Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[paperview]

Really? Ever heard of Augusta National Golf Club? No women allowed for how many years?

Immie

But because of ****Free Speech Rights*** -- and that alone, not gov't intervention, they started to allow women golfers. Or didn't you notice?

Yes, I knew. I said "for how many years"?

They should have opened their membership up decades ago. Well actually, membership should never have been closed to women, but not much we can do about that now... by the way, who wants to belong to any club without women anyway?

Immie

I'm with you on that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

There were five reporters from the local paper, Willamette Week, who contacted Sweet Cakes (and other bakeries in the area) asking about different options for cakes.

WW Asks - I was calling to get a quote on a cake for a midsummer solstice party. My coven is celebrating on Friday, June 21. The decoration would be very simple: just a green pentagram. We’d like to pick it up sometime that afternoon, before the bonfire. It’ll be for about 30 people.


Sweet Cake says - “For 30 people we have a couple options... We have two kind of cakes you could have. About the diagram you want on the cake, I’m not sure how much extra that would be.”


Cake Wars: Asking Shops Who Denied Gays Cakes What Cakes They'll Make


It is revealing once the Sweet Cakey bakers found out they were caught going against another tenant of the Christian faith, they contacted Lars Larson to cry victimhood some more.


"Sweet Cakes owners Melissa and Aaron Klein were upset that we “would even try to entrap a business” and contacted conservative talk-show host Lars Larson. "

And different bakeries. Game over. Screw off. WWeek is a pro gay website too... you really think they would do honest reporting? Yes, I knew you'd try that. You dishonest prick!

Jebus be watching...

Since when did you care what Jesus thinks?

 

[Alfalfa]

That is not what I said but it appears a lot more realistic than the shit presented stated he called them an "abomination to The Lord" especially one that does not seem to have been backed up by anything whatsoever.

Immie

Based on other comments alleged to be made by the bakery owners and ones they have not denied, I have no reason to believe they didn't make this comment as alleged by others. Personally, I'm surprised they didn't go further like "you're going to hell!".

I haven't seen you deny saying that you are a scum eating slug, does that mean I should assume you are?

Well, if you're calling me a scum eating slug, yes, I deny it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But because of ****Free Speech Rights*** -- and that alone, not gov't intervention, they started to allow women golfers. Or didn't you notice?

Wait, how do woman golfers relate to this discussion?

Because Immie brought it up?

Doofus.

Whatever. You're just trolling people now. Gone back at least three pages and that is all you have done. You think you know everything there is to know, don't you?

 

[Alfalfa]

Wrong. They did NOT refuse to serve gay people. They refused to participate in an activity they did not condone. They don't refuse to serve black people. But if the black people were wanting them to deliver and set up products at some sort of voodoo ceremony or Satanic festival, and they refused the order on that basis due to their religious convictions, THAT would be comparable to refusing to serve a gay wedding.

And if you think it is okay to destroy somebody's livelihood for what YOU define as bigotry, then it is okay if they destroy your livelihood for what THEY define as bigotry?

If holding unpopular beliefs is justification for having one's business destroyed due to the bigotry of others, then we have no freedom left in America. Because to condemn and intentionally destroy people for what they believe is the worst form of bigotry.

And freedom loving people will condemn it every time because it is pure evil.

Baking a cake is not participating in a marriage it is baking a cake.

Baking a cake is art, and protected under the 1st Amendment.

Want to try and argue that your grandmother didn't consider what she did art?

I'm sure somehow this makes sense to you.

 

[Alfalfa]

there is a way to be able to discriminate in your business.

you have to declare you business a private club and only allow in members.

all members must be served.

but if you don't blacks, Jews, gays, whatever...all you have to do is not invite them to be members.

But they would go out of business pretty quick.

Really? Ever heard of Augusta National Golf Club? No women allowed for how many years?

Immie

You're comparing a private golf club with a public cake baking business?

 

[paperview]

You are an idiot, and a bigot, but you think you are smart, so that should help.

Public accommodation laws apply to every business, even those owned by blacks, and force them to serve the KKK if they show up. I have an actual case to back my position up, all you have is your delusional belief that you are smarter than I am.

Er...

From the other case (from a Mar 2103 story):

"Questions from the Supreme Court justices during the hearing centered on how to differentiate between photography being a business or protected artistic expression.


"Are there no limits to this?" asked Justice Richard Bosson. "Can you force an African-American photographer to take photos of the Ku Klux Klan?"


Justice Charles Daniels noted the Klan is not a protected class. But he did say the questions in the case revolve around the rights of the couple and the photographer."


Appeal by photographer in gay bias case is heard


And then the Court addressed that here, in it's ruling:


{55}
Elane Photography also suggests that enforcing the NMHRA against it would mean that an African-American photographer could not legally refuse to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally.

This hypothetical suffers from the reality that political views and political group membership, including membership in the Klan, are not protected categories under the NMHRA.

See § 28-1-7(F) (prohibiting public accommodation discrimination based on“race, religion, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,spousal affiliation or physical or mental handicap&#8221.

Therefore, an African-American could decline to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally. However, the point is well-taken when the roles in the hypothetical are reversed—a Ku Klux Klan member who operates a photography business as a public accommodation would be compelled to photograph an African-American under the NMHRA.

This result is required by the NMHRA, which seeks to promote equal rights and access to public accommodations by prohibiting discrimination based on certain specified protected classifications.

Elane Photography v. Vanessa Willock

Now we have an idiot that thinks he can read minds.

Guess what, you can't. I was talking about a biker gang wearing Nazi symbols in a restaurant, and the restaraunt losing when they were sued for not serving them and calling the police.
...

Link.

 

[Immanuel]

You are an idiot, and a bigot, but you think you are smart, so that should help.

Public accommodation laws apply to every business, even those owned by blacks, and force them to serve the KKK if they show up. I have an actual case to back my position up, all you have is your delusional belief that you are smarter than I am.

Er...

From the other case (from a Mar 2103 story):

"Questions from the Supreme Court justices during the hearing centered on how to differentiate between photography being a business or protected artistic expression.


"Are there no limits to this?" asked Justice Richard Bosson. "Can you force an African-American photographer to take photos of the Ku Klux Klan?"


Justice Charles Daniels noted the Klan is not a protected class. But he did say the questions in the case revolve around the rights of the couple and the photographer."


Appeal by photographer in gay bias case is heard


And then the Court addressed that here, in it's ruling:


{55}
Elane Photography also suggests that enforcing the NMHRA against it would mean that an African-American photographer could not legally refuse to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally.

This hypothetical suffers from the reality that political views and political group membership, including membership in the Klan, are not protected categories under the NMHRA.

See § 28-1-7(F) (prohibiting public accommodation discrimination based on“race, religion, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,spousal affiliation or physical or mental handicap”).

Therefore, an African-American could decline to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally. However, the point is well-taken when the roles in the hypothetical are reversed—a Ku Klux Klan member who operates a photography business as a public accommodation would be compelled to photograph an African-American under the NMHRA.

This result is required by the NMHRA, which seeks to promote equal rights and access to public accommodations by prohibiting discrimination based on certain specified protected classifications.

Elane Photography v. Vanessa Willock

Now we have an idiot that thinks he can read minds.

Guess what, you can't. I was talking about a biker gang wearing Nazi symbols in a restaurant, and the restaraunt losing when they were sued for not serving them and calling the police.

Don't worry though, you have a fake thick skin, so being so stupid you think you can read minds, and being bitch slapped as a result, shouldn't bother you.

On the other hand, part of this discussion did in fact deal with whether or not a hypothetical black gun shop owner should be required to sell weapons and ammo to the KKK. In the case mentioned in the post it was a black photographer and the KKK. I think PPV's post was appropriate in this discussion and I didn't get the impression that PPV was trying to "read your mind", just make a relevant post. You stated you had an actual case to back your statement up. PPV simply replied with an actual case as well.

Immie

 

[Katzndogz]

I have actually had a similar thing happen to me between Memphis and Jackson MI because my family was white. We were refused lunch in a sandwich shop in 1989 and told we should go elsewhere. We had been to the gates of Graceland, I was too cheap to actually go in, and drove South into Mississippi. We stopped for lunch. Sat down in a very dark as in the room was not lit, room and waited. After waiting a minute or two a woman's voice hollered from the counter, "can I help you?" It was obvious she was black. We conversed briefly, I stated we would like some lunch and that we were from California. She actually told me we should go somewhere else. She was not rude, but she clearly was not going to serve us. It wasn't until I left and drove a half mile or so that I realized we were the only white people around. I have told myself ever since that she did that for our safety. Now, I wish I could go back and meet her personally again. There is no place in this world for such fear and distrust. Like I said, she wasn't rude, but there was definitely something that brought her to not want to serve a 30ish white man, his wife and two little girls under the age of 5.

It would be so cool to meet her again and get to understand the dynamics of that encounter. Was she protecting us or was she afraid of us?

Too bad we have to fear each other because of the color of our skin!

Immie

Last May when I was apartment hunting my agent directed me to an apartment in Lawndale. The apartment was nice. It filled the bill. The rent was good and the black woman who was the building manager was friendly. She said "Honey, I will rent you the apartment. I got two lazy sons that will help you move when I put a firecracker up their butts. But, this is no place you should be living. It isn't safe and would damn sure not be safe for you. Here's the application, you think about it and pray over it."

That woman may have saved your lives. You had little kids with you. What were you thinking?

 

[TemplarKormac]

You guys don't think it's funny when people make fun of or criticize gay people, but you seem not to mind when it comes to making fun of or criticizing Christians. Why the double standard?

Are you referring to the video that was posted that mocks your religion? I realise it was offensive to you, but where in the video was there any false information. Sounds like this person did their research.

Sounds like she didn't. Nor did you.

Here's a question. Would I go around disrespecting Islam in the same manner people like you insult my faith? Muslims not only go as far as to discriminate against homosexuals, they kill them. Not only that, but they have no respect for women. But see, nobody points that out. People act as if my faith is the only one remotely capable of being indifferent to gays or women. I remember once hearing some random liberal say they were all about religious tolerance, tolerance and social equality; well... given some of the reactions on this thread by some, I've come to see that as a blatant lie. This instance with the bakery only strengthens that belief.

Notice that the majority of the time I have been on this board, I have never denigrated someone for their faith, or their sexual orientation. I have made many attempts to make peace with my enemies (yes you at one point) Yeah, I call people stupid and idiotic all the time (yes, yes I know, not Christian) but still. Would you peg me for the intolerant type? Noomi?

 

[Immanuel]

But they would go out of business pretty quick.

Really? Ever heard of Augusta National Golf Club? No women allowed for how many years?

Immie

You're comparing a private golf club with a public cake baking business?

No, you stated any business that discriminated would go out of business rather quickly. I'm pointing out that you are wrong in that case and in fact in many cases. Actually, most cases. Bigots don't get run out of business, because it is too easy to find customers that agree with them usually silently.

In fact, apparently, even Sweet Cakes by Melissa, those evil Christian bigots are not out of business. They simply relocated and they may even see their business grow because of this.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Based on other comments alleged to be made by the bakery owners and ones they have not denied, I have no reason to believe they didn't make this comment as alleged by others. Personally, I'm surprised they didn't go further like "you're going to hell!".

I haven't seen you deny saying that you are a scum eating slug, does that mean I should assume you are?

Well, if you're calling me a scum eating slug, yes, I deny it.

Now you deny it, why didn't you deny it before?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Baking a cake is not participating in a marriage it is baking a cake.

Baking a cake is art, and protected under the 1st Amendment.

Want to try and argue that your grandmother didn't consider what she did art?

I'm sure somehow this makes sense to you.

I am even more sure it doesn't to you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Er...

From the other case (from a Mar 2103 story):

"Questions from the Supreme Court justices during the hearing centered on how to differentiate between photography being a business or protected artistic expression.


"Are there no limits to this?" asked Justice Richard Bosson. "Can you force an African-American photographer to take photos of the Ku Klux Klan?"


Justice Charles Daniels noted the Klan is not a protected class. But he did say the questions in the case revolve around the rights of the couple and the photographer."


Appeal by photographer in gay bias case is heard


And then the Court addressed that here, in it's ruling:


{55}
Elane Photography also suggests that enforcing the NMHRA against it would mean that an African-American photographer could not legally refuse to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally.

This hypothetical suffers from the reality that political views and political group membership, including membership in the Klan, are not protected categories under the NMHRA.

See § 28-1-7(F) (prohibiting public accommodation discrimination based on“race, religion, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,spousal affiliation or physical or mental handicap”).

Therefore, an African-American could decline to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally. However, the point is well-taken when the roles in the hypothetical are reversed—a Ku Klux Klan member who operates a photography business as a public accommodation would be compelled to photograph an African-American under the NMHRA.

This result is required by the NMHRA, which seeks to promote equal rights and access to public accommodations by prohibiting discrimination based on certain specified protected classifications.

Elane Photography v. Vanessa Willock

Now we have an idiot that thinks he can read minds.

Guess what, you can't. I was talking about a biker gang wearing Nazi symbols in a restaurant, and the restaraunt losing when they were sued for not serving them and calling the police.
...

Link.

Look it up, I made two threads about it since I have been here.

 

[paperview]

Now we have an idiot that thinks he can read minds.

Guess what, you can't. I was talking about a biker gang wearing Nazi symbols in a restaurant, and the restaraunt losing when they were sued for not serving them and calling the police.
...

Link.

Look it up, I made two threads about it since I have been here.

So you can't link it?

How do I know it wasn't blown out of the water, like your other threads?

 

[Alfalfa]

It disagrees with your personally held opinions.

In 1960, I could be fired for getting married or they could have told a black person to leave. In 1960 I was 15 years old and there weren't any work permits. There was a lot more freedom in 1960 than today.

So what happens TODAY, if a job applicant shows up for an interview and refuses the job solely because the boss is gay? If there is a civil right to the labor of another can the applicant be forced to work there?

Sorry, still smells.

I'm not buying that your two lesbo employers were fine with you being a straight employee but locked you out when you got married. Plus, you were 15?

They were quite nice about it and explained it clearly. Discrimination was not an often used word in 1960. Ii had worked for them for two years. Since I was 13. I mentioned it solely to illustrate the level of freedom people had in 1960 compared to what people have today. To me, then and now, those women had an absolute right to fire me for any reason or no reason. They had the same right to fire me as I had to quit. The baker should have the same right to decline a customer as the customer has to go to another bakery.

It's called freedom the US should try it again.

How old is your oldest child?

 

[daws101]

may be the bigot bakers should have posted a sign : no shoes no shirt no lesbians no gays no democrats no ethnicities no exceptions (being ironic)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Er...

From the other case (from a Mar 2103 story):

"Questions from the Supreme Court justices during the hearing centered on how to differentiate between photography being a business or protected artistic expression.


"Are there no limits to this?" asked Justice Richard Bosson. "Can you force an African-American photographer to take photos of the Ku Klux Klan?"


Justice Charles Daniels noted the Klan is not a protected class. But he did say the questions in the case revolve around the rights of the couple and the photographer."


Appeal by photographer in gay bias case is heard


And then the Court addressed that here, in it's ruling:


{55}
Elane Photography also suggests that enforcing the NMHRA against it would mean that an African-American photographer could not legally refuse to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally.

This hypothetical suffers from the reality that political views and political group membership, including membership in the Klan, are not protected categories under the NMHRA.

See § 28-1-7(F) (prohibiting public accommodation discrimination based on“race, religion, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,spousal affiliation or physical or mental handicap”).

Therefore, an African-American could decline to photograph a Ku Klux Klan rally. However, the point is well-taken when the roles in the hypothetical are reversed—a Ku Klux Klan member who operates a photography business as a public accommodation would be compelled to photograph an African-American under the NMHRA.

This result is required by the NMHRA, which seeks to promote equal rights and access to public accommodations by prohibiting discrimination based on certain specified protected classifications.

Elane Photography v. Vanessa Willock

Now we have an idiot that thinks he can read minds.

Guess what, you can't. I was talking about a biker gang wearing Nazi symbols in a restaurant, and the restaraunt losing when they were sued for not serving them and calling the police.

Don't worry though, you have a fake thick skin, so being so stupid you think you can read minds, and being bitch slapped as a result, shouldn't bother you.

On the other hand, part of this discussion did in fact deal with whether or not a hypothetical black gun shop owner should be required to sell weapons and ammo to the KKK. In the case mentioned in the post it was a black photographer and the KKK. I think PPV's post was appropriate in this discussion and I didn't get the impression that PPV was trying to "read your mind", just make a relevant post. You stated you had an actual case to back your statement up. PPV simply replied with an actual case as well.

Immie

He replied to me. It may have been applicable to the thread, but it wasn't applicable to my post.

 

[Immanuel]

I have actually had a similar thing happen to me between Memphis and Jackson MI because my family was white. We were refused lunch in a sandwich shop in 1989 and told we should go elsewhere. We had been to the gates of Graceland, I was too cheap to actually go in, and drove South into Mississippi. We stopped for lunch. Sat down in a very dark as in the room was not lit, room and waited. After waiting a minute or two a woman's voice hollered from the counter, "can I help you?" It was obvious she was black. We conversed briefly, I stated we would like some lunch and that we were from California. She actually told me we should go somewhere else. She was not rude, but she clearly was not going to serve us. It wasn't until I left and drove a half mile or so that I realized we were the only white people around. I have told myself ever since that she did that for our safety. Now, I wish I could go back and meet her personally again. There is no place in this world for such fear and distrust. Like I said, she wasn't rude, but there was definitely something that brought her to not want to serve a 30ish white man, his wife and two little girls under the age of 5.

It would be so cool to meet her again and get to understand the dynamics of that encounter. Was she protecting us or was she afraid of us?

Too bad we have to fear each other because of the color of our skin!

Immie

Last May when I was apartment hunting my agent directed me to an apartment in Lawndale. The apartment was nice. It filled the bill. The rent was good and the black woman who was the building manager was friendly. She said "Honey, I will rent you the apartment. I got two lazy sons that will help you move when I put a firecracker up their butts. But, this is no place you should be living. It isn't safe and would damn sure not be safe for you. Here's the application, you think about it and pray over it."

That woman may have saved your lives. You had little kids with you. What were you thinking?

You know, the neighborhood didn't look all that much different than what I lived in at the time. I didn't feel the least bit threatened. But, then, I was from California and I was in the South for my first time. Yes, I had read my history and knew that things were terrible "way back then". This wasn't Chicago, it was a small "friendly" town. It didn't look "ghetto".

I have thought many times that maybe that is exactly what she did, but why? I was no threat to her or anyone around. I would have loved the opportunity to learn a little bit about the South from someone who had lived it.

Like I said, I wish I could go back and visit and maybe get a feel for what life is really like, because growing up in the SF Bay Area, I never had to deal with too much of the racial crap. Of course, I wouldn't step foot in Oakland today not even to visit my grandparent's old house.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Link.

Look it up, I made two threads about it since I have been here.

So you can't link it?

How do I know it wasn't blown out of the water, like your other threads?

I already did link it, look it up. If you think you can blow it out of the water, you shouldn't have any problem. After all, you are smarter than I am, and have a thick skin.