CBS Breaking News: Trump Leads Clinton By 5+ Points In Key Battleground State Of Pennsylvania

[westwall]

Polling Data
Poll Date Sample MoE Clinton (D) Trump (R) Spread
RCP Average 7/25 - 8/7 -- -- 49.2 40.0 Clinton +9.2
NBC/WSJ/Marist 8/3 - 8/7 834 RV 3.4 48 37 Clinton +11
Quinnipiac 7/30 - 8/7 815 LV 3.4 52 42 Clinton +10
Susquehanna 7/31 - 8/4 772 LV 3.5 47 37 Clinton +10
Franklin & Marshall 7/29 - 8/2 389 LV 6.3 49 38 Clinton +11
PPP (D) 7/29 - 7/31 1505 LV 2.5 49 45 Clinton +4
Suffolk University 7/25 - 7/27 500 LV 4.4 50 41 Clinton +9

Polling Data
NBC/WSJ/Marist 8/3 - 8/7 834 RV 3.4 48 37 Clinton +11
Quinnipiac 7/30 - 8/7 815 LV 3.4 52 42 Clinton +10
Susquehanna 7/31 - 8/4 772 LV 3.5 47 37 Clinton +10
Franklin & Marshall 7/29 - 8/2 389 LV 6.3 49 38 Clinton +11
PPP (D) 7/29 - 7/31 1505 LV 2.5 49 45 Clinton +4
Suffolk University 7/25 - 7/27 500 LV 4.4 50 41 Clinton +9
Quinnipiac 6/30 - 7/11 982 RV 3.1 41 43 Trump +2
NBC/WSJ/Marist 7/5 - 7/10 829 RV 3.4 45 36 Clinton +9
Gravis* 6/27 - 6/28 1958 RV 2.2 50 48 Clinton +2
PPP (D)* 6/22 - 6/23 980 RV 3.1 46 42 Clinton +4
Quinnipiac 6/8 - 6/19 950 RV 3.2 42 41 Clinton +1
PPP (D) 6/3 - 6/5 1106 RV 3.0 44 44 Tie

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Clinton

Like Mr. Westwall said, anyone can plainly see the overwhelming lead that Trump has over Clinton in Pennsylvania.

Never said that, but thanks for proving my point yet again...

 

[bodecea]

When they favor your candidate you're all "rah rah sis boom bah", but when they are against your candidate you're all "oh god, not another one". Why is that? Your propaganda not working?

We need an Ironic smiley.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Depends on your perspective. From the perspective of proressives, conservatives and the GOP 'take it to a new level.'

That's true. But progressives are KNOWN to be hyperbolic in nature. Just sayin...

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Oh look, here comes another one now, engaging in what he laments.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Polling Data
Poll Date Sample MoE Clinton (D) Trump (R) Spread
RCP Average 7/25 - 8/7 -- -- 49.2 40.0 Clinton +9.2
NBC/WSJ/Marist 8/3 - 8/7 834 RV 3.4 48 37 Clinton +11
Quinnipiac 7/30 - 8/7 815 LV 3.4 52 42 Clinton +10
Susquehanna 7/31 - 8/4 772 LV 3.5 47 37 Clinton +10
Franklin & Marshall 7/29 - 8/2 389 LV 6.3 49 38 Clinton +11
PPP (D) 7/29 - 7/31 1505 LV 2.5 49 45 Clinton +4
Suffolk University 7/25 - 7/27 500 LV 4.4 50 41 Clinton +9

Polling Data
NBC/WSJ/Marist 8/3 - 8/7 834 RV 3.4 48 37 Clinton +11
Quinnipiac 7/30 - 8/7 815 LV 3.4 52 42 Clinton +10
Susquehanna 7/31 - 8/4 772 LV 3.5 47 37 Clinton +10
Franklin & Marshall 7/29 - 8/2 389 LV 6.3 49 38 Clinton +11
PPP (D) 7/29 - 7/31 1505 LV 2.5 49 45 Clinton +4
Suffolk University 7/25 - 7/27 500 LV 4.4 50 41 Clinton +9
Quinnipiac 6/30 - 7/11 982 RV 3.1 41 43 Trump +2
NBC/WSJ/Marist 7/5 - 7/10 829 RV 3.4 45 36 Clinton +9
Gravis* 6/27 - 6/28 1958 RV 2.2 50 48 Clinton +2
PPP (D)* 6/22 - 6/23 980 RV 3.1 46 42 Clinton +4
Quinnipiac 6/8 - 6/19 950 RV 3.2 42 41 Clinton +1
PPP (D) 6/3 - 6/5 1106 RV 3.0 44 44 Tie

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Clinton

Like Mr. Westwall said, anyone can plainly see the overwhelming lead that Trump has over Clinton in Pennsylvania.

Never said that, but thanks for proving my point yet again...

We're all hoping you locate a point hon.

 

[westwall]

That's true. But progressives are KNOWN to be hyperbolic in nature. Just sayin...

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Oh look, here comes another one now, engaging in what he laments.

Oh? Please show the class where I said what olfraud claims I said? Progressives lie all of the time. And this proves it. So does your jumping on the bandwagon. Just sayin...

 

[Fenton Lum]

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Oh look, here comes another one now, engaging in what he laments.

Oh? Please show the class where I said what olfraud claims I said? Progressives lie all of the time. And this proves it. So does your jumping on the bandwagon. Just sayin...

All it means when you sneer "Progressives" is that someone didn't sing backup for you. You're very tired and boring. Like the site you "mod".

 

[Czernobog]

Depends on your perspective. From the perspective of proressives, conservatives and the GOP 'take it to a new level.'

That's true. But progressives are KNOWN to be hyperbolic in nature. Just sayin...

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[westwall]

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Oh look, here comes another one now, engaging in what he laments.

Oh? Please show the class where I said what olfraud claims I said? Progressives lie all of the time. And this proves it. So does your jumping on the bandwagon. Just sayin...

All it means when you sneer "Progressives" is that someone didn't sing backup for you. You're very tired and boring. Like the site you "mod".

If this site is so bad I suggest you go elsewhere. There are many members who provide cogent, intellectual discussion who even when they are opposite of myself politically I learn a great deal from. You're not one of those people.

 

[westwall]

That's true. But progressives are KNOWN to be hyperbolic in nature. Just sayin...

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

Only partisanshithead rubes attempt to lay off a 5-6 decade long intentional political project at the feet of one party or elected official. The entire system did this thing you want "one" side to own.

But it just ain't reality.

 

[Czernobog]

Again, it is a matter of perspective. Progressives would say, and believe, the same of conservatives.

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[westwall]

No. Both sides don't do it equally. That's a mainstream media cop out. One side does it more. They just do.

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

 

[Fenton Lum]

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

The reality does not support your propaganda son, the raping and redistribution goes back across the last 5-6 decades and spans "both" parties.

 

[westwall]

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

The reality does not support your propaganda son, the raping and redistribution goes back across the last 5-6 decades and spans "both" parties.

I agree with the both parties aspect. That is absolutely true. However, under so called progressive admins, the wealthiest one percent consistently do better than they do under repub admins. That is a fact.

 

[LoneLaugher]

No one in american society is willing to own up to anything, that's how we got here, it is always someone else's fault. So the best you will ever hear is that "sure we're shitty, but the other guys are shittier". Hell of a system for such an "exceptional" bunch of hominids bombing others for resources and profit.

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

Wow!!

You really do pretend that the GOP is preferred for the middle class.

What policy of the current administration has RAPED the middle class?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

The reality does not support your propaganda son, the raping and redistribution goes back across the last 5-6 decades and spans "both" parties.

I agree with the both parties aspect. That is absolutely true. However, under so called progressive admins, the wealthiest one percent consistently do better than they do under repub admins. That is a fact.

a) not just because you say so, source it.
b) who cares how well the 1% do?

That's not the/a problem, unless they're doing it at the expense of an economically healthy society over all.

Your partisanshit is a problem when it comes to clarity, mod.

 

[westwall]

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

Wow!!

You really do pretend that the GOP is preferred for the middle class.

What policy of the current administration has RAPED the middle class?

No, I don't. But facts are facts. Under obama the one percenters have done better than they did under bush or reagan. And by a country mile. Parse words all you want, and attack the messenger all you wish but those are the facts.

 

[westwall]

We were? The wealthiest one percent have seen their net worth skyrocket while the middle class has seen their net worth drop for the first time in 40 years. You call that success?

No. I call that Repuglicon "trickle down" economics doing exactly what it was designed to do - make the rich richer. I call that a decade of Repuglicons opposing attempts to create a living wage to strengthen the working class, and suddenly discovering, during this election cycle, that that very same working class makes up a significant demographic of the voting public, so, now they are giving lip service to the people they left out in the cold, hoping they forget that it was Repuglicon policies that created this income inequality in the first place.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet the facts show that the one percenters do far better under Democrat admins than they ever do under repub ones. Why is that? This current administration has raped the middle class and given all of that wealth to the one percenters. Reality doesn't support your propaganda. Just sayin...

The reality does not support your propaganda son, the raping and redistribution goes back across the last 5-6 decades and spans "both" parties.

I agree with the both parties aspect. That is absolutely true. However, under so called progressive admins, the wealthiest one percent consistently do better than they do under repub admins. That is a fact.

a) not just because you say so, source it.
b) who cares how well the 1% do?

That's not the/a problem, unless they're doing it at the expense of an economically healthy society over all.

Your partisanshit is a problem when it comes to clarity, mod.

I care because the only way for them to have done this well was for the middle class to suffer. They have, and look at you supporting the wealth gap. I thought you were supposed to be for the "little guy", looks like that isn't true.

 

[edthecynic]

I agree. Just look at your hero obummer. NOTHING was his fault. Even five years into his reign it was still bushies fault.

Actually, "five years" into his "reign" we were praising Obama for turning around the economic clusterfuck that your Repuglicon clown of a President had left him with. Repuglicons, on the other hand, were bitching, as they are now, that the recovery wasn't "fast enough, or big enough", while pretending they hadn't spent the last three years blocking every attempt to speed the recovery up, choosing instead to pass a repeal 52 times that they knew would never be signed into law.

 

[edthecynic]

No, I don't. But facts are facts. Under obama the one percenters have done better than they did under bush or reagan. And by a country mile. Parse words all you want, and attack the messenger all you wish but those are the facts.