Chavez Socialism Being Rejected in Venezuela

[Tehon]

The timing for it isn't right.
More human development needs to take place......for sure.
But ultimately I think Marx will be justified. We will pass into another phase of development eventually.
The capitalist system carries with it the seeds of its own destruction.

No, the timing isn't right, and never will be. Humans have always been selfish, and always will be. Kids are born selfish, it's a survival technique.

Capitalism might destroy itself, but will always regenerate itself, why? Because it offers the best option for humans.

We developed from systems of slave labor to a feudal system, to a capitalist system. I see no reason why we will not continue to progress. Nothing lasts forever.

But all the time we changed within what we are. The only times when something that we aren't happened, was when people forced it on others, and every time it collapsed.

But all the time we changed within what we are.

You say that we are selfish. That seems a rather shallow understanding of man and our relation to one another. Consider though that each time we changed we became less so. I don't share your limitations on what we are and how we relate to one another.

The only times when something that we aren't happened, was when people forced it on others, and every time it collapsed.

Marx said that the conditions for change are created by the system being overthrown. When the conditions are right it won't have to be forced. That doesn't preclude a struggle however. There will still be a relatively small minority that will have to be persuaded.

Do we become less selfish? Really? Look around you. People like Trump getting into the White House and using it to make themselves a fortune, people pumping International Capitalism as the system, then at the first sign it goes against them demanding protectionism and the like. Selfishness hasn't gone away, it's as strong as ever.

You don't share my limitations? No, clearly not, you think Communism will happen in the future. If you shared my views then you'd have to completely disregard Communism, as I have and as has most of the world.

Marx said a lot of things, that doesn't make him right.

Do we become less selfish? Really? Look around you. People like Trump getting into the White House and using it to make themselves a fortune, people pumping International Capitalism as the system, then at the first sign it goes against them demanding protectionism and the like. Selfishness hasn't gone away, it's as strong as ever.

Are you equating Trump's actions with those of slave owners? Seriously

Economic Manuscripts: Preface to A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy
"In the social production of their existence, men inevitably enter into definite relations, which are independent of their will, namely relations of production appropriate to a given stage in the development of their material forces of production. The totality of these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of society, the real foundation, on which arises a legal and political superstructure and to which correspond definite forms of social consciousness. The mode of production of material life conditions the general process of social, political and intellectual life. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness. At a certain stage of development, the material productive forces of society come into conflict with the existing relations of production or – this merely expresses the same thing in legal terms – with the property relations within the framework of which they have operated hitherto. From forms of development of the productive forces these relations turn into their fetters. Then begins an era of social revolution. The changes in the economic foundation lead sooner or later to the transformation of the whole immense superstructure."


We've been conditioned by the system to celebrate selfishness. Straight from Adam Smith.

People like Trump getting into the White House and using it to make themselves a fortune, people pumping International Capitalism as the system, then at the first sign it goes against them demanding protectionism and the like. S

Marx understood in his time that capitalism would destroy Nationalism. Dumb fuck conservatives, like we have seen in this thread, think Marx wanted to bring about one world government and destroy Nationalism. He didn't. He correctly pointed out that capitalism would bring it about and that when the capitalist system collapsed the new system would be global necessarily due to the conditions of the old system (capitalism).

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, the timing isn't right, and never will be. Humans have always been selfish, and always will be. Kids are born selfish, it's a survival technique.

Capitalism might destroy itself, but will always regenerate itself, why? Because it offers the best option for humans.

We developed from systems of slave labor to a feudal system, to a capitalist system. I see no reason why we will not continue to progress. Nothing lasts forever.

But all the time we changed within what we are. The only times when something that we aren't happened, was when people forced it on others, and every time it collapsed.

But all the time we changed within what we are.

You say that we are selfish. That seems a rather shallow understanding of man and our relation to one another. Consider though that each time we changed we became less so. I don't share your limitations on what we are and how we relate to one another.

The only times when something that we aren't happened, was when people forced it on others, and every time it collapsed.

Marx said that the conditions for change are created by the system being overthrown. When the conditions are right it won't have to be forced. That doesn't preclude a struggle however. There will still be a relatively small minority that will have to be persuaded.

Do we become less selfish? Really? Look around you. People like Trump getting into the White House and using it to make themselves a fortune, people pumping International Capitalism as the system, then at the first sign it goes against them demanding protectionism and the like. Selfishness hasn't gone away, it's as strong as ever.

You don't share my limitations? No, clearly not, you think Communism will happen in the future. If you shared my views then you'd have to completely disregard Communism, as I have and as has most of the world.

Marx said a lot of things, that doesn't make him right.

Do we become less selfish? Really? Look around you. People like Trump getting into the White House and using it to make themselves a fortune, people pumping International Capitalism as the system, then at the first sign it goes against them demanding protectionism and the like. Selfishness hasn't gone away, it's as strong as ever.

Are you equating Trump's actions with those of slave owners? Seriously

Economic Manuscripts: Preface to A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy
"In the social production of their existence, men inevitably enter into definite relations, which are independent of their will, namely relations of production appropriate to a given stage in the development of their material forces of production. The totality of these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of society, the real foundation, on which arises a legal and political superstructure and to which correspond definite forms of social consciousness. The mode of production of material life conditions the general process of social, political and intellectual life. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness. At a certain stage of development, the material productive forces of society come into conflict with the existing relations of production or – this merely expresses the same thing in legal terms – with the property relations within the framework of which they have operated hitherto. From forms of development of the productive forces these relations turn into their fetters. Then begins an era of social revolution. The changes in the economic foundation lead sooner or later to the transformation of the whole immense superstructure."


We've been conditioned by the system to celebrate selfishness. Straight from Adam Smith.

People like Trump getting into the White House and using it to make themselves a fortune, people pumping International Capitalism as the system, then at the first sign it goes against them demanding protectionism and the like. S

Marx understood in his time that capitalism would destroy Nationalism. Dumb fuck conservatives, like we have seen in this thread, think Marx wanted to bring about one world government and destroy Nationalism. He didn't. He correctly pointed out that capitalism would bring it about and that when the capitalist system collapsed the new system would be global necessarily due to the conditions of the old system (capitalism).

I don't think I even said anything about slave owners, so... wtf?

We haven't been conditioned to celebrate selfishness, we just are. Look at children. They're selfish. It's inherent. Get over it.

Marx "understood"? Look, I understand that space aliens like McDonalds, but, hey.

 

[grainbely]

The same type of socialism that the Democrats want for the United States...is being rejected in Venezuela. Tell Bernie, Nancy, and Sacajawea to pay attention.
Venezuelan Women March on Caracas Against 'Repression'

Do you think pure capitalism is the answer? If so, you're wrong and if not what do you cut it with?

 

[Bush92]

The same type of socialism that the Democrats want for the United States...is being rejected in Venezuela. Tell Bernie, Nancy, and Sacajawea to pay attention.
Venezuelan Women March on Caracas Against 'Repression'

Do you think pure capitalism is the answer? If so, you're wrong and if not what do you cut it with?

Mixed economy...but not socialism...like we have set up in United States...and certainly not a communist totalitarian state like the Democrats want. Urban rule and Washington Politburo to tell people living in small town America and the burbs how they are to act and think.

 

[grainbely]

The same type of socialism that the Democrats want for the United States...is being rejected in Venezuela. Tell Bernie, Nancy, and Sacajawea to pay attention.
Venezuelan Women March on Caracas Against 'Repression'

Do you think pure capitalism is the answer? If so, you're wrong and if not what do you cut it with?

Mixed economy...but not socialism...like we have set up in United States...and certainly not a communist totalitarian state like the Democrats want. Urban rule and Washington Politburo to tell people living in small town America and the burbs how they are to act and think.

Something like 60% of the population live in cities. While urban laws might not be suited for rural areas, there are concerns going the other way as well.

Off topic
How fair is it that a crowded urban neighborhood gets patrolled visually by police but something similar would be called an invasion of privacy in rural parts? I bet crime statistics and penalties are skewed because of this.

On topic
I'd like to know what would be mixed with capitalism. What problems of capitalism need to be solved and what's the best route to do that, without any socialism?