China to develop more aircraft carriers

[Vikrant]

In my assessment, China has very vindictive attitude towards Japan. It is like they are clamoring for vengeance.

Actually both sides are extremely hostile towards one another. Putting all the blame on only one of them, and of course ignoring the role of the U.S., is extremely simplistic and wrong.

Unless you are talking about World War II transgressions of Japan for which Japan has already apologized, I do not see how Japan is being hostile towards China today.

Senkaku. They're both being belligerent towards each other over those islands.

It is China who is stirring up pot there. Senkau Islands were first surveyed by Japan in mid 1800s. Japan was the first country to do that. Senkaku Islands have been administered by Japan since 1895. In 1970 when oil was discovered near Senkaku, China laid its claim on Senkaku using so called ancient Chinese maps. This is the same bogus tactics Chinese have used against some other nations in the region.

You say they're bogus, and Japan says they're bogus. That doesn't mean that they are. Here are the facts: China and Japan have both laid claim to these islands, and they're both being aggressive toward the other over possessing them. It's hard to say only China is the aggressor here when you have a Japanese government violating its own constitution to build up its military again in an effort to stake its claim on these islands.

Japan was the first country to survey and administer those Islands. They have been under Japanese administration since late 1800s. This clearly establishes that those islands are Japanese Islands. Keep in mind China did not lay claim on those islands till 1970 when oil was discovered there.

If we were to use your logic, China could claim territory of any country on flimsy excuses and the poor country at the receiving end of Chinese expansionist design would be just as guilty as China for defending its territory. This is absurd.

 

[Vikrant]

Anyone else seen the Chinese film, Back to 1941? The scale is huge, the story is riveting, and the acting is first rate. It's probably the finest film to come out of China yet. It's about the people of Henan Province who fled the coastal areas for the backcountry trying to stay ahead of the invading Japanese army. Two million of them died of starvation. The film concentrates on the terrible hardships suffered by a single family. "A Spectacular Epic"--Hollywood Reporter

At any rate, a nation that lost 12 million people at the hands of an invading army isn't so ready to forgive, just because the Japanese PM spends twenty minutes at the mike saying "I'm sorry."

OK. So China is not willing to forgive and forget Japan. What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?

This kind of vengeance oriented foreign policy of China is going to deal disaster for the region, world and China itself.

The communists don't care. If they thought for a New York Minute that they could get away with nuking our cities, they'd do it. The next great conflict in China is going to be internal, the growing middle class made affluent via capitalism, against the entrenched communists who represent a very small proportion of the population, but who'd destroy the country before they'd see their power usurped. They have 400,000 paramilitary riot police to keep all the proles in line.

Rise of Chinese communists is one of the darkest chapters in our recent history. They destroyed Chinese culture. They invaded and killed neighbors. They brainwashed Chinese people to the extent that average Chinese is not sure what is right and what is wrong. The last point was perhaps the saddest.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually both sides are extremely hostile towards one another. Putting all the blame on only one of them, and of course ignoring the role of the U.S., is extremely simplistic and wrong.

Unless you are talking about World War II transgressions of Japan for which Japan has already apologized, I do not see how Japan is being hostile towards China today.

Senkaku. They're both being belligerent towards each other over those islands.

It is China who is stirring up pot there. Senkau Islands were first surveyed by Japan in mid 1800s. Japan was the first country to do that. Senkaku Islands have been administered by Japan since 1895. In 1970 when oil was discovered near Senkaku, China laid its claim on Senkaku using so called ancient Chinese maps. This is the same bogus tactics Chinese have used against some other nations in the region.

You say they're bogus, and Japan says they're bogus. That doesn't mean that they are. Here are the facts: China and Japan have both laid claim to these islands, and they're both being aggressive toward the other over possessing them. It's hard to say only China is the aggressor here when you have a Japanese government violating its own constitution to build up its military again in an effort to stake its claim on these islands.

Japan was the first country to survey and administer those Islands. They have been under Japanese administration since late 1800s. This clearly establishes that those islands are Japanese Islands. Keep in mind China did not lay claim on those islands till 1970 when oil was discovered there.

If we were to use your logic, China could claim territory of any country on flimsy excuses and the poor country at the receiving end of Chinese expansionist design would be just as guilty as China for defending its territory. This is absurd.

I'm sorry but I don't simply take your word as evidence that something is so.

 

[Vikrant]

Unless you are talking about World War II transgressions of Japan for which Japan has already apologized, I do not see how Japan is being hostile towards China today.

Senkaku. They're both being belligerent towards each other over those islands.

It is China who is stirring up pot there. Senkau Islands were first surveyed by Japan in mid 1800s. Japan was the first country to do that. Senkaku Islands have been administered by Japan since 1895. In 1970 when oil was discovered near Senkaku, China laid its claim on Senkaku using so called ancient Chinese maps. This is the same bogus tactics Chinese have used against some other nations in the region.

You say they're bogus, and Japan says they're bogus. That doesn't mean that they are. Here are the facts: China and Japan have both laid claim to these islands, and they're both being aggressive toward the other over possessing them. It's hard to say only China is the aggressor here when you have a Japanese government violating its own constitution to build up its military again in an effort to stake its claim on these islands.

Japan was the first country to survey and administer those Islands. They have been under Japanese administration since late 1800s. This clearly establishes that those islands are Japanese Islands. Keep in mind China did not lay claim on those islands till 1970 when oil was discovered there.

If we were to use your logic, China could claim territory of any country on flimsy excuses and the poor country at the receiving end of Chinese expansionist design would be just as guilty as China for defending its territory. This is absurd.

I'm sorry but I don't simply take your word as evidence that something is so.

Are you saying China discovered, surveyed and administered Senkaku before Japan did?

 

[Vikrant]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

 

[Politico]

China has to cover Russias backdoor when Russia pre-emptively nuclear strikes the USA.

How can they do that? They would have to be able to land planes on the first one.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Senkaku. They're both being belligerent towards each other over those islands.

It is China who is stirring up pot there. Senkau Islands were first surveyed by Japan in mid 1800s. Japan was the first country to do that. Senkaku Islands have been administered by Japan since 1895. In 1970 when oil was discovered near Senkaku, China laid its claim on Senkaku using so called ancient Chinese maps. This is the same bogus tactics Chinese have used against some other nations in the region.

You say they're bogus, and Japan says they're bogus. That doesn't mean that they are. Here are the facts: China and Japan have both laid claim to these islands, and they're both being aggressive toward the other over possessing them. It's hard to say only China is the aggressor here when you have a Japanese government violating its own constitution to build up its military again in an effort to stake its claim on these islands.

Japan was the first country to survey and administer those Islands. They have been under Japanese administration since late 1800s. This clearly establishes that those islands are Japanese Islands. Keep in mind China did not lay claim on those islands till 1970 when oil was discovered there.

If we were to use your logic, China could claim territory of any country on flimsy excuses and the poor country at the receiving end of Chinese expansionist design would be just as guilty as China for defending its territory. This is absurd.

I'm sorry but I don't simply take your word as evidence that something is so.

Are you saying China discovered, surveyed and administered Senkaku before Japan did?

No, I'm not making a claim either way. Merely pointing out that I don't simply accept the word of somebody on a message board, especially when they seem to have a bias against one of the participants in a dispute and want to simplify it down to only being that participant's fault.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

 

[Vikrant]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

Your entire post is devoid of what sane people call logic. I am very sorry for the harsh nature of my characterization of your post but that is the truth.

The timeline only goes as far back as 1895 because that is the earliest recorded history we have of Senkaku Islands. Now, if you have any proof of recorded history of Chinese presence in Senkaku Islands before 1895, please provide it. By proof I mean impartial sources not Chinese propaganda materials designed to brainwash the gullible.

There is no proof that China has ever been more advanced than Japan. I am simply not going to accept that China was the most advanced civilization just because a biased person on the internet says so. It was an advanced civilization but there is no proof that it was more advanced than Japan. Lack of ancient Chinese maritime accomplishments is quite evident. Even Indians who do not make the claim of being the most advanced civilization have left plenty of proofs that demonstrate their ancient maritime activities. All you have to do is take trips to islands like Java, Sumatra, Bali, etc. and see for yourself. There is no such proof of Chinese activities. This clearly establishes that Chinese did not have capability to survey and administer Senkaku Islands before Japan did. I am pretty sure that Chinese may have been aware of those islands before 1895 but so could have been other people in the area; that does not say much either way. There is difference between being aware of something and taking steps to claim ownership.

Once humans started venturing out, they looked for and settled vacant lands to avoid conflicts - at least the good ones. That is what Japanese did. Unlike Chinese who massacred Tibetans to take over Tibet, Japanese did not kill anyone on Senkaku Islands to take over the islands simply because the islands were uninhabited. So, it baffles me that you are attempting to establish parallels between Chinese actions in Tibet and Japanese actions in Senkaku.

Japan is not going by any ancient claims. It surveyed the islands in 1895 and it has pretty much administered the islands ever since. China never controlled the islands. It simply started to claim the islands sometime after 1970 when the oil was discovered there.

China has to sooner or later realize that everything that happened in the past cannot be replicated today. Whatever China had in past is in past. They have to face the current realities. It is not just China, every country has to keep that in mind. For example, during Mauryan Empire, India controlled large land mass that included current day Afghanistan, Pakistan, Myanmar, Bangladesh, etc. India even had governors on islands in current day Indonesia, Sri Lanka, etc.

Your position on this issue is not neutral. Here is why. Those islands are Japanese islands. By saying that both Japan and China have equal claims on those islands, you are making those islands disputed. That is precisely what China is doing. It has turned Japanese islands into disputed territory using propaganda.

My position is that Japan is the legitimate owner of Senkaku Islands. Furthermore, Chinese position is irresponsible and it violates international laws and conventions. It threatens a war which can be avoided by sticking to current status quo. In light of all this, it becomes clear that China does not value human rights.

 

[Syriusly]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

Your entire post is devoid of what sane people call logic. I am very sorry for the harsh nature of my characterization of your post but that is the truth.

The timeline only goes as far back as 1895 because that is the earliest recorded history we have of Senkaku Islands. Now, if you have any proof of recorded history of Chinese presence in Senkaku Islands before 1895, please provide it. By proof I mean impartial sources not Chinese propaganda materials designed to brainwash the gullible.

There is no proof that China has ever been more advanced than Japan. I am simply not going to accept that China was the most advanced civilization just because a biased person on the internet says so. It was an advanced civilization but there is no proof that it was more advanced than Japan. Lack of ancient Chinese maritime accomplishments is quite evident. Even Indians who do not make the claim of being the most advanced civilization have left plenty of proofs that demonstrate their ancient maritime activities. All you have to do is take trips to islands like Java, Sumatra, Bali, etc. and see for yourself. There is no such proof of Chinese activities. .

Really? No proof that China was ever more advance than Japan?

Who developed the writing system that Japan uses today? (Actually as I understand it, 1 of the three systems Japan uses today). Japan adopted Chinese script- not the other way around.

Japan is an ancient civilization, but China is even more ancient.

And Chinese maritime expertise is quite well known- we know that China made it at least to the East Coast of Africa by the 1400's.

As far as other claims- this appears to have a compelling argument to the other claims

Senkaku Diaoyu Islands of Conflict History Today

Mind you- I don't really care who owns them- Japan or China- just that it isn't exactly as simple as you portray it.

 

[Vikrant]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

Your entire post is devoid of what sane people call logic. I am very sorry for the harsh nature of my characterization of your post but that is the truth.

The timeline only goes as far back as 1895 because that is the earliest recorded history we have of Senkaku Islands. Now, if you have any proof of recorded history of Chinese presence in Senkaku Islands before 1895, please provide it. By proof I mean impartial sources not Chinese propaganda materials designed to brainwash the gullible.

There is no proof that China has ever been more advanced than Japan. I am simply not going to accept that China was the most advanced civilization just because a biased person on the internet says so. It was an advanced civilization but there is no proof that it was more advanced than Japan. Lack of ancient Chinese maritime accomplishments is quite evident. Even Indians who do not make the claim of being the most advanced civilization have left plenty of proofs that demonstrate their ancient maritime activities. All you have to do is take trips to islands like Java, Sumatra, Bali, etc. and see for yourself. There is no such proof of Chinese activities. .

Really? No proof that China was ever more advance than Japan?

Who developed the writing system that Japan uses today? (Actually as I understand it, 1 of the three systems Japan uses today). Japan adopted Chinese script- not the other way around.

Japan is an ancient civilization, but China is even more ancient.

And Chinese maritime expertise is quite well known- we know that China made it at least to the East Coast of Africa by the 1400's.

As far as other claims- this appears to have a compelling argument to the other claims

Senkaku Diaoyu Islands of Conflict History Today

Mind you- I don't really care who owns them- Japan or China- just that it isn't exactly as simple as you portray it.

Languages move around and get modified in the process. It is a pretty standard stuff. For example, Sanskrit is considered mother (or father depending on your preference) of all Indo-European languages. This does not mean India is more advanced than England. Kanji of Japanese writing system is based on Chinese characters. But rest of the components of Japanese writing systems such as kanas (hiragana and katakana) were Japanese inventions that showed the superiority of Japanese culture.

Japan and China are bothe ancient. Japan has been a bit superior.

The myth propagated by Gavin Menzies that China explored African and American coasts in 1421 has been debunked by various competent scholars/organizations. I will name a few here:

a) Australian Broadcasting Corporations aired a program debunking this myth. It was called Junk History.
b) Victor Prescott who is a professor who specializes in cartography found flaws with the maps that were supposedly used by Chinese explorers.
c) Geoff Wade, a prominet researcher too had issues with the cartography of Gavin Menzies.
d) Professor Bill Richardson from Australia called those maps fake.
e) Dr Stephen Davies from Hong Kong investigated and found no record whatsoever of a Chinese ship docking in any of the Italy's harbor as claimed by Menzies.
f) P. J. Rivers, Master Mariner called the book a product of Menzies's imagination. He investigated Menzies's claim that Chinese sailed through Cairo. There was nor record of it whatsoever anywhere.

Now, let us come back to the link you have posted about Senkaku Islands dispute. That link itself says that Chinese made the claim on Senkaku in 1970s. Why did Chinese wait for so long to make the claim if the islands were part of their territory for hundreds of years?

I do not take your claim of neutrality seriously given that you have posted nothing but Chinese propaganda even though they have been debunked thoroughly.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

China has to cover Russias backdoor when Russia pre-emptively nuclear strikes the USA.

Neither will attack the US.

 

[Staidhup]

China and Russia are just filling a void and nature detests voids, thank the President and all his minions. We allowed government to dumb down education so it stands to reason national defense should be compromised as well. As a wise man once said you have a choice, cut government spending or you will be forced to cut national defense.

 

[Syriusly]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

Your entire post is devoid of what sane people call logic. I am very sorry for the harsh nature of my characterization of your post but that is the truth.

The timeline only goes as far back as 1895 because that is the earliest recorded history we have of Senkaku Islands. Now, if you have any proof of recorded history of Chinese presence in Senkaku Islands before 1895, please provide it. By proof I mean impartial sources not Chinese propaganda materials designed to brainwash the gullible.

There is no proof that China has ever been more advanced than Japan. I am simply not going to accept that China was the most advanced civilization just because a biased person on the internet says so. It was an advanced civilization but there is no proof that it was more advanced than Japan. Lack of ancient Chinese maritime accomplishments is quite evident. Even Indians who do not make the claim of being the most advanced civilization have left plenty of proofs that demonstrate their ancient maritime activities. All you have to do is take trips to islands like Java, Sumatra, Bali, etc. and see for yourself. There is no such proof of Chinese activities. .

Really? No proof that China was ever more advance than Japan?

Who developed the writing system that Japan uses today? (Actually as I understand it, 1 of the three systems Japan uses today). Japan adopted Chinese script- not the other way around.

Japan is an ancient civilization, but China is even more ancient.

And Chinese maritime expertise is quite well known- we know that China made it at least to the East Coast of Africa by the 1400's.

As far as other claims- this appears to have a compelling argument to the other claims

Senkaku Diaoyu Islands of Conflict History Today

Mind you- I don't really care who owns them- Japan or China- just that it isn't exactly as simple as you portray it.

Languages move around and get modified in the process. It is a pretty standard stuff. For example, Sanskrit is considered mother (or father depending on your preference) of all Indo-European languages. This does not mean India is more advanced than England. Kanji of Japanese writing system is based on Chinese characters. But rest of the components of Japanese writing systems such as kanas (hiragana and katakana) were Japanese inventions that showed the superiority of Japanese culture.

Japan and China are bothe ancient. Japan has been a bit superior.

The myth propagated by Gavin Menzies that China explored African and American coasts in 1421 has been debunked by various competent scholars/organizations. I will name a few here:

a) Australian Broadcasting Corporations aired a program debunking this myth. It was called Junk History.
b) Victor Prescott who is a professor who specializes in cartography found flaws with the maps that were supposedly used by Chinese explorers.
c) Geoff Wade, a prominet researcher too had issues with the cartography of Gavin Menzies.
d) Professor Bill Richardson from Australia called those maps fake.
e) Dr Stephen Davies from Hong Kong investigated and found no record whatsoever of a Chinese ship docking in any of the Italy's harbor as claimed by Menzies.
f) P. J. Rivers, Master Mariner called the book a product of Menzies's imagination. He investigated Menzies's claim that Chinese sailed through Cairo. There was nor record of it whatsoever anywhere.

Now, let us come back to the link you have posted about Senkaku Islands dispute. That link itself says that Chinese made the claim on Senkaku in 1970s. Why did Chinese wait for so long to make the claim if the islands were part of their territory for hundreds of years?

I do not take your claim of neutrality seriously given that you have posted nothing but Chinese propaganda even though they have been debunked thoroughly.

Okay lets go through this step by step

Writing- writing is separate from languages- which is why for instance English can use Latin script, and Japan can use Chinese logograms.

The Chinese developed the logograms, and the Japanese adopted them- not the other way around.

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

Your entire post is devoid of what sane people call logic. I am very sorry for the harsh nature of my characterization of your post but that is the truth.

The timeline only goes as far back as 1895 because that is the earliest recorded history we have of Senkaku Islands. Now, if you have any proof of recorded history of Chinese presence in Senkaku Islands before 1895, please provide it. By proof I mean impartial sources not Chinese propaganda materials designed to brainwash the gullible.

There is no proof that China has ever been more advanced than Japan. I am simply not going to accept that China was the most advanced civilization just because a biased person on the internet says so. It was an advanced civilization but there is no proof that it was more advanced than Japan. Lack of ancient Chinese maritime accomplishments is quite evident. Even Indians who do not make the claim of being the most advanced civilization have left plenty of proofs that demonstrate their ancient maritime activities. All you have to do is take trips to islands like Java, Sumatra, Bali, etc. and see for yourself. There is no such proof of Chinese activities. .

Really? No proof that China was ever more advance than Japan?

Who developed the writing system that Japan uses today? (Actually as I understand it, 1 of the three systems Japan uses today). Japan adopted Chinese script- not the other way around.

Japan is an ancient civilization, but China is even more ancient.

And Chinese maritime expertise is quite well known- we know that China made it at least to the East Coast of Africa by the 1400's.

As far as other claims- this appears to have a compelling argument to the other claims

Senkaku Diaoyu Islands of Conflict History Today

Mind you- I don't really care who owns them- Japan or China- just that it isn't exactly as simple as you portray it.

Languages move around and get modified in the process. It is a pretty standard stuff. For example, Sanskrit is considered mother (or father depending on your preference) of all Indo-European languages. This does not mean India is more advanced than England. Kanji of Japanese writing system is based on Chinese characters. But rest of the components of Japanese writing systems such as kanas (hiragana and katakana) were Japanese inventions that showed the superiority of Japanese culture.

Japan and China are bothe ancient. Japan has been a bit superior.
.

Let us review what your original claim was:


There is no proof that China has ever been more advanced than Japan

Chinese logograms predate Japanese kanas. China was using a writing system before Japan was.

Modern Day Views

Nowadays there is more-or-less consensus on a few points concerning the origin of writing. First of all, writing was invented independently in at least three places, Mesopotamia, China, and Mesoamerica. Recent discoveries might also provide evidence that writing was invented in Egypt and Indus independently of Mesopotamia.

Ancient Scripts Origins of Writing Systems

Chinese writing, basically logographic writing system, one of the world’s great writing systems.

Like Semitic writing in the West, Chinese script was fundamental to the writing systems in the East. Until relatively recently, Chinese writing was more widely in use than alphabetic writing systems, and until the 18th century more than half of the world’s books were written in Chinese, including works of speculative thought, historical writings of a kind, and novels, along with writings on government and law.

It is not known when Chinese writing originated, but it apparently began to develop in the early 2nd millennium bc. The earliest known inscriptions, each of which contains between 10 and 60 characters incised on pieces of bone and tortoiseshell that were used for oracular divination, date from the Shang (or Yin) dynasty (18th–12th century bc), but, by then it was already a highly developed system, essentially similar to its present form. By 1400 bc the script included some 2,500 to 3,000 characters, most of which can be read to this day. Later stages in the development of Chinese writing include the guwen (“ancient figures”) found in inscriptions from the lateShang dynasty (c. 1123 bc) and the early years of the Zhou dynasty that followed. The major script of the Zhou dynasty, which ruled from 1046 to 256 bc, was the dazhuan (“great seal”), also called the Zhou wen (“Zhou script”). By the end of the Zhou dynasty the dazhuan had degenerated to some extent.

The script was fixed in its present form during the Qin period (221–207 bc). The earliest graphs were schematic pictures of what they represented; the graph for man resembled a standing figure, that for woman depicted a kneeling figure.

Chinese writing -- Encyclopedia Britannica


I do not claim that China is superior to Japan- or vice versa- but China is the older civilization, and clearly was more advanced when it came to writing than Japan up until Japan developed its own writing system- and adopted China's.

 

[Vikrant]

China being an older civilization does not mean China settled Senkaku before Japan given the clear lack of Chinese maritime capabilities. Menzies is the one who started propagating this myth. It goes beyond Menzies though. But the scholars have clearly demonstrated that there is no proof of Chinese ships sailing anywhere near Africa in 1400. There is no record in India either that proves that Chinese visited India through sea in 1400. This is all hoax. You are welcome to believe it. I am done with this topic.

 

[Syriusly]

China being an older civilization does not mean China settled Senkaku before Japan given the clear lack of Chinese maritime capabilities. Menzies is the one who started propagating this myth. It goes beyond Menzies though. But the scholars have clearly demonstrated that there is no proof of Chinese ships sailing anywhere near Africa in 1400. There is no record in India either that proves that Chinese visited India through sea in 1400. This is all hoax. You are welcome to believe it. I am done with this topic.

Yes you are done with it.

LOL.....

 

[Vikrant]

China being an older civilization does not mean China settled Senkaku before Japan given the clear lack of Chinese maritime capabilities. Menzies is the one who started propagating this myth. It goes beyond Menzies though. But the scholars have clearly demonstrated that there is no proof of Chinese ships sailing anywhere near Africa in 1400. There is no record in India either that proves that Chinese visited India through sea in 1400. This is all hoax. You are welcome to believe it. I am done with this topic.

Yes you are done with it.

LOL.....

I am certainly done with China being superior to Japan This is not my first rodeo. I have debated with Chinese posters making outlandish claims before. It gets tiring and boring real fast. Communist party has brainwashed Chinese people. Now they are on a mission to brainwash rest of us

 

[Vikrant]

The issue with the handlers of China is that they are trying to makeup for what they lacked by rewriting what is called revisionist history.

 

[Syriusly]

China being an older civilization does not mean China settled Senkaku before Japan given the clear lack of Chinese maritime capabilities. Menzies is the one who started propagating this myth. It goes beyond Menzies though. But the scholars have clearly demonstrated that there is no proof of Chinese ships sailing anywhere near Africa in 1400. There is no record in India either that proves that Chinese visited India through sea in 1400. This is all hoax. You are welcome to believe it. I am done with this topic.

Yes you are done with it.

LOL.....

I am certainly done with China being superior to Japan This is not my first rodeo. I have debated with Chinese posters making outlandish claims before. It gets tiring and boring real fast. Communist party has brainwashed Chinese people. Now they are on a mission to brainwash rest of us

LOL.....Then don't make outlandish claims yourself.

Both the Chinese and Japanese civilizations are older than every Western country- both have reasons to be proud of their accomplishments, and both have events that they would prefer to ignore.

 

[Vikrant]

China being an older civilization does not mean China settled Senkaku before Japan given the clear lack of Chinese maritime capabilities. Menzies is the one who started propagating this myth. It goes beyond Menzies though. But the scholars have clearly demonstrated that there is no proof of Chinese ships sailing anywhere near Africa in 1400. There is no record in India either that proves that Chinese visited India through sea in 1400. This is all hoax. You are welcome to believe it. I am done with this topic.

Yes you are done with it.

LOL.....

I am certainly done with China being superior to Japan This is not my first rodeo. I have debated with Chinese posters making outlandish claims before. It gets tiring and boring real fast. Communist party has brainwashed Chinese people. Now they are on a mission to brainwash rest of us

LOL.....Then don't make outlandish claims yourself.

Both the Chinese and Japanese civilizations are older than every Western country- both have reasons to be proud of their accomplishments, and both have events that they would prefer to ignore.

You made outlandish claims. I simply debunked you. Then you wrote large volume of garbage. Finally, now you are creating a straw man argument. Your posting style is textbook example of propaganda.