, really long time ago if we're going to be that general.

I'd suggest being more specific if you want to start arguing what rights do and do not, or should and should not, exist.

Exactly, People have a right to life. I mean conservatives fight for this "right to life" for abortion yet as soon as the baby is safe, they don't deserve good, affordable healthcare?

Please tell me where I am missing the point where we shouldn't be concerned about the rising healthcare costs which puts people in bankruptcy and we have one of the worst healthcare systems in developed countries.

 

[Yukon]

I am a self-employeed Canadian. Last year I earned, with pension money from my ex-employer, approximately $94.000.00. I paid $12,000.00 income tax (federal and provincial combined).

I have medicare, a drug plan which pays 80%, a dental plan which pays 85% of the ODA rate, and I get 150.00 every two years for eye-glasses.

If you think I'm a socialist that's OK with me - you should be so lucky !

 

[Cecilie1200]

Since when do you have a right to the services of another and at the expense of everyone else??

Since about the time the first government taxed it's first citizens to provide services for the collective society.

So...since a really, really long time ago if we're going to be that general.

I'd suggest being more specific if you want to start arguing what rights do and do not, or should and should not, exist.

Exactly, People have a right to life. I mean conservatives fight for this "right to life" for abortion yet as soon as the baby is safe, they don't deserve good, affordable healthcare?

Please tell me where I am missing the point where we shouldn't be concerned about the rising healthcare costs which puts people in bankruptcy and we have one of the worst healthcare systems in developed countries.

People have a right to life, aka the right not to be killed. They don't have a right to the products and services of others to extend or improve that life. THOSE have to be purchased.

The several points you are missing are that a) it's not the free market causing rising healthcare costs, because b) we don't have a free market in healthcare in this country, c) the whole "healthcare bankrupting people" scenario is so much marsh gas being spewed as a scare tactic, and d) "worst healthcare system in developed countries" is a flat-out lie, debunked numerous times, at least once directly to you, and you stubbornly, deliberately default back to it as though nothing has been said because you don't WANT to hear anything but what you've decided is BY GOD going to be the truth whether it is or not.

There are none so blind as those who will not see, and none so ignorant as those who've decided stupidity is their God-given right.