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Refusing service doesn't impose a fucking thing on anyone. It's a fundamental human liberty. Everyone should have the right to say "no".He runs a public accommodation. By refusing service, he is imposing his religious views.
Exactly. And that's just as wrong. It's a gross misinterpretation of freedom of religion. Arguably, it's the opposite.What you guys don't seem to get is that Public Accommodation laws also protect the religious, which is why I can't refuse service to Mormons and heap abuse on them about how Joseph Smith was a child molester.
As has been argued, it’s not about hate the man didn’t tell the gay couple or the trans person “ewe no way! I’m sorry, but your lifestyle is disgusting and you are a bad person for doing it”. That would be an example of hate. Rather, he said “unfortunately, my religious beliefs do not allow me to use my labor to assist in the the celebration of a sin, however, I’m happy to sell you a cake that has already been prepared”.No, there is more than one argument here. I've stayed away from this thread but the point I brought up many times earlier has never been addressed.
Why the hate out of a guy who says he is a Christian?
Customer: I'd like a pink and blue cake to celebrate my transitioning.
Baker: I can have that Thursday.
Customer: I'm here for my cake.
Baker: Here you go. By the way, I see you are local? Do you have a local church? If not, I would like to invite you to mine.
Has nothing to do with laws.
As has been argued, it’s not about hate the man didn’t tell the gay couple or the trans person “ewe no way! I’m sorry, but your lifestyle is disgusting and you are a bad person for doing it”. That would be an example of hate. Rather, he said “unfortunately, my religious beliefs do not allow me to use my labor to assist in the the celebration of a sin, however, I’m happy to sell you a cake that has already been prepared”.
See? No hate, he’s willing to do business with that person, just not anything that would require him to specifically labor for a cause that he feels would be him participating in the sin.
Refusing service doesn't impose a fucking thing on anyone. It's a fundamental human liberty. Everyone should have the right to say "no".
Exactly. And that's just as wrong. It's a gross misinterpretation of freedom of religion. Arguably, it's the opposite.
Nope. I reject your premise that the government is "part-owner" of every business. Try again.The time to say no is before you open a business.
Fuck "equity".Well, you can make that argument, but you'd be wrong. Here's the thing, if you are white, male, cis-gendered, straight and mainstream Christian, you don't need to protection of law. You are already privileged. The purpose of Public Accommodation laws is to protect those who aren't privileged.
As has been argued, it’s not about hate the man didn’t tell the gay couple or the trans person “ewe no way! I’m sorry, but your lifestyle is disgusting and you are a bad person for doing it”. That would be an example of hate. Rather, he said “unfortunately, my religious beliefs do not allow me to use my labor to assist in the the celebration of a sin, however, I’m happy to sell you a cake that has already been prepared”.
See? No hate, he’s willing to do business with that person, just not anything that would require him to specifically labor for a cause that he feels would be him participating in the sin.
And again, they cannot make laws that force a person to give up their cotus rights.He runs a public accommodation. By refusing service, he is imposing his religious views.
What you guys don't seem to get is that Public Accommodation laws also protect the religious, which is why I can't refuse service to Mormons and heap abuse on them about how Joseph Smith was a child molester.
If he had a sincerely held religious belief, the yes. The part that the left can’t seem to get past is that it all must be done because of hate. Again, I ask you to show examples of hate.They can buy a cake that has already been prepared in a grocery store.
So if I walk into a baker with my Chinese girlfriend and we order a cake for our wedding, and the baker says, "I'm sorry, but I think the mixing of races is a sin and my religious beliefs don't allow it", would that be cool by you?
They can buy a cake that has already been prepared in a grocery store.
No. I reject your presumption that the government is "part-owner" of every business. Try again.
Fuck "equity".
What you're talking about is the opposite of equal rights. It's special rights for special people, favors for those the government favors. It's the opposite of everything liberals pretend to value. Or, well, they used to pretend to value equal rights. Maybe that's not a thing these days.
Yeah, and Phillips hasn’t shown any signs of hate.I just saw the commercial on television "Jesus loved the people we hate".
Why does the sincerity of a belief matter? Who's to decide how "sincere" someone is?If he had a sincerely held religious belief, the yes.
If he had a sincerely held religious belief, the yes. The part that the left can’t seem to get past is that it all must be done because of hate. Again, I ask you to show examples of hate.
Yep. That's what your worldview comes down to. Angry mobs. No thanks.Good idea. The government should butt out.
SO when an angry mob of gays storms Philips cake shop and burns it to the ground, the government should totally stay out of that. Because, hey, not their problem.
My bad.... mobs AND a protection racket. Covering all the bases!Point is, his business relies on government to provide police protection, fire protection, roads, utilities, safety inspections, etc. Ooooh, evil government, except when it is providing services to you, in which case it's fine.
And he pays taxes for all those services. If you are unhappy that a business may receive certain tax breaks, then take it up with your state and local city officials and tell them you want to remove tax breaks for any business that exercises their religious beliefs.Good idea. The government should butt out.
SO when an angry mob of gays storms Philips cake shop and burns it to the ground, the government should totally stay out of that. Because, hey, not their problem.
Point is, his business relies on government to provide police protection, fire protection, roads, utilities, safety inspections, etc. Ooooh, evil government, except when it is providing services to you, in which case it's fine.
In short, "I've got mine, fuck you".
Is it documented in that religions books and teachings? Or is it something that they just made up? If it’s a teaching that is documented as a part of the religion, then that’s what I consider a “sincerely held religious belief”Why does the sincerity of a belief matter? Who's to decide how "sincere" someone is?
Along with the gay couple.And he pays taxes for all those services
Really? So if it's not documented in a book as part of a religion, you have no right to your beliefs?Is it documented in that religions books and teachings? Or is it something that they just made up? If it’s a teaching that is documented as a part of the religion, then that’s what I consider a “sincerely held religious belief”
And again, he can’t be forced to give up his cotus rights, so, if in your community, you have businesses that practice religion, you are free to petition your state and local government to remove any tax breaks and increase their tax rates, though you’d have to get passed the cotus freedom of religion practices.Along with the gay couple.
They too, pay taxes for the police that protect the bakery, the food inspector, the nearby curbing & parking (and enforcement of parking). In short, if the baker wishes to pay for all of those services individually, by himself.....well, then maybe he has a leg to stand on, in my opinion.
But, of course, he can't. His contributed taxes pay only a small share of all those services....hence, he relies upon his community to chip-in too, to help defray the cost of the three shifts of cops who are on call if he has a problem. And, as long as he must rely upon his community of fellow taxpayers......then he must be willing to serve all of his fellow taxpayers.
