Chavez Socialism Being Rejected in Venezuela

[Tehon]

Marxism oppresses. In his Manifesto Marx said democracy cannot be allowed.

Link?

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy. When the going gets tough...peop,e reject Marxism.
Only in communist society, when the resistance of the capitalists have disappeared, when there are no classes (i.e., when there is no distinction between the members of society as regards their relation to the social means of production), only then "the state... ceases to exist", and "it becomes possible to speak of freedom". Only then will a truly complete democracy become possible and be realized, a democracy without any exceptions whatever. And only then will democracy begin to wither away, owing to the simple fact that, freed from capitalist slavery, from the untold horrors, savagery, absurdities, and infamies of capitalist exploitation, people will gradually become accustomed to observing the elementary rules of social intercourse that have been known for centuries and repeated for thousands of years in all copy-book maxims. They will become accustomed to observing them without force, without coercion, without subordination, without the special apparatus for coercion called the state.

That is very insightful and refutes your statement that capitalism is freedom.

I didn't see where he said anything about democracy not being allowed.

Can't read?

Lol, I can read fine. And my reading comprehension is pretty good as well.
Can you cite the source for this so we can see it in proper context;

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy.

 

[Bush92]

Marxism oppresses. In his Manifesto Marx said democracy cannot be allowed.

Link?

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy. When the going gets tough...peop,e reject Marxism.
Only in communist society, when the resistance of the capitalists have disappeared, when there are no classes (i.e., when there is no distinction between the members of society as regards their relation to the social means of production), only then "the state... ceases to exist", and "it becomes possible to speak of freedom". Only then will a truly complete democracy become possible and be realized, a democracy without any exceptions whatever. And only then will democracy begin to wither away, owing to the simple fact that, freed from capitalist slavery, from the untold horrors, savagery, absurdities, and infamies of capitalist exploitation, people will gradually become accustomed to observing the elementary rules of social intercourse that have been known for centuries and repeated for thousands of years in all copy-book maxims. They will become accustomed to observing them without force, without coercion, without subordination, without the special apparatus for coercion called the state.

That is very insightful and refutes your statement that capitalism is freedom.

I didn't see where he said anything about democracy not being allowed.

Can't read?

Lol, I can read fine. And my reading comprehension is pretty good as well.
Can you cite the source for this so we can see it in proper context;

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy.

The State and Revolution — Chapter 5

 

[Bush92]

Scholarly work from Oxford on why Marxism will always produce a totalitarian state.Marxist theory is flawed and will never produce a classless utopia.
Marxism and Democracy - Oxford Scholarship

 

[Tehon]

Link?

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy. When the going gets tough...peop,e reject Marxism.
Only in communist society, when the resistance of the capitalists have disappeared, when there are no classes (i.e., when there is no distinction between the members of society as regards their relation to the social means of production), only then "the state... ceases to exist", and "it becomes possible to speak of freedom". Only then will a truly complete democracy become possible and be realized, a democracy without any exceptions whatever. And only then will democracy begin to wither away, owing to the simple fact that, freed from capitalist slavery, from the untold horrors, savagery, absurdities, and infamies of capitalist exploitation, people will gradually become accustomed to observing the elementary rules of social intercourse that have been known for centuries and repeated for thousands of years in all copy-book maxims. They will become accustomed to observing them without force, without coercion, without subordination, without the special apparatus for coercion called the state.

That is very insightful and refutes your statement that capitalism is freedom.

I didn't see where he said anything about democracy not being allowed.

Can't read?

Lol, I can read fine. And my reading comprehension is pretty good as well.
Can you cite the source for this so we can see it in proper context;

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy.

The State and Revolution — Chapter 5

Lenin, lol.

Nevertheless, Marx spoke of freedom, he didn't say that democracy wasn't "allowed". He said, correctly, that it wasn't fully attainable.

 

[Bush92]

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy. When the going gets tough...peop,e reject Marxism.
Only in communist society, when the resistance of the capitalists have disappeared, when there are no classes (i.e., when there is no distinction between the members of society as regards their relation to the social means of production), only then "the state... ceases to exist", and "it becomes possible to speak of freedom". Only then will a truly complete democracy become possible and be realized, a democracy without any exceptions whatever. And only then will democracy begin to wither away, owing to the simple fact that, freed from capitalist slavery, from the untold horrors, savagery, absurdities, and infamies of capitalist exploitation, people will gradually become accustomed to observing the elementary rules of social intercourse that have been known for centuries and repeated for thousands of years in all copy-book maxims. They will become accustomed to observing them without force, without coercion, without subordination, without the special apparatus for coercion called the state.

That is very insightful and refutes your statement that capitalism is freedom.

I didn't see where he said anything about democracy not being allowed.

Can't read?

Lol, I can read fine. And my reading comprehension is pretty good as well.
Can you cite the source for this so we can see it in proper context;

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy.

The State and Revolution — Chapter 5

Lenin, lol.

Nevertheless, Marx spoke of freedom, he didn't say that democracy wasn't "allowed". He said, correctly, that it wasn't fully attainable.

Ohhhhh. In other words...democracy is useless. Republican form of government is useless. Why have it. The state will tell you what to think.

 

[MindWars]

Chavez statue ripped down.
Hugo Chávez statue toppled during Venezuela riots – video

Reminds me of what they did to Hussien. lol

 

[Bush92]

Chavez statue ripped down.
Hugo Chávez statue toppled during Venezuela riots – video

Reminds me of what they did to Hussien. lol

I agree.

 

[Tehon]

That is very insightful and refutes your statement that capitalism is freedom.

I didn't see where he said anything about democracy not being allowed.

Can't read?

Lol, I can read fine. And my reading comprehension is pretty good as well.
Can you cite the source for this so we can see it in proper context;

Marx said that until "the state" could create a "new communist man" then you could not have democracy.

The State and Revolution — Chapter 5

Lenin, lol.

Nevertheless, Marx spoke of freedom, he didn't say that democracy wasn't "allowed". He said, correctly, that it wasn't fully attainable.

Ohhhhh. In other words...democracy is useless. Republican form of government is useless. Why have it. The state will tell you what to think.

No.
Democracy can't be fully realized under a capitalist system. In order to fully realize it we must get beyond the capitalist system.

And so in capitalist society we have a democracy that is curtailed, wretched, false, a democracy only for the rich, for the minority. The dictatorship of the proletariat, the period of transition to communism, will for the first time create democracy for the people, for the majority, along with the necessary suppression of the exploiters, of the minority. Communism alone is capable of providing really complete democracy, and the more complete it is, the sooner it will become unnecessary and wither away of its own accord.

The State and Revolution — Chapter 5

So very true. You know it. You know there is a problem in our capitalist system. It's the reason you voted for Trump. You are hoping he is going to help solve the problems. The capitalists used their unequal access to government and colluded to destroy labor in America. And so you voted for Trump because he promised to restore American labor to its glory.

 

[Esmeralda]

Chavez statue ripped down.
Hugo Chávez statue toppled during Venezuela riots – video

They are not rejecting socialism, you idiot; they are rejecting dictatorship. Jeeze. What a moron.

 

[DarkFury]

Chavez statue ripped down.
Hugo Chávez statue toppled during Venezuela riots – video

They are not rejecting socialism, you idiot; they are rejecting dictatorship. Jeeze. What a moron.

Socialism is dictatorship you idiot! Anything that grants government total control over any public venue or freedom is!

 

[August West]

I`ve taken several trips to quasi-socialistic Costa Rica. It`s the only Central American country that people aren`t trying to escape from.

 

[DarkFury]

I`ve taken several trips to quasi-socialistic Costa Rica. It`s the only Central American country that people aren`t trying to escape from.

That country depends heavily on tourists. They are about two terrorist attacks away from financial devastation.

 

[Political Junky]

Chavez statue ripped down.
Hugo Chávez statue toppled during Venezuela riots – video

They are not rejecting socialism, you idiot; they are rejecting dictatorship. Jeeze. What a moron.

Yes, the OP is totally ignorant of world affairs. I'm sure he believes the US Democratic Party suppresses women.

 

[esthermoon]

The same type of socialism that the Democrats want for the United States...is being rejected in Venezuela. Tell Bernie, Nancy, and Sacajawea to pay attention.
Venezuelan Women March on Caracas Against 'Repression'

And then what's gonna happen?
Maybe Venezuelans could have a better life in the future without socialism, or maybe not...they should be very careful

 

[DarkFury]

The same type of socialism that the Democrats want for the United States...is being rejected in Venezuela. Tell Bernie, Nancy, and Sacajawea to pay attention.
Venezuelan Women March on Caracas Against 'Repression'

And then what's gonna happen?
Maybe Venezuelans could have a better life in the future without socialism, or maybe not...they should be very careful

Much like your country in the 80s people are starving in the street. No matter how it ends up the people will suffer.

 

[Decus]

Socialist policies are at the heart of Venezuela’s problems:

"Socialist supporters, also known as "Chavistas," embrace the ideas and programs of Hugo Chávez, the late former president who implemented a socialist program that nationalized various industries and expanded access to food, health care, housing and education to the country's poor."
...
""We are going through an undeniable economic crisis. We cannot deny it," says Jeffer Subaran, of the Alexis Vice colectivo in Caracas. "We see this (economic) crisis as a new opportunity to better develop and strengthen the socialist model that we are promoting.""

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2017-01-06/venezuelas-last-bastion-of-chavistas

The conflict is clear and began long before Venezuela's Supreme Court decision on March 29th 2017 to reduce the power of the National Assembly (despite the decision being reversed it only added to distrust in the Socialist government):

"Venezuela is split into Chavistas, the name given to the followers of the socialist policies of the late President Hugo Chavez, and those who cannot wait to see an end to the 18 years in power of his United Socialist Party (PSUV)."

Venezuela crisis: What is behind the turmoil? - BBC News

.

 

[Tehon]

Socialist policies are at the heart of Venezuela’s problems

It is actually populist policies that lie at the heart of Venezuela's problems.
Promises that government will provide all of societies wants and needs is populist not socialist.
Socialism promises to empower people by ending the system of exploitation inherent in capitalism as shown by Karl Marx.
Populism promises that the state will take care of the people.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The same type of socialism that the Democrats want for the United States...is being rejected in Venezuela. Tell Bernie, Nancy, and Sacajawea to pay attention.
Venezuelan Women March on Caracas Against 'Repression'

What is happening in Venezuela needs to be understood for what it is. Simply saying "This is what the Democrats want in the US" and "all socialism is like this" etc is just nonsense, for people who want everything nice and simple.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Socialist policies are at the heart of Venezuela’s problems

It is actually populist policies that lie at the heart of Venezuela's problems.
Promises that government will provide all of societies wants and needs is populist not socialist.
Socialism promises to empower people by ending the system of exploitation inherent in capitalism as shown by Karl Marx.
Populism promises that the state will take care of the people.

Socialism empowers "the people", but who are the people?

In China, supposedly a Communist country, they told the US that only "the people" could tell the Chinese govt about Human Rights. But a quick look at this suggests the "the people" is the Chinese govt. It's just another way of using words to try and confuse the people.

 

[Tehon]

Socialist policies are at the heart of Venezuela’s problems

It is actually populist policies that lie at the heart of Venezuela's problems.
Promises that government will provide all of societies wants and needs is populist not socialist.
Socialism promises to empower people by ending the system of exploitation inherent in capitalism as shown by Karl Marx.
Populism promises that the state will take care of the people.

Socialism empowers "the people", but who are the people?

In China, supposedly a Communist country, they told the US that only "the people" could tell the Chinese govt about Human Rights. But a quick look at this suggests the "the people" is the Chinese govt. It's just another way of using words to try and confuse the people.

In China, supposedly a Communist country

Well, we know that they are not a communist country because communism is theorized as a stateless society. Clearly they have a state.

Aside from the fact that they have embraced capitalism.

So to answer the question "the people" are those who are exploited or subjugated by capitalists and or the state.