Capitalism is...Slavery; Democracy is Not

[georgephillip]

Nope. you're wrong. Progressives believe in modern slavery which is welfare. Conservatives believe that if you can't take of yourself society will take care of you. That is what makes us human. No conservative was in favour of Bush and Obama's bailing out of the banks, AIG, and the auto companies. That was progressives and union operatives fighting for that. We were all in favour of all of them failing.

We also want to see those same individuals in prison where they belong. You, though are able to take care of yourself. You choose not to beause you are a lazy bum. Bums live under bridges and go hungry.

I think you're wrong about welfare.

Slavery is when you've worked hard all your life yet you are wiped out financially by catastrophic medical expenses stemming from corporate-written law which elevates profit over everything.

When you say "no conservative was in favor of Bush and Obama's bailing out the banks..." that's only true if you define "conservative" as someone who opposed the bail outs.

Are Dick Cheney and Hank Paulson now considered RINOs?

There were progressives and union operative encouraging the bail outs, just as there were conservative Wall Street executives doing the same thing.

It's a class issue.
Most of the rich supported bail outs because their wealth was increased at the expense of taxpayers.
Socialize the cost; Privatize the profit.

Finally, we're going to have to agree to disagree about bums and bridges.
You see yourself as playing by the rules and working hard.

I see the rules as blue prints for slavery.

Slavery now is self imposed. Free people have the ability to do as they please when they please. Slaves don't. Slaves are not able to do as they wish or travel as they wish when they wish. Their masters don't allow it. Their masters only give them enough for subsistence level survival. That is welfare. Welfare is the new paradigm of slavery.

You claim I am a slave because i worked hard "for the man" and now I have enough money I can do what I wan to when I want to. For th record I worked "for the man" for all of two years. After that I worked for a environmental company till I struck off on my own. I have been either self employed or teaching (once again "for the man") for 40 years. Well, actually I am now basically retired but I still work for those in need (usually in cases against "the man") and have the luxury of travelling to Europe for races when I wish or as we did last month I took in both the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix races and went to the French Open in between.

I don't see how that makes me a slave. I see you as the slave because you can't do anything I can do.

"There is a slavery that no legislation can abolish, -- the slavery of caste. G. W. Cable."

Your wealth provides you with opportunities I don't have.

Based on what you've written, you've earned it honorably, which is no small accomplishment, imo, since the economic system you've worked in is designed to reward greed and avarice first.

I hope you've taken steps to ensure what you've earned against the ravages of inflation, one way our economic elites could choose to "reduce " the national debt without adversely affecting non-dollar denominated wealth.

Inflation is tricky to control, and if it gets "free", it is capable of turning every $10 bill in the country into a $5...or worse.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) - The ARTFL Project

 

[westwall]

I think you're wrong about welfare.

Slavery is when you've worked hard all your life yet you are wiped out financially by catastrophic medical expenses stemming from corporate-written law which elevates profit over everything.

When you say "no conservative was in favor of Bush and Obama's bailing out the banks..." that's only true if you define "conservative" as someone who opposed the bail outs.

Are Dick Cheney and Hank Paulson now considered RINOs?

There were progressives and union operative encouraging the bail outs, just as there were conservative Wall Street executives doing the same thing.

It's a class issue.
Most of the rich supported bail outs because their wealth was increased at the expense of taxpayers.
Socialize the cost; Privatize the profit.

Finally, we're going to have to agree to disagree about bums and bridges.
You see yourself as playing by the rules and working hard.

I see the rules as blue prints for slavery.

Slavery now is self imposed. Free people have the ability to do as they please when they please. Slaves don't. Slaves are not able to do as they wish or travel as they wish when they wish. Their masters don't allow it. Their masters only give them enough for subsistence level survival. That is welfare. Welfare is the new paradigm of slavery.

You claim I am a slave because i worked hard "for the man" and now I have enough money I can do what I wan to when I want to. For th record I worked "for the man" for all of two years. After that I worked for a environmental company till I struck off on my own. I have been either self employed or teaching (once again "for the man") for 40 years. Well, actually I am now basically retired but I still work for those in need (usually in cases against "the man") and have the luxury of travelling to Europe for races when I wish or as we did last month I took in both the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix races and went to the French Open in between.

I don't see how that makes me a slave. I see you as the slave because you can't do anything I can do.

"There is a slavery that no legislation can abolish, -- the slavery of caste. G. W. Cable."

Your wealth provides you with opportunities I don't have.

Based on what you've written, you've earned it honorably, which is no small accomplishment, imo, since the economic system you've worked in is designed to reward greed and avarice first.

I hope you've taken steps to ensure what you've earned against the ravages of inflation, one way our economic elites could choose to "reduce " the national debt without adversely affecting non-dollar denominated wealth.

Inflation is tricky to control, and if it gets "free", it is capable of turning every $10 bill in the country into a $5...or worse.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) - The ARTFL Project

You're correct. When I was born there were many doors closed to me. many of those doors I could never hope to open, but there were many that I did open. I was able to carve a very comfortable life for myself and my family because of that.

You did not. You in fact closed doors that were open to you. You made the choice to not learn a skill. You made the choice to not obtain an education. In other words you made yourself the slave you are.

As far as the rest I am well prepared for any eventuality. Once again showing the difference between the citizen and the slave. You fear your own shadow, I don't. You fear for everything. I have prepared my family for any eventuality. When disaster comes we will be able to help our neighbors and if the caca really hits the rotary oscillator we are prepped for that too.

Once again, who's the slave? The person who is self sufficient or the person who is dependent on the "man" for his bread?

This system is the best on the planet for allowing the small fry to make good. If you have a modicum of brains and a willingness to work you can do almost anything. It is virtually impossible to do what I did in Europe. It is impossible in Africa or Asia to do it without having to murder people.

 

[the_IRF]

.

I don't know if you will find this useful education addressing the concept of slavery, and one of its idiotic results that winds up using a lot of resources and polluting the air i breath, or not.

NEW SATELLITE PICTURES OF CHINA'S GHOST CITIES [link]

Plus a whole lot more! [link]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwvu2EsLmZQ&feature=player_detailpage"]Zhengzhou Zhengdong New Developing Zone Firework display for another Ghost City[/ame]

.

 

[georgephillip]

Slavery now is self imposed. Free people have the ability to do as they please when they please. Slaves don't. Slaves are not able to do as they wish or travel as they wish when they wish. Their masters don't allow it. Their masters only give them enough for subsistence level survival. That is welfare. Welfare is the new paradigm of slavery.

You claim I am a slave because i worked hard "for the man" and now I have enough money I can do what I wan to when I want to. For th record I worked "for the man" for all of two years. After that I worked for a environmental company till I struck off on my own. I have been either self employed or teaching (once again "for the man") for 40 years. Well, actually I am now basically retired but I still work for those in need (usually in cases against "the man") and have the luxury of travelling to Europe for races when I wish or as we did last month I took in both the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix races and went to the French Open in between.

I don't see how that makes me a slave. I see you as the slave because you can't do anything I can do.

"There is a slavery that no legislation can abolish, -- the slavery of caste. G. W. Cable."

Your wealth provides you with opportunities I don't have.

Based on what you've written, you've earned it honorably, which is no small accomplishment, imo, since the economic system you've worked in is designed to reward greed and avarice first.

I hope you've taken steps to ensure what you've earned against the ravages of inflation, one way our economic elites could choose to "reduce " the national debt without adversely affecting non-dollar denominated wealth.

Inflation is tricky to control, and if it gets "free", it is capable of turning every $10 bill in the country into a $5...or worse.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) - The ARTFL Project

You're correct. When I was born there were many doors closed to me. many of those doors I could never hope to open, but there were many that I did open. I was able to carve a very comfortable life for myself and my family because of that.

You did not. You in fact closed doors that were open to you. You made the choice to not learn a skill. You made the choice to not obtain an education. In other words you made yourself the slave you are.

As far as the rest I am well prepared for any eventuality. Once again showing the difference between the citizen and the slave. You fear your own shadow, I don't. You fear for everything. I have prepared my family for any eventuality. When disaster comes we will be able to help our neighbors and if the caca really hits the rotary oscillator we are prepped for that too.

Once again, who's the slave? The person who is self sufficient or the person who is dependent on the "man" for his bread?

This system is the best on the planet for allowing the small fry to make good. If you have a modicum of brains and a willingness to work you can do almost anything. It is virtually impossible to do what I did in Europe. It is impossible in Africa or Asia to do it without having to murder people.

You jump to conclusions as adroitly as you jump through "the man's" hoops.

What doors have I closed?
How do you know I "made the choice to not learn a skill?"
Because I haven't earned enough money to watch The French Open in person?

In fact I've devoted a significant amount of my time to acquiring an education.
From the 70s when I finished 2 years at a Community College before transferring (briefly) to Cal Berkeley.

I took dozens of screenwriting classes through UCLA Extension in the 90s and have just finished my financial aid paperwork for returning to college full time this fall.

You repeatedly make the classical slave mistake of conflating any learning that doesn't translate into material reward with not learning. Which probably explains your arrogance when commenting on economic systems you know nothing about.

If "(t)his system is the best on the planet for allowing the small fry to make good.." explain why Germany is growing much faster than the US with a lower unemployment rate. 'Think it might have anything to do with a real hourly wage increase of almost 30% since 1985?

How does that rate compare to wage-slave stagnation in the "Land of the Free?"

 

[georgephillip]

.

I don't know if you will find this useful education addressing the concept of slavery, and one of its idiotic results that winds up using a lot of resources and polluting the air i breath, or not.

NEW SATELLITE PICTURES OF CHINA'S GHOST CITIES [link]

Plus a whole lot more! [link]

Zhengzhou Zhengdong New Developing Zone Firework display for another Ghost City

.

Have you seen any aerial photos of US FEMA camps?

Might there be a connection with China's Ghosts?

 

[the_IRF]

.

I don't know if you will find this useful education addressing the concept of slavery, and one of its idiotic results that winds up using a lot of resources and polluting the air i breath, or not.

NEW SATELLITE PICTURES OF CHINA'S GHOST CITIES [link]

Plus a whole lot more! [link]

Zhengzhou Zhengdong New Developing Zone Firework display for another Ghost City

.

Have you seen any aerial photos of US FEMA camps?

Might there be a connection with China's Ghosts?

GeorgePhillip,

Thank you for your insightful conjecture. Interesting. I hadn't thought of the potential connection.

The confusion that is coming to the world's on a global level will most probably produce considerable fury 'at the street level' ... which can only lead to conflict that can all too easily escalate to god knows what levels.

For years i have been saying to a DoD and DHS friend of mine that the Pentagon is going to have to pick its rugby jersey and choose sides ...

I sympathize with the quandary that 'leadership' is in. If i were them, sworn to protect and defend the Constitution of These United States of America, how would i parse the issue that may well be coming to roost all too soon.

May i ask, how would you address your mind to that question? How should we all get our minds to crawl around that decision taking challenge? Then, how do you execute whatever decision you come up with?

Were you to only be left with honor's demand that you usurp the standing government and take the Constitution to safety under a coup of the state, and hence martial law. How do you do that? What infrastructure of assent of 'authoritative' personalities do you do that with? How do you keep the "bread-truck's" economy functioning?

Gosh, ... see what you went and did ... you got my mind's mouth running its fingers typing away, and now look where we are 'Ollie'!

Robert ~

 

[dblack]

The confusion that is coming to the world's on a global level will most probably produce considerable fury 'at the street level' ... which can only lead to conflict that can all too easily escalate to god knows what levels.
...

IRF, I keep trying to read your posts, but I must confess I have no idea what you're going on about. Either i'm dim, or your posting style is very oblique. Either way, I'm wondering, are you trying to make some point that I'm just not getting?

 

[the_IRF]

The confusion that is coming to the world's on a global level will most probably produce considerable fury 'at the street level' ... which can only lead to conflict that can all too easily escalate to god knows what levels.
...

IRF, I keep trying to read your posts, but I must confess I have no idea what you're going on about. Either i'm dim, or your posting style is very oblique. Either way, I'm wondering, are you trying to make some point that I'm just not getting?

I think my intention was to be oblique with the purpose of allowing others to make their observations as to what might proceed at the street level and thus become the unwitting foil triggering the "FEMA Camp Protocols" so touted by those so disposed to take notice of that problem, which may or may not be in the offing.

My apologies for not being with the program here enough.

Robert ~

 

[dblack]

I think my intention was to be oblique with the purpose of allowing others to make their observations as to what might proceed at the street level and thus become the unwitting foil triggering the "FEMA Camp Protocols" so touted by those so disposed to take notice of that problem, which may or may not be in the offing.

My apologies for not being with the program here enough.

Robert ~

Ah.. ok. I can appreciate oblique. Just not when I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm still curious what point you were trying to make with the photos. Offhand, pertaining to the topic of the thread, it seems like an indication of the kind of inefficiencies inevitable in a large-scale, command economy.

 

[the_IRF]

I think my intention was to be oblique with the purpose of allowing others to make their observations as to what might proceed at the street level and thus become the unwitting foil triggering the "FEMA Camp Protocols" so touted by those so disposed to take notice of that problem, which may or may not be in the offing.

My apologies for not being with the program here enough.

Robert ~

Ah.. ok. I can appreciate oblique. Just not when I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm still curious what point you were trying to make with the photos. Offhand, pertaining to the topic of the thread, it seems like an indication of the kind of inefficiencies inevitable in a large-scale, command economy.

Agreed. The command economy would be the direct cause. My point is that here we are with everything going to hell on us. We as the 'slave' to the command economic system set up by the fiat banksters and the sociopathic cheats and criminals of Wall Street (and their minion servants in the media and political office) are the 'slavers' responsible for this visual result of the failed 'shelter' economy we live in here ... the shelter of our supposed slave fields where we are supposed to work to house ourselves etc. without any real sovereignty to succeed through our own industry per the Constitutional guarantee to pursue (successfully or not) our wealth (happiness). This can't be done when the fractional banking system of fiat money can pull out the carpet from under our feet.

The visual of the foreclosures ... the visual of the numbers via the pictures ... tells the story of what happens when that carpet us pulled out from under our feet.

Or did i get this wrong?

Robert ~
.

 

[georgephillip]

The confusion that is coming to the world's on a global level will most probably produce considerable fury 'at the street level' ... which can only lead to conflict that can all too easily escalate to god knows what levels.
...

IRF, I keep trying to read your posts, but I must confess I have no idea what you're going on about. Either i'm dim, or your posting style is very oblique. Either way, I'm wondering, are you trying to make some point that I'm just not getting?

I think my intention was to be oblique with the purpose of allowing others to make their observations as to what might proceed at the street level and thus become the unwitting foil triggering the "FEMA Camp Protocols" so touted by those so disposed to take notice of that problem, which may or may not be in the offing.

My apologies for not being with the program here enough.

Robert ~

IRF, if dblack is admitting to being a little confused about your points, imagine my quandary.

Generally USMB regulars leave little to the imagination as far as their ideological bent is concerned. You're a breath of fresh air is some ways and an enigma (at least) in others.

I'm not conversant with DoD and DHS officials; however, I'm expecting street level cops and National Guard troops to respond to the sort of mass unrest we're currently seeing in the Muslim world and Greece in the manner in which most "conservatives" are programmed.

That is, they will base their moral calculus on obedience to legitimate authority and empathy be damned.

It is hard for me to wrap my mind around the possibility that tens of thousands of Americans may someday find themselves confined to Camp FEMAs; however, I was not ready for 911 or the fall of Lehman Brothers, either.

Imagining the star-spangled "authoritarian saviors" that street level fury would vomit up (Chris Hedges term) in a time of national food riots, for example, makes me very pessimistic for what's left of this Republic.

Another fine mess....?

 

[dblack]

The visual of the foreclosures ... the visual of the numbers via the pictures ... tells the story of what happens when that carpet us pulled out from under our feet.

But, those pictures are from China, right? I'm still not making the connection.

 

[westwall]

"There is a slavery that no legislation can abolish, -- the slavery of caste. G. W. Cable."

Your wealth provides you with opportunities I don't have.

Based on what you've written, you've earned it honorably, which is no small accomplishment, imo, since the economic system you've worked in is designed to reward greed and avarice first.

I hope you've taken steps to ensure what you've earned against the ravages of inflation, one way our economic elites could choose to "reduce " the national debt without adversely affecting non-dollar denominated wealth.

Inflation is tricky to control, and if it gets "free", it is capable of turning every $10 bill in the country into a $5...or worse.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) - The ARTFL Project

You're correct. When I was born there were many doors closed to me. many of those doors I could never hope to open, but there were many that I did open. I was able to carve a very comfortable life for myself and my family because of that.

You did not. You in fact closed doors that were open to you. You made the choice to not learn a skill. You made the choice to not obtain an education. In other words you made yourself the slave you are.

As far as the rest I am well prepared for any eventuality. Once again showing the difference between the citizen and the slave. You fear your own shadow, I don't. You fear for everything. I have prepared my family for any eventuality. When disaster comes we will be able to help our neighbors and if the caca really hits the rotary oscillator we are prepped for that too.

Once again, who's the slave? The person who is self sufficient or the person who is dependent on the "man" for his bread?

This system is the best on the planet for allowing the small fry to make good. If you have a modicum of brains and a willingness to work you can do almost anything. It is virtually impossible to do what I did in Europe. It is impossible in Africa or Asia to do it without having to murder people.

You jump to conclusions as adroitly as you jump through "the man's" hoops.

What doors have I closed?
How do you know I "made the choice to not learn a skill?"
Because I haven't earned enough money to watch The French Open in person?

In fact I've devoted a significant amount of my time to acquiring an education.
From the 70s when I finished 2 years at a Community College before transferring (briefly) to Cal Berkeley.

I took dozens of screenwriting classes through UCLA Extension in the 90s and have just finished my financial aid paperwork for returning to college full time this fall.

You repeatedly make the classical slave mistake of conflating any learning that doesn't translate into material reward with not learning. Which probably explains your arrogance when commenting on economic systems you know nothing about.

If "(t)his system is the best on the planet for allowing the small fry to make good.." explain why Germany is growing much faster than the US with a lower unemployment rate. 'Think it might have anything to do with a real hourly wage increase of almost 30% since 1985?

How does that rate compare to wage-slave stagnation in the "Land of the Free?"

The doors you closed were those of opportunity. If you have a marketable skill you can obtain equitable employment. If you don't you can't. You closed the doors of education. Were you better educated you could get gainful employment based on your level of educational accomplishment.

What did you do for 45 years?

 

[westwall]

IRF, I keep trying to read your posts, but I must confess I have no idea what you're going on about. Either i'm dim, or your posting style is very oblique. Either way, I'm wondering, are you trying to make some point that I'm just not getting?

I think my intention was to be oblique with the purpose of allowing others to make their observations as to what might proceed at the street level and thus become the unwitting foil triggering the "FEMA Camp Protocols" so touted by those so disposed to take notice of that problem, which may or may not be in the offing.

My apologies for not being with the program here enough.

Robert ~

IRF, if dblack is admitting to being a little confused about your points, imagine my quandary.

Generally USMB regulars leave little to the imagination as far as their ideological bent is concerned. You're a breath of fresh air is some ways and an enigma (at least) in others.

I'm not conversant with DoD and DHS officials; however, I'm expecting street level cops and National Guard troops to respond to the sort of mass unrest we're currently seeing in the Muslim world and Greece in the manner in which most "conservatives" are programmed.

That is, they will base their moral calculus on obedience to legitimate authority and empathy be damned.

It is hard for me to wrap my mind around the possibility that tens of thousands of Americans may someday find themselves confined to Camp FEMAs; however, I was not ready for 911 or the fall of Lehman Brothers, either.

Imagining the star-spangled "authoritarian saviors" that street level fury would vomit up (Chris Hedges term) in a time of national food riots, for example, makes me very pessimistic for what's left of this Republic.

Another fine mess....?

Look at what happened in LA during the Rodney King riots. a few innocents were killed but a whole lot of gangbangers died. When the world goes to hell, those with guns and the knowledge of how to use them clean house and quickly. There is a very thin veneer of civilization, when the good guys percieve that society is no longer capable they will take the law into their hands and mete out swift, sure justice. Then they fade away.

Any gang banger who wishes for rioting had better think twice. The same goes for any governmental body that decides to trample on the Constitution. The people will only allow it to proceed so far. Then Katy bar the door.

 

[georgephillip]

What if that governmental body is the Pentagon?

Specifically, the USAF?

 

[daveman]

What if that governmental body is the Pentagon?

Specifically, the USAF?

Now you get to describe where and how the Air Force violated the Constitution.

Degree of difficulty: You have to use real facts, not the usual drug-addled hippie horseshit you usually use.

 

[georgephillip]

What if that governmental body is the Pentagon?

Specifically, the USAF?

Now you get to describe where and how the Air Force violated the Constitution.

Degree of difficulty: You have to use real facts, not the usual drug-addled hippie horseshit you usually use.

There have been reports of incidents at the Air Force Academy which have allegedly violated First Amendment guarantees of religious freedom; however, I was referring to westwall's #494 post where he mentioned the fate that was in store "for any governmental body that decides to trample on the Constitution."

My reference was to possible future incidents of mass demonstrations occurring in this country that might require imposition of martial law.

 

[daveman]

What if that governmental body is the Pentagon?

Specifically, the USAF?

Now you get to describe where and how the Air Force violated the Constitution.

Degree of difficulty: You have to use real facts, not the usual drug-addled hippie horseshit you usually use.

There have been reports of incidents at the Air Force Academy which have allegedly violated First Amendment guarantees of religious freedom; however, I was referring to westwall's #494 post where he mentioned the fate that was in store "for any governmental body that decides to trample on the Constitution."

My reference was to possible future incidents of mass demonstrations occurring in this country that might require imposition of martial law.

Then...you got nothin'. Gasp.

 

[westwall]

What if that governmental body is the Pentagon?

Specifically, the USAF?

Pilots are notoriously independent thinkers. Were they ordered to drop bombs on American civilians i gurantee you there would be many pilots that dropped on those issuing the orders.

 

[georgephillip]

Onward Christian Pilots

Are you including the premillenial, dispensational, reconstructionist, dominionist, evangeliecal, fundamentalist Christian pilot in your statement?

Mikey Weinstein has some doubts:

'Michael 'Mikey' Weinstein represents an extended family of graduates from the U.S. Air Force Academy. As his biography proudly notes: 'Mikey comes from a family that has dedicated itself to the service of the United States.

"One indication of the family’s commitment is its multi-generational association with the nation’s military academies, in particular, the United States Air Force Academy. His father graduated from the United States Naval Academy. Mikey is a graduate of the Air Force Academy, as are his brother-in-law, eldest son and daughter-in-law. His youngest son is currently a cadet at the Air Force Academy."

Weinstein believes that radical Christians began recruiting actively in the US armed forces at the time we switched from conscription to an "all volunteer" military.

"BuzzFlash: Clearly, this could not happen without approval from the hierarchy in the Pentagon.

Michael L. Weinstein: Actually, it’s happening top-down, I think. And it’s been going on for quite awhile. We think it started in 1972 when the draft ended.

The theory for having a draft was that we were pulling from what we now call blue and red states, conscripting people into the military.

"Of course, a lot of them were pissed off coming in, and when you’re pissed off, even a spoonful of sugar doesn’t make the Jesus go down.

"But since we ended the draft, going to the full volunteer force in 1972, now we’re pulling mostly from what we call red states, where there’s a lot of this blending of a virulent form of dominionist Christianity –- essentially predatory Christianity -– with patriotism.

"Then, in 1994, with the Gingrich revolution taking over, two years into the Clinton presidency, the politics of polarization really reared its ugly head.

"Either you’re with us or you don’t really deserve to be an American."

Please don't allow my source, "BuzzFlash", to influence your assessment of this issue.

Weinstein is all over cyberspace with his campaign for separation of church and military.

Mikey Weinstein Tackles the Evangelical Coup in America's Military | BuzzFlash.org