Catholic Bishops Oppose Compromise on Birth-Control

[Luissa]

Well since they said they were very pleased and Obama used one of their pens I am going with them approving it. And why would I put two quotes together when two different groups spoke them?
I am also guessing the spoon fed comment has to do with the fact you can't admit you quoted the wrong group. We will let it pass this time.

"The Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities (AJCU)
acknowledges and appreciates the compromise that President Obama has
made to accommodate religious institutions in regard to the birth
control mandate under the Affordable Care Act. We commend the Obama
Administration for its willingness to work with us on moving toward a
solution, and we look forward to working out the details of these new
regulations with the White House. [Association of Jesuit Colleges and
Universities, 2/10/12] "

The did not say they approve of the compromise. They 'acknowledge and appreciate' it.

Basic comprehension.

Basic comprehension would have helped you realize he said Catholic Health Association, not The group you quoted.
This is the statement the CHA released
"The Catholic Health Association is very pleased with the White House announcement that a resolution has been reached that protects the religious liberty and conscience rights of Catholic institutions. The framework developed has responded to the issues we identified that needed to be fixed.
We are pleased and grateful that the religious liberty and conscience protection needs of so many ministries that serve our country were appreciated enough that an early resolution of this issue was accomplished. The unity of Catholic organizations in addressing this concern was a sign of its importance.
This difference has at times been uncomfortable but it has helped our country sort through an issue that has been important throughout the history of our great democracy.
The Catholic Health Association remains committed to working with the Administration and others to fully implement the Affordable Care Act to extend comprehensive and quality health care to many who suffer today from the lack of it."

Independent Logic put both quotes together. So, yea, I could have looked more closely... or you could have just read the fucking thread instead of expecting people to spoon feed you.

I still don't see anything in that quote that says they 'accept' the compromise.

To be absolutely brutal about it, though, Catholics will listen to what their Bishops, particular Cardinal Delegate Dolan, says. They are the voice of the Church, he is the voice of the Church in America.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Plenty of Women are Right to Life Luisa.

This is not about abortion!!!!!!!!

 

[Inthemiddle]

Republicans are so insane that they oppose birth control

See, this is part of the problem. It's not Republicans who are opposed to birth control. What we're dealing with is radical wing nuts who have deranged attitudes toward sexuality. They think that sex is an inherent evil and something that should be avoided at all costs, save the times when it's a necessary evil for the promulgation of the species. So they decry birth control medication, and then decry abortion, and all welfare programs for people whose jobs don't pay a living wage on which they can support their multitude of children. All because they can't get it through their head that sex is a part of human nature and a part of life. There are plenty of Republicans who have no issue with birth control. I don't know, maybe they're jealous. Maybe they were stupid enough to actually believe the stories about their palms getting hairy, and are now bitter that they were leaving themselves sexually frustrated while all the other kids in middle school were having fun. Maybe they couldn't get laid in high school, so they learned to play the, "Fine, I don't want to be in your stupid club anyway" card. Maybe they're gay and too afraid to come out of the closet, so they've less an orgasmless life so far. It's hard to be sure. But whatever the reason, they claim to be "pro-life" but in fact are anti-life. They deny their lives now, their nature. They insist on trying to suppress it, they curse and condemn it. They try to pass laws to annihilate it. They reject the Diyonisian believing they are following the crucified. But they will never understand the the only true Christian died on the cross.

 

[Inthemiddle]

If that was true

It is true. You need to read some case law. It's been well explained over the course of more than a century.

the government would simply prohibit religions from running hospitals and schools.

Where do you get that from? I never said that the first amendment prohibits churches from engaging in non-religious activity. I merely said that if they do engage in such non-religious activity, they venture into a realm where freedom of religion no longer applies to exempt them from general laws that apply to everyone else engaged in that activity.

As a matter of fact, if that were true there would be no ministerial exception to any law that covers hospitals and schools.

????

Funny thing, the Supreme Court just rules otherwise, and slapped the government down unanimously for trying to argue that schools are not churches.

How about you present a specific point that you're trying to make, and cite the specific issues in case law, instead of making vague and nonsensical claims predicated on unidentified court decisions?

 

[Inthemiddle]

It is a 1st Amendment issue because it goes beyond the 1st Amendment?

That's not what I said. Don't be a jackass by deliberately misrepresenting my statements. I said that it's ONLY a first amendment issue, INASMUCH as it goes beyond the LIMITS of the first amendment. The only thing a case like this can do in regards to first amendment jurisprudence is to serve as an example of those situations where the first amendment does not apply.

The limits of the 1st Amendment are that the laws have to apply equally to everyone. This mandate does not apply equally to everyone because Amish can run a business that does not meet the three qualifications of this mandate and still not have to supply coverage to their employees because they have a blanket exemption to all requirements of Obamacare.

So now you're moving the goal post to the Amish? Okay, so let's get this straight.....do you now abandon the notion that the Catholic Church has a first amendment right to refuse to abide by a law that would require them to allow birth control as part of their employee health insurance packages? Because that's a horse of an entirely different color than the Amish stuff.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Wow, did you misread Reynolds.

No, I didn't. I'm very familiar with the Reynolds decision.

There is not a single mention of charities in Reynolds v United States. it was exclusively about the religious duty of Mormons to have more than one wife and federal bigamy laws.

I never said Reynolds mentioned charities. I said that Reynolds explained that religious duty does not create an automatic exemption to laws under the first amendment. That fact remains applicable whether we are talking about Mormons having a religious duty to take multiple wives, or Catholics having a religious duty to operate a hospital.

The Supreme Court essentially made up the doctrine that, if a criminal law applies equally to everyone, it does not violate the 1st Amendment.

No, they didn't make it up. They applied the principles of the constitution and the intentions of the founders. Do you really believe that the Founding Fathers intended the first amendment to grant so absolute a grant of religious freedom, that every single person could become a law unto him/her self, and the rule of law in doing so? The Waite court did not make up the doctrine of the rule of law. That doctrine existed well before the Reynolds case. The court merely applied that doctrine. There was no way to preserve the doctrine of the rule of law, except to issue the decision that the was given in the Reynolds case.

It is interesting that the Waite Court, which produced this gem of jurisprudence, is the same court that said the federal government could not enforce the Civil Rights Act of 1875, set three white men who killed 105 blacks free because the indictment did not specify the victims were black, and said that states could deny women the right to vote.

The Reynolds decision has been maintained and embraced throughout the court's history. Even Scalia cited it in Smith. You have a problem with Scalia? Is he too liberal for you, or something?

Please, keep citing Reynolds as support of your bigotry.

You call it bigotry for me to say that religious groups are not exempt from laws just by invoking the name of God?

 

[saveliberty]

Obama fighting for women's health care.

Opposed by two of the great evils in the world, the Catholic Church and the Republican Party.

I like it.

I look forward to his commentary from home in Chicago next year.

 

[saveliberty]

I'd like to see Obama's reaction to a week long closing of all Catholic hospitals and revoking all health insurance coverages.

 

[Intense]

Plenty of Women are Right to Life Luisa.

]This is not about abortion!!!!!!!!

You mean you don't want it to be about abortion.

The bishops also said that they were unlikely to be satisfied by changes that affected only religious employers, since they still had "grave" objections to the overall mandate, which includes the morning-after pill and sterilization.

Catholic Bishops Oppose Obama Compromise on Birth-Control Insurance - WSJ.com

 

[ABikerSailor]

where i come from women wait untill there wedding night then pretend to enjoy sex.

they don't go around waiting for the socialist government to buy their pills so thay can frolic around like bunnyrabbits without the express purpose of making a baby.

if people could keep their primal urges in check a little better we would have all of these problems.

I'd be willing to bet that finding an 18 year old virgin (legal age for marriage in most states) within 100 miles of your house would be like going looking for Bigfoot.

In other words.......they don't exist.

But......what else should we expect out of you other than blatant lies to try to shore up your position?

Just because you couldn't keep it in your pants doesn't mean there aren't millions of responsible teenagers in this country that do. you're just a sick pervert with a twisted view of the world, you should check yourself in somewhere and hope they have locks on the doors.

Really Gay Pinhead? If that's true, then wanna explain why the teen pregnancy rate is so high?

And.........to tell the truth........out of 47 years of living, I've only met 2 virgins over the age of 18.

 

[Intense]

2-10-12

The U.S. bishops said that these changes need "careful moral analysis" and "moreover, appear subject to some measure of change."

"But," they stated, "we note at the outset that the lack of clear protection for key stakeholders -- for self-insured religious employers; for religious and secular for-profit employers; for secular non-profit employers; for religious insurers; and for individuals -- is unacceptable and must be corrected. And in the case where the employee and insurer agree to add the objectionable coverage, that coverage is still provided as a part of the objecting employer's plan, financed in the same way as the rest of the coverage offered by the objecting employer. This, too, raises serious moral concerns."

The bishops said that parts of the information on Obama's proposal are in writing and other elements have only been explained orally.

"We will, of course, continue to press for the greatest conscience protection we can secure from the Executive Branch. But stepping away from the particulars, we note that today's proposal continues to involve needless government intrusion in the internal governance of religious institutions, and to threaten government coercion of religious people and groups to violate their most deeply held convictions. In a nation dedicated to religious liberty as its first and founding principle, we should not be limited to negotiating within these parameters. The only complete solution to this religious liberty problem is for HHS to rescind the mandate of these objectionable services."

ZENIT - US Bishops: Obama's 'Compromise' Has No Clear Protection for Key Stakeholders

 

[SFC Ollie]

I'd be willing to bet that finding an 18 year old virgin (legal age for marriage in most states) within 100 miles of your house would be like going looking for Bigfoot.

In other words.......they don't exist.

But......what else should we expect out of you other than blatant lies to try to shore up your position?

Just because you couldn't keep it in your pants doesn't mean there aren't millions of responsible teenagers in this country that do. you're just a sick pervert with a twisted view of the world, you should check yourself in somewhere and hope they have locks on the doors.

Really Gay Pinhead? If that's true, then wanna explain why the teen pregnancy rate is so high?

And.........to tell the truth........out of 47 years of living, I've only met 2 virgins over the age of 18.

Is that really something to brag about?

 

[Intense]

Why we’re suing over the HHS birth control mandate

The Obama administration’s mandate for employers to pay for coverage of potentially abortion-inducing drugs, contraceptives and sterilization, does not just affect churches, religious groups, and health care institutions; it affects virtually all health care plans and all employers, across the board and across the country.

We at Priests for Life are opposing this mandate as employers, not as a religious group. Religious freedom is not a right just of religious groups; it’s a right of every American. Moreover, religious freedom is often reduced simply to freedom of worship, and this seems to be a mistake of the Obama administration. Freedom of worship means you can go to whatever church you want on Sunday. But religious freedom is not just freedom of worship; it is also freedom of conscience, which means that every day of the week, you should be able to do everything you do in a way that is consistent with your religious and moral convictions.

Moreover, the “religious exemption” for this mandate is so narrow that we have been informed by legal counsel that we do not even qualify for it. Not every organization run by a priest is the kind of “church-affiliated” organization envisioned by this exemption. Moreover, the exemption says that you have to primarily employ and serve people of your own faith. But the church’s mission -- and ours as well -- is by definition directed to the whole world.

Why we’re suing over the HHS birth control mandate - - The Washington Post

 

[ABikerSailor]

Just because you couldn't keep it in your pants doesn't mean there aren't millions of responsible teenagers in this country that do. you're just a sick pervert with a twisted view of the world, you should check yourself in somewhere and hope they have locks on the doors.

Really Gay Pinhead? If that's true, then wanna explain why the teen pregnancy rate is so high?

And.........to tell the truth........out of 47 years of living, I've only met 2 virgins over the age of 18.

Is that really something to brag about?

Not bragging Ollie, just stating a simple fact. After the sexual revolution of the 60's, as well as what happened in the 70's and 80's with disco and partying, the old fashioned view of remaining celibate until marriage kinda got thrown out.

And.........I graduated in 1982, well after the sexual revolution.

 

[saveliberty]

I veiw Obama as the biggest terrorist threat to America. His attacks on the American way of life is constant and more long term damaging than blowing up buildings.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I'd be willing to bet that finding an 18 year old virgin (legal age for marriage in most states) within 100 miles of your house would be like going looking for Bigfoot.

In other words.......they don't exist.

But......what else should we expect out of you other than blatant lies to try to shore up your position?

Just because you couldn't keep it in your pants doesn't mean there aren't millions of responsible teenagers in this country that do. you're just a sick pervert with a twisted view of the world, you should check yourself in somewhere and hope they have locks on the doors.

Really Gay Pinhead? If that's true, then wanna explain why the teen pregnancy rate is so high?

And.........to tell the truth........out of 47 years of living, I've only met 2 virgins over the age of 18.

The teen pregnancy rate is so high because there are useless excuses like you for parents, dipshit.

And if you've only met 2 18 year old virgins in 47 years I can say with certainty that you don't spend ANY time in church, and you hang out with the wrong kind of people.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Just because you couldn't keep it in your pants doesn't mean there aren't millions of responsible teenagers in this country that do. you're just a sick pervert with a twisted view of the world, you should check yourself in somewhere and hope they have locks on the doors.

Really Gay Pinhead? If that's true, then wanna explain why the teen pregnancy rate is so high?

And.........to tell the truth........out of 47 years of living, I've only met 2 virgins over the age of 18.

The teen pregnancy rate is so high because there are useless excuses like you for parents, dipshit.

And if you've only met 2 18 year old virgins in 47 years I can say with certainty that you don't spend ANY time in church, and you hang out with the wrong kind of people.

Actually, didn't have time, was too busy deploying to foreign lands defending this country.

Besides........I'm a Taoist.

 

[Luissa]

I veiw Obama as the biggest terrorist threat to America. His attacks on the American way of life is constant and more long term damaging than blowing up buildings.

If attacking people who openly discriminate against women is attacking the American way of life, then good for him.

Notice other than California Girl, it is all men in here defending these Bishops?

 

[Luissa]

Plenty of Women are Right to Life Luisa.

]This is not about abortion!!!!!!!!

You mean you don't want it to be about abortion.

The bishops also said that they were unlikely to be satisfied by changes that affected only religious employers, since they still had "grave" objections to the overall mandate, which includes the morning-after pill and sterilization.

Catholic Bishops Oppose Obama Compromise on Birth-Control Insurance - WSJ.com

This thread is about birth control. Why do you keep trying to make it about abortion?
And no one is talking about forcing them to fund abortion.

 

[saveliberty]

I veiw Obama as the biggest terrorist threat to America. His attacks on the American way of life is constant and more long term damaging than blowing up buildings.

If attacking people who openly discriminate against women is attacking the American way of life, then good for him.

Notice other than California Girl, it is all men in here defending these Bishops?

Well, with your powers of observation, you should also note not a single man suggested birth control be withhheld from women. We just think that a church organization should have the right to make you pay for your play.

WARNING!: Birth control devices will not protect you from STDs.