Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[georgephillip]

Neither does mine, Mr. Strawman.

Does your vision of democracy perceive a threat from private power as FDR described it?

"[T]he liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.[3][4][5] [...]

"Statistics of the Bureau of Internal Revenue reveal the following amazing figures for 1935: 'Ownership of corporate assets: Of all corporations reporting from every part of the Nation, one-tenth of 1 percent of them owned 52 percent of the assets of all of them.'"

Corporate capitalism - Wikipedia

 

[bripat9643]

Does your vision of democracy perceive a threat from private power as FDR described it?

"[T]he liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.[3][4][5] [...]

"Statistics of the Bureau of Internal Revenue reveal the following amazing figures for 1935: 'Ownership of corporate assets: Of all corporations reporting from every part of the Nation, one-tenth of 1 percent of them owned 52 percent of the assets of all of them.'"

Corporate capitalism - Wikipedia

A smart person feared FDR more than any "private power."

 

[georgephillip]

That's because government is for sale. When government meddles in the economy, business meddles in government

Every economy is planned.
If it isn't planned democratically, it will be directed by private bankers.
Private central bankers protect financial interests instead of the economy as a whole.

"Protecting financial interests means sustaining growth in their product, debt overhead, instead of protecting the economy from finance and its bad loans that create a burdensome overhead for families and business."


Debt and Power | Michael Hudson

"Until 1913 in the United States the Treasury did almost everything that the Federal Reserve is doing today. It moved money around the country. It had 12 districts.

"It intervened in markets.

"It did what a central bank did.

"But then JP Morgan and the bankers essentially anticipated Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, and pressed for a privatized central bank run out of Wall Street, Boston and Philadelphia, not Washington.

They excluded Washington from the Fed’s board so as not to let the Treasury have a voice on it.

"Their logic was that banking should only be regulated by the private sector, because only in that way could they turn the government from a democracy into an oligarchy."

 

[georgephillip]

ou're fucking around playing head games. That's all marxist twats can do because they're selling a steaming pile of totalitarian horseshit.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Every economy is planned.
If it isn't planned democratically, it will be directed by private bankers.
Private central bankers protect financial interests instead of the economy as a whole.

"Protecting financial interests means sustaining growth in their product, debt overhead, instead of protecting the economy from finance and its bad loans that create a burdensome overhead for families and business."


Debt and Power | Michael Hudson

"Until 1913 in the United States the Treasury did almost everything that the Federal Reserve is doing today. It moved money around the country. It had 12 districts.

"It intervened in markets.

"It did what a central bank did.

"But then JP Morgan and the bankers essentially anticipated Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, and pressed for a privatized central bank run out of Wall Street, Boston and Philadelphia, not Washington.

They excluded Washington from the Fed’s board so as not to let the Treasury have a voice on it.

"Their logic was that banking should only be regulated by the private sector, because only in that way could they turn the government from a democracy into an oligarchy."

Privatized? LOL!

 

[georgephillip]

o make profits, capitalists have to satisfy the needs of customers.

Capitalists profit by privatizing profit and socializing cost.

 

[georgephillip]

Tax and regulate too much, pesky corporations move away.
Hard to tax something that isn't there anymore.

Problems of Capitalism - Economics Help

 

[georgephillip]

That's the end game, to be sure. Totalitarian rule is your hard on.

Majority rule is not totalitarian, but your side offers little else:

Private tyrant?

 

[georgephillip]

So long as the receiving bank trusted the issuing bank,

Are you that fucking stupid?
What possible motive would one private banker have for trusting another WITHOUT fear of government prosecution?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalists profit by privatizing profit and socializing cost.

If you don't have a useful, in demand product, you'll never have any sales.

That's why you never made any money.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Problems of Capitalism - Economics Help

You have the chart for communism?
Probably 30 pages long, eh tovarisch?

 

[bripat9643]

Capitalists profit by privatizing profit and socializing cost.

How did Capitalists do that in 1910?

 

[dblack]

Majority rule is not totalitarian ...

But socialism, ultimately is. Democracy is fine when its scope and use is strictly constrained - ie it's only used when necessary. But socialists want "both society and the economy run democratically" - and that's everything. That's what's totalitarian about your goals.

but your side offers little else:
Private tyrant?

I don't play the "sides" game. But how about this? The day the Koch brothers, or any other "private tyrants", have you arrested, be sure and post. I'll admit you were right. For now, you're not.

 

[Flash]

 

[georgephillip]

The modern government subsidized economists all oppose the gold standard because it prevents the government from stealing your savings.

So now Wall Street banks and corporations steal your homes, savings, and pensions?

Is that your idea of

"William McKinley ran for president on the basis of the gold standard."

Gold standard - Wikipedia

 

[georgephillip]

hat's irrelevant. You claimed there were socialist libertarians. That's a contradiction in terms.

Only for ignorant, red-necked crackers
Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia

 

[georgephillip]

which is, I guess, why they feel justified in using the word 'libertarian'. But yeah, socialism contradicts any conception of liberty that I know of.

What's capital's conception of liberty?

Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia

"Libertarian socialism is anti-capitalist and can be distinguished from capitalist and right-libertarian principles which concentrate economic power in the hands of those who own the most capital."

 

[georgephillip]

Slavery couldn't invent capitalism anymore than the alphabet could write the Bible. Capitalize didn't need slavery, as was irrefutably demonstrated by the fact that it continued on after the war when slavery had been abolished.

"The bodies of the enslaved served as America’s largest financial asset, and they were forced to maintain America’s most exported commodity. In 60 years, from 1801 to 1862, the amount of cotton picked daily by an enslaved person increased 400 percent.

"The profits from cotton propelled the US into a position as one of the leading economies in the world, and made the South its most prosperous region.

"The ownership of enslaved people increased wealth for Southern planters so much that by the dawn of the Civil War, the Mississippi River Valley had more millionaires per capita than any other region."

How slavery became America’s first big business

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 60 years, from 1801 to 1862, the amount of cotton picked daily by an enslaved person increased 400 percent.

Cotton gin!!!

 

[bripat9643]

"The bodies of the enslaved served as America’s largest financial asset, and they were forced to maintain America’s most exported commodity. In 60 years, from 1801 to 1862, the amount of cotton picked daily by an enslaved person increased 400 percent.

"The profits from cotton propelled the US into a position as one of the leading economies in the world, and made the South its most prosperous region.

"The ownership of enslaved people increased wealth for Southern planters so much that by the dawn of the Civil War, the Mississippi River Valley had more millionaires per capita than any other region."

How slavery became America’s first big business

America's economic success was not solely due to cotton. That's a commie myth