Collective bargaining "rights"??

[BenNatuf]

North carolina is like the god of right to work states, its a right to hire and fire state

right-to-work laws and at-will employment are two different things

meaning the job belongs to the employer and they can hire or fire you for any reason or no reason at all

That's at-will employment and has nothing to do with right-to-work laws

Whats your point? Yeah NC is BOTH a right to work state and at will employment.

 

[boedicca]

They don't have a choice. Once the workers decide to unionize, they can act as a union regardless of whether you call them a union or not.

You think the bosses just went along with it when the Wobblies came to town?

Well, how about that? A bit of intellectual honesty.

The point of union organizing is to take away the choice of the other party.

It is all about thuggery, force, and coercion.

 

[uscitizen]

Kinda like this system did last year.

Seventy-four Rhode Island teachers have been fired from Central Falls High School, as well as 19 staff members, including the principal, USA Today reports.

The elimination of the 93 school employees was validated by the Central Falls High School school board, when it voted 5-2 last night to fire all teachers from the under-performing school.

Rhode Island Teachers FIRED: Central Falls High School Officially Fires All Teachers

I would be curious to see how that school is performing now.

 

[uscitizen]

They don't have a choice. Once the workers decide to unionize, they can act as a union regardless of whether you call them a union or not.

You think the bosses just went along with it when the Wobblies came to town?

Well, how about that? A bit of intellectual honesty.

The point of union organizing is to take away the choice of the other party.

It is all about thuggery, force, and coercion.

Yep and the corporation can usually get the govt to back them up National Gusrd or even kill a few strikers or order bombing raids on them.

 

[rhodescholar]

Keep hating our democracy.

You will never be able to stop the people of this country from acting as a group

When did you start supporting democracy? Scott Walker Won. The socialists lost.

All my life.

Hell the right here claims we are not even a democracy.

I have had to often remind them of the definitions of the words.

Typical liberal asshole, democracy is great as long as we get what WE want, but if the conservatives win an election, then there is no democracy.

 

[JBeukema]

They don't have a choice. Once the workers decide to unionize, they can act as a union regardless of whether you call them a union or not.

You think the bosses just went along with it when the Wobblies came to town?

Well, how about that? A bit of intellectual honesty.

The point of union organizing is to take away the choice of the other party.

It is all about thuggery, force, and coercion.

Actually that's the idea behind calling the Pinkertons


Or behind the American War for Independence

I assume you think the FF were a bunch of evil thugs for giving George no choice but to recognize the Union

 

[JBeukema]

When did you start supporting democracy? Scott Walker Won. The socialists lost.

All my life.

Hell the right here claims we are not even a democracy.

I have had to often remind them of the definitions of the words.

Typical liberal asshole, democracy is great as long as we get what WE want, but if the conservatives win an election, then there is no democracy.

Wasn't it the Right who was all for democracy until Hamas won the election?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let me clear something up for you geniuses.

The use of the term 'right' here is not some reference to Constitutional Right, unalienable Right, natural Right, God-given Right or anything of the sort.

If any of you had paid attention in school you'd have learned that words have more than one meaning, or usage.

Answer this:

If the public sector employees in Wisconsin don't have the right to collective bargaining,

why are these lines in the governor's bill?

REPEAL COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS FOR UNIVERSITY OF
WISCONSIN HOSPITALS AND CLINICS AUTHORITY EMPLOYEES

Eliminate collective bargaining rights for employees of the University of Wisconsin
Hospitals and Clinics Authority.

 

[Truthmatters]

How does he reconcile that some employees have more rights than others?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Whatever happened to that Rightwing contempt for majorities RAMMING laws down our throats?

Wasn't that the ad nauseum complaint from the Right during the healthcare debate??

When did you rightwingers decide that you were full of shit using that line??

 

[JamesMorrison]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

Well, you won't find such 'rights' devoted to any object, whether collective this or that or a chicken in every pot every week, for that matter. Check the Constitution (the extreme Law of the Land) or even the Declaration of Independence and you will not find any right to any object. Those above founding documents guarantee only one right, other than that of one's right to live peaceably, and that is the right of an individual to PERSUE that which will allow him to flourish (Happiness) as he feels he should...period.

JM

 

[8537]

Scuze me - those people ARE the government.

No, they are not. They are a unionized labor force with the same rights of assembly as any other person. Working for the government does not require you to give up rights and privileges granted those who work for other sectors.

We The People (of Wisconsin) is the government....

The teachers' ultimate boss is We The People....led by the Governor who as the employer has the right (along with the Wisconsin representatives in congress) to cut their bennies....the employees (teachers) can unionize and whine all they want but if the employer (We The People) says to cut the bennies.....they get cut...

That's not the agreement that was struck between you and the union.

 

[mdn2000]

Yes, the right of government employees working for the public, to organize against the american citizens, to demand we give them more of our money, after we lose our jobs. What right does any person have to demand that the government force others to work to pay another person. What I have never figured out is why can anyone borrow money that people pay back in the future. How do we have the right to borrow money someone else must pay back. Does that not seem wrong.

People. Its about taxes and what is too much. Its a fool who beleives we should spend every dime we can steal and when that is gone, we borrow money, money people not born will have the burden to pay for just being born in the great USA.

Yes, those who are fortunate enough to work for government have the right to bargain, if those contracts can not be paid today, the contracts were made by an idiot. Why should we pay today because the Government negotiated poorly with, government employees, this is not a private corporation that pays the bills, its us, and we have no voice.

The people at the state level must win or we will never win on the federal level. People have won the election, people who have determined that it sucks paying taxes and seeing our jobs disappear. No matter if its a majority or minority, this generation does not have the right to make the next generation pay for their fat government retirement packages.

 

[8537]

Now were do i say they do not have the right to assemble?

Let them assemble all they want.

I do say, get rid of the unions.

Getting rid of unions = refusing to allow assembly.

You're making Chavez proud.

You're confusing the right to assemble with a right to compel other to reccognize that assembly.

No, I'm not.

 

[kaz]

In a right to work state thats true, but WI law curreently does not allow the employer to fire them. It also does not require the employer to bargain with them.

As i understand it, the workers have the right to unionize under freedom of assembly, and the right to appoint people to speak for them under freedom of speech. What they don't have is the right to compell anyone to bargain with them or even to acknowledge them.

Right to work states are the best. I'm in one now.


BREAKING NEWS RIGHT NOW ON LIMBAUGH, VIA FOX NEWS:

Average teacher's salary in Wisconsin: Over $85,000

Average teacher's salary in Wisconsin is about 49,000.

Right to work states are generally leeches on the federal government with lower average wages and crappy educational rankings.

And lower unemployment...

You made up the educational ranking part.

 

[frazzledgear]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Obviously this is a document you have never read -because there is NO SUCH RIGHT in there! Are you really that stupid you think the Constitution guarantees a "right" to collective bargaining? In a document written by a couple of hundred people and voted into existence by a nation who all believed in the rights of the INDIVIDUAL? Are you for real? Hate to break it to you -there is no such thing as a "right" to collective bargaining! But my, what another FINE example of what kind of education we can expect in our public schools! ROFL

Personally I think collective bargaining for government employees on ALL levels of government should be banned! Nobody is holding a gun to these people's heads telling they must take a job in government rather than the private sector. They don't like the pay at that job -do what everyone else does when faced with that situation! Government employees should NEVER be in a position to even threaten to shut down any part of government unless they get what they want -much less actually do it and still keep their jobs. Striking government employees should be fired just like Reagan fired air traffic controllers for their illegal strike. It isn't THEIR government to shut down and hold 350 million people over the barrel trying to BLACKMAIL THEM. These teachers have forced the closure of Wisconsin public schools for three days now -and they had NO RIGHT to do it. Government employees are not allowed to legally strike FOR A REASON -which is why teachers had to call in "sick" to do it. I want them ALL DOCKED for the ILLEGAL shutdown of public schools and their illegal leave of absence -and if it continues, they deserve to be fired for it. And how DARE they take kids to demonstrate there as if they OWN those kids as their little goons! It is OUR government, these are OUR schools paid for with OUR taxes and WE pay their salaries and none of them are getting paid for a phony "sick out" so they can go demonstrate what greedy little fuckers they really are. They don't like the proposed terms for continuing to work there -then go get a job in the private sector and good luck with those way out of line benefits then! It is NOT "their" government (or their schools) to shut down -or blackmail the rest of us with threats to do so. They don't own it -its OURS. THIS is why it should be illegal for government employees to unionize because they exist to try and blackmail us into footing the bill for salaries and/or benefits that are way out of line with comparable jobs in the private sector -and blackmail is exactly what these unionized government employees are trying to do now. These teachers don't give a flying fuck about the KIDS -everything they do and everything their union does is for the benefit of teachers only and they will ALWAYS continue doing so even when it is at the expense of what is in the kids' best interests. And THIS is just more proof of it.

The salaries of many government employees on both the state and federal level are incredibly OUT OF LINE with the private sector and the benefits of groups like public school teachers are OUTRAGEOUSLY way out of line with the private sector as well. Wisconsin public school teacher benefits are FOUR TIMES HIGHER than the average taxpayer footing the bill for them earns. Taxpayers should NOT have to pay government employees better than they get themselves in the private sector! Let's not pretend here -government employees are NOT the "best and brightest" among us. Typically they are at the other end. (Do you really think that inefficient, slow moving individual sitting behind the desk at the license bureau got that job because they are soooo much smarter than you?) And that includes a whole lot of public school teachers - and THEY know it - which is why they so vigorously resist any effort to hold them accountable for the SHITTY JOB they do politically indoctrinating our kids -oops -"teaching" our kids. After all -they were able to so effectively teach about our own nation and its history that Ravi was left believing our Constitution somehow magically and without even saying so -guarantees a "right" to collective bargaining!! ROFLMAO! Oh sorry Ravi, that one still has me both laughing -and angry. A document written to SPECIFICALLY protect the rights of the INDIVIDUAL -and you emerged from public school believing it is a document that somehow provided for "group" rights after all. Unbelievable. (If all individuals have identical rights, then there is no need for "group" rights because every member of that group already has the same rights as the rest of us. Pretending there is even such a thing as "group rights" is just an attempt to get MORE than everyone else has and at the expense of everyone else. That is no American value -so I would never expect to find that "right" or anything remotely like that anywhere in our Constitution. And apparently this comes as a real surprise to you -but it isn't.)

The idea that getting hired by government gives them the right to hose taxpayers for outrageously out of line salaries and/or benefits is ridiculous. Politicians are NOT contract negotiators and expecting them to do a good job of that when most leave office a few years later anyway is ridiculous -which is why government employees should NOT be able to use professional union thugs to bargain for them. NEVER is the concern about what is best for EVERYONE and when it comes to what is paid for by taxpayers, it should be. The sole concern of union negotiators is about their group only -while fucking over everyone else as much as possible and pride themselves on how much they fuck over everyone else. Watching these greedy assholes demonstrating and now Obama sending in his campaign apparatus organizations to help make things even worse is stomach turning -but is proof why all unions for government employees should be dissolved and banned for good. And any government employee who objects to that should go get a job in the private sector and good luck with pulling this kind of stunt there!

Obama and the national DNC, both of which have sent operatives and related organizations to Wisconsin to flame the fires and make things worse -have NO business interfering in Wisconsin's government affairs! The Democrats who are hiding out in order to prevent a vote are violating their oath of office in a flagrantly ANTI-DEMOCRATIC stunt. Let's you know what they REALLY believe in -and they do NOT believe in our system of government but one in which an "elite" get to blackmail and impose their will on the majority! Wisconsin voters WANT this law pass and elected the people who ran on the promise of doing this. So by refusing to show up to prevent the up or down vote, these asshole Democrats believe THEY have the greater right to deny the people of Wisconsin from getting what they voted for in November and to silence their voices and illegally impose the will of the minority and BLACKMAIL us and force us to bend to THEIR will instead. This WILL be remembered in 2012! These protesting morons are the very same poor quality citizen ILK we saw demonstrating in Greece and elsewhere -acting as if they just throw a big enough temper tantrum and try to blackmail the rest of us that they can just FORCE their will on the majority. The voters turned over control of Wisconsin state government to Republicans who RAN ON THE PROMISE of doing exactly what they are doing now -getting control of the state government's out of control spending without raising taxes. And it is Democrats both on the state and national level now trying to prevent the people of Wisconsin from enacting the very laws THEY want! I don't see this as being a winning strategy come 2012 since the majority of the people everywhere -are not with the blackmailing, temper tantrum throwing, greedy assholes here.

I am so sick of hearing these greedy whiny ass HOGS insist it will be kids who suffer unless teachers are allowed to continue raping taxpayers for a level of benefits that is 4 times higher than the average person gets in the private sector or will ever get in their lifetime to go along with teachers being able to duck being held accountable when they do a crappy job to go along with the job security that doesn't exist in the private sector. BULLSHIT. I'm sorry but exactly HOW will kids suffer unless teachers don't receive outrageously high benefits at taxpayer expense in a country where we already spend more per child in the school than anywhere else in the entire world (most to pay for the out of line pay and benefits of public school teachers in the first place) with little to show for it since US kids CONTINUE to fall behind more and more other nations every year -all of which spend a fraction of what we do? If they feel they just can't teach even at the shitty level they already are today unless taxpayers are on the hook for benefits that are 4 times greater than those who are footing the bill giving them a combined salary/benefit schedule that more than twice the average in the private sector -then they are in the wrong profession and need to find a job in the private sector and live in the real world. If I hear anyone insist public school teachers are underpaid one more time I will throw my own temper tantrum. They are THE single most OVERPAID and UNDER-PERFORMING group of government employees anywhere -and that says a lot considering I'm comparing them to even those at the license bureau and they still come up short! The adage "those who can do, and those who can't TEACH -is true FOR A REASON. Benefits, shortened work year of 9 months and salary and benefits combined means the average Wisconsin public school teacher is making more than double the average salary/benefit in this country. Yet teachers STILL whine and like to hold themselves out as "victims" insisting they are underpaid. Total bullshit -government employees USED to make slightly less than what they would have earned for the same job in the private sector -but now earn FAR MORE than the comparable job in the private sector and it has to stop. Getting hired by government has turned into just another ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM we can't afford. In spite of these greedy asses and their enablers out demonstrating like this -the people of Wisconsin and the people of the nation are NOT on their side and are utterly REPULSED by this behavior. As we ALL should be and the majority will also remember who was behind it and who supported it come November 2012.

 

[JBeukema]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Obviously this is a document you have never read -because there is NO SUCH RIGHT in there! .

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the People.

 

[boedicca]

The rights of the people are broad rights, not special interest rights.

Public Employee Unions are special interest groups, not The People.

 

[JBeukema]

The rights of the people are broad rights, not special interest rights.

Public Employee Unions are special interest groups, not The People.

So some people don't have the rights of the People?

Some animals are more equal than others, eh?

 

[boedicca]

The rights of the people are broad rights, not special interest rights.

Public Employee Unions are special interest groups, not The People.

So some people don't have the rights of the People?

Some animals are more equal than others, eh?

What Public Employees Unions are trying to assert is that they have more rights than the public who pays their salaries, bub.