Corporate welfare in action ....

[Ray From Cleveland]

"
NORTH RANDALL, Ohio - Amazon will bring more than 2,000 jobs to the tiny Cuyahoga County village of North Randall, where a massive fulfillment center is slated to rise from the demolition dust of Randall Park Mall.

The e-commerce giant finalized a lease deal Thursday on a planned 855,000-square-foot building, which could open during the second half of next year on a 69-acre site at Warrensville Center and Emery roads. News of the potential deal broke in July, after the project cropped up on a public meeting agenda. But North Randall was vying against other, unidentified sites.

The North Randall Village Council and the Warrensville Heights Board of Education have approved 15 years of 75 percent property-tax abatement for the Amazon facility. School board records show the village will pass along 33 percent of its income-tax collections from workers at the fulfillment center to the district."

Amazon commits to North Randall fulfillment center, with 2,000-plus jobs on former mall site

"Full-time employees at Amazon receive highly-competitive pay, health insurance, disability insurance, retirement savings plans and company stock starting on day one. The company offers up to 20 weeks of paid leave and innovative benefits such as Leave Share and Ramp Back, which give new parents flexibility with their growing families. Amazon also offers hourly employees its Career Choice program which helps train employees for in-demand jobs at Amazon and other companies so they can prepare for the future and take full advantage of the nation's innovation economy. The program pre-pays 95% of tuition for courses in in-demand, high-wage fields, regardless of whether the skills are relevant to a future career at Amazon. Over 10,000 employees have participated in Career Choice and more are signing up every day."

An Amazon Fulfillment Center Officially Comes to Former Randall Park Mall Site, Needs Workers

Nah, we don't want it. That's the village picking winners......namely the citizens of their village and surrounding areas where those employees will be hired from.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

Amazon pays relatively the same wage across the country for distribution. You 'should' know this already.

Amazon is getting a discount of how much in dollars?

City taxes are going to be paid by whom? How much in dollars?

When you subtract the negative from the positive you'll find an even larger negative.

Permanent, better paid jobs ($15.00/hr) are good. How many of these jobs fit that category?

You should try clicking the links provided because they have the answers to your questions. But again.......

North Randall gave them a 75% property tax abatement. That means Amazon will still be paying 25% property tax on nearly 70 acres of land. That's on top of the new taxes generated by the employees.

I don't know how it works in other places, but over here, you pay taxes in the city you work in and in the city you live in. You get a city payroll deduction out of your check every week for the city you work in, and you get a quarterly bill from the city you live in.

 

[Brain357]

It shows it doesn't lead to greatness. 10 credit rating downgrades and a slow economy.

Because it doesn't show it leads to greatness, it must be responsible? Where in the world do you get that logic from?

Nobody ever said that tax abatements were an all out problem solver. It would be like me making the claim that if not for tax abatement, the state would be growing even slower. There's no way to possibly prove that claim.

It goes against capitalism and the free market. That is bad for an economy. You can't show it does any good. Why do you support this garbage? I've given you example after example of it doing bad things, yet you insist it is a good thing. You make no sense.

And I gave you examples where it does good. This Amazon thing that's happening here is great for our area. It's going to provide thousands of jobs, bring in tax revenue, stir up business in other places. Nothing negative about it. No new roads needed because the roads were designed for the largest mall in the country years ago. Hell, maybe even our company may get some work out of it. Who knows?

But there is nothing negative about it.

Amazon will be using services they are not paying for. That is welfare. And no you haven't given any real examples. The numbers never work out. You live in fantasy land. A good deal would be amazon moves in, creates jobs, and pays taxes for services.

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

 

[Brain357]

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

Amazon pays relatively the same wage across the country for distribution. You 'should' know this already.

Amazon is getting a discount of how much in dollars?

City taxes are going to be paid by whom? How much in dollars?

When you subtract the negative from the positive you'll find an even larger negative.

Permanent, better paid jobs ($15.00/hr) are good. How many of these jobs fit that category?

You should try clicking the links provided because they have the answers to your questions. But again.......

North Randall gave them a 75% property tax abatement. That means Amazon will still be paying 25% property tax on nearly 70 acres of land. That's on top of the new taxes generated by the employees.

I don't know how it works in other places, but over here, you pay taxes in the city you work in and in the city you live in. You get a city payroll deduction out of your check every week for the city you work in, and you get a quarterly bill from the city you live in.

I noticed a link says tiny North Randall. The population appears to be about 1,000. So just how many jobs do you think the North Randall population will be getting? Unless they have a very high unemployment rate not very many at all. Seems North Randall tax payers are getting jobs for the surrounding areas.... what a deal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because it doesn't show it leads to greatness, it must be responsible? Where in the world do you get that logic from?

Nobody ever said that tax abatements were an all out problem solver. It would be like me making the claim that if not for tax abatement, the state would be growing even slower. There's no way to possibly prove that claim.

It goes against capitalism and the free market. That is bad for an economy. You can't show it does any good. Why do you support this garbage? I've given you example after example of it doing bad things, yet you insist it is a good thing. You make no sense.

And I gave you examples where it does good. This Amazon thing that's happening here is great for our area. It's going to provide thousands of jobs, bring in tax revenue, stir up business in other places. Nothing negative about it. No new roads needed because the roads were designed for the largest mall in the country years ago. Hell, maybe even our company may get some work out of it. Who knows?

But there is nothing negative about it.

Amazon will be using services they are not paying for. That is welfare. And no you haven't given any real examples. The numbers never work out. You live in fantasy land. A good deal would be amazon moves in, creates jobs, and pays taxes for services.

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

Amazon pays relatively the same wage across the country for distribution. You 'should' know this already.

Amazon is getting a discount of how much in dollars?

City taxes are going to be paid by whom? How much in dollars?

When you subtract the negative from the positive you'll find an even larger negative.

Permanent, better paid jobs ($15.00/hr) are good. How many of these jobs fit that category?

You should try clicking the links provided because they have the answers to your questions. But again.......

North Randall gave them a 75% property tax abatement. That means Amazon will still be paying 25% property tax on nearly 70 acres of land. That's on top of the new taxes generated by the employees.

I don't know how it works in other places, but over here, you pay taxes in the city you work in and in the city you live in. You get a city payroll deduction out of your check every week for the city you work in, and you get a quarterly bill from the city you live in.

I noticed a link says tiny North Randall. The population appears to be about 1,000. So just how many jobs do you think the North Randall population will be getting? Unless they have a very high unemployment rate not very many at all. Seems North Randall tax payers are getting jobs for the surrounding areas.... what a deal.

It is a deal because I live one suburb away, and if I got a job at Amazon, I would be generating new tax revenue for the village.

 

[bripat9643]

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

 

[Brain357]

It goes against capitalism and the free market. That is bad for an economy. You can't show it does any good. Why do you support this garbage? I've given you example after example of it doing bad things, yet you insist it is a good thing. You make no sense.

And I gave you examples where it does good. This Amazon thing that's happening here is great for our area. It's going to provide thousands of jobs, bring in tax revenue, stir up business in other places. Nothing negative about it. No new roads needed because the roads were designed for the largest mall in the country years ago. Hell, maybe even our company may get some work out of it. Who knows?

But there is nothing negative about it.

Amazon will be using services they are not paying for. That is welfare. And no you haven't given any real examples. The numbers never work out. You live in fantasy land. A good deal would be amazon moves in, creates jobs, and pays taxes for services.

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

 

[Brain357]

Good paying jobs? You're kidding, right?

It's already been posted on this board.

A supervisor at Amazon makes $15.65/hr which is crap pay. You have to stand for 8 hours in heat up to 90 degrees because Amazon doesn't believe in air conditioning. To qualify you need a bachelor's degree. Would anyone in their right mind pay $50K for an education for that job?

The American worker is woefully underpaid.

Amazon doesn't need subsidies. Period.

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

Amazon pays relatively the same wage across the country for distribution. You 'should' know this already.

Amazon is getting a discount of how much in dollars?

City taxes are going to be paid by whom? How much in dollars?

When you subtract the negative from the positive you'll find an even larger negative.

Permanent, better paid jobs ($15.00/hr) are good. How many of these jobs fit that category?

You should try clicking the links provided because they have the answers to your questions. But again.......

North Randall gave them a 75% property tax abatement. That means Amazon will still be paying 25% property tax on nearly 70 acres of land. That's on top of the new taxes generated by the employees.

I don't know how it works in other places, but over here, you pay taxes in the city you work in and in the city you live in. You get a city payroll deduction out of your check every week for the city you work in, and you get a quarterly bill from the city you live in.

I noticed a link says tiny North Randall. The population appears to be about 1,000. So just how many jobs do you think the North Randall population will be getting? Unless they have a very high unemployment rate not very many at all. Seems North Randall tax payers are getting jobs for the surrounding areas.... what a deal.

It is a deal because I live one suburb away, and if I got a job at Amazon, I would be generating new tax revenue for the village.

How would they be getting tax revenue from you? You won't be paying their property taxes.

 

[bripat9643]

What would you call it then when corporations get free money?

Fantasy, unless you have an example.

It's not fantasy, idiot. It happened.

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

Social welfare adds $1.70 to the economy for every $1.00 spent. Corporate welfare adds zero, and in some cases causes a negative.

That's pure bullshit. Welfare doesn't add a dime to "the economy," whatever that is supposed to mean.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Really? I didn't see anybody post an article on the exact wages Amazon plans on paying. Did you? In spite of the many written articles on this new outlet of theirs, they all seem to contradict what you're claiming here. But they are wrong and you are right. So typically liberal of you.

If the village offered Amazon this deal, it's because the village and city are making out. Amazon is getting a 75% abatement on land taxes which means they are going to be paying 25% tax on nearly 70 acres of city land. And as my one article pointed out, that's on top of the employee city taxes they will be paying.

We'll be glad to take this new center to help our economy any day of the week. And if you bothered to read the article (which I'm sure you didn't) they are also looking at another closed down mall (about 15 miles from North Randall) for another new project. We'll take all the new jobs we can get.

Amazon pays relatively the same wage across the country for distribution. You 'should' know this already.

Amazon is getting a discount of how much in dollars?

City taxes are going to be paid by whom? How much in dollars?

When you subtract the negative from the positive you'll find an even larger negative.

Permanent, better paid jobs ($15.00/hr) are good. How many of these jobs fit that category?

You should try clicking the links provided because they have the answers to your questions. But again.......

North Randall gave them a 75% property tax abatement. That means Amazon will still be paying 25% property tax on nearly 70 acres of land. That's on top of the new taxes generated by the employees.

I don't know how it works in other places, but over here, you pay taxes in the city you work in and in the city you live in. You get a city payroll deduction out of your check every week for the city you work in, and you get a quarterly bill from the city you live in.

I noticed a link says tiny North Randall. The population appears to be about 1,000. So just how many jobs do you think the North Randall population will be getting? Unless they have a very high unemployment rate not very many at all. Seems North Randall tax payers are getting jobs for the surrounding areas.... what a deal.

It is a deal because I live one suburb away, and if I got a job at Amazon, I would be generating new tax revenue for the village.

How would they be getting tax revenue from you? You won't be paying their property taxes.

Over here, you get a payroll tax deduction for the city you work in.

 

[bripat9643]

LOL so instead of going half tard you went full tard. And where did the money to buy the bonds come from? lmao

Investors bozo, bonds are sold by Municipalities, Special Districts, States, the Feds. If Bush&Co. sold war bonds for the fiasco in Iraq, we might have been able to fulfill some of the domestic needs which have been allowed to rust.

Bonds are paid off by the taxpayers, moron.

Correct, to some degree. Revenue from fees (bridge tolls for example) pay the interest on the bonds and when sufficient reduce the obligation. The interest on some bonds are tax free.

School bonds and stadium bonds are paid off by the taxpayer.

Who pays for private schools if not taxpayers?

The parents of the children who attend them pay for them. How do you figure the taxpayers pay for them?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And I gave you examples where it does good. This Amazon thing that's happening here is great for our area. It's going to provide thousands of jobs, bring in tax revenue, stir up business in other places. Nothing negative about it. No new roads needed because the roads were designed for the largest mall in the country years ago. Hell, maybe even our company may get some work out of it. Who knows?

But there is nothing negative about it.

Amazon will be using services they are not paying for. That is welfare. And no you haven't given any real examples. The numbers never work out. You live in fantasy land. A good deal would be amazon moves in, creates jobs, and pays taxes for services.

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

 

[Brain357]

Amazon pays relatively the same wage across the country for distribution. You 'should' know this already.

Amazon is getting a discount of how much in dollars?

City taxes are going to be paid by whom? How much in dollars?

When you subtract the negative from the positive you'll find an even larger negative.

Permanent, better paid jobs ($15.00/hr) are good. How many of these jobs fit that category?

You should try clicking the links provided because they have the answers to your questions. But again.......

North Randall gave them a 75% property tax abatement. That means Amazon will still be paying 25% property tax on nearly 70 acres of land. That's on top of the new taxes generated by the employees.

I don't know how it works in other places, but over here, you pay taxes in the city you work in and in the city you live in. You get a city payroll deduction out of your check every week for the city you work in, and you get a quarterly bill from the city you live in.

I noticed a link says tiny North Randall. The population appears to be about 1,000. So just how many jobs do you think the North Randall population will be getting? Unless they have a very high unemployment rate not very many at all. Seems North Randall tax payers are getting jobs for the surrounding areas.... what a deal.

It is a deal because I live one suburb away, and if I got a job at Amazon, I would be generating new tax revenue for the village.

How would they be getting tax revenue from you? You won't be paying their property taxes.

Over here, you get a payroll tax deduction for the city you work in.

Ok so how much would that be for somebody making say $30k a year? Amazon doesn't pay all that much. Interesting that Amazon gets a break and you pay. I can see why you would be happy about that.

 

[Brain357]

Amazon will be using services they are not paying for. That is welfare. And no you haven't given any real examples. The numbers never work out. You live in fantasy land. A good deal would be amazon moves in, creates jobs, and pays taxes for services.

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

It is really running wild. There was a time when republicans understood this was government intervention in the economy and avoided it.

Ok if the new company isn't generating a need, then other companies aren't generating a need. Same deal for everybody then?

 

[bripat9643]

Amazon will be using services they are not paying for. That is welfare. And no you haven't given any real examples. The numbers never work out. You live in fantasy land. A good deal would be amazon moves in, creates jobs, and pays taxes for services.

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

I just showed you it would.

I'm on the same side as you on most issues, but you're wrong on this one. These tax abatement schemes are corporate welfare. Even if one state or city benefits from an individual case, when they all do it they are just playing beggar thy neighbor and they all get screwed. The taxpayers end up subsidizing certain favored corporations and screwing all the other businesses in the city.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

And you don't think the city or state had that figured out when they made the offer? What are those additional costs? A new stoplight or two, perhaps an additional lane to a main road?

Thousands of additional cars that inflict wear and tear on the roads, plus the additional personnel needed to police them.

No, cars do not do all that much damage to the roads. Up here, it's mostly the snow and ice. The new Amazon will be built on Route 8 which already has trucks on it. Plus when the North Randall Mall was built, they built the roads wide enough to handle heavy traffic. After all, during it's day, North Randall Mall was the largest mall in the country, and people from all over the country to shop there.

 

[bripat9643]

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

It is really running wild. There was a time when republicans understood this was government intervention in the economy and avoided it.

Ok if the new company isn't generating a need, then other companies aren't generating a need. Same deal for everybody then?

I agree with you 100%. Libertarians still understand this. This is government corruption in its purest form.

 

[Brain357]

Corporate welfare’s history of failure (column)

In April, the York-based medical device company Unilife filed for bankruptcy after laying off more than a third of its workforce. What makes this unfortunate circumstance different from dozens of other business challenges in our ever-changing economy? Unilife had a helping hand from you, the taxpayer.

State government handed the company more than $6.4 million in grants and loans, betting it would thrive. Sadly, they bet wrong.

A similar story played out for another well-known York employer, Harley-Davidson. The company recently announced it will lay off 118 Pennsylvania employees by the end of July. That’s after the motorcycle maker received more than $5 million in state grants, according to public data.

These anecdotes raise an important question: Do government subsidies to select businesses help the economy?

The evidence says no. Since 2007, Pennsylvania has led the nation in such corporate welfare spending at a staggering $6 billion, outspending its nearest competitor by nearly $2 billion. Yet, these massive handouts to special interests have failed to boost economic growth.

From 2005-2015, the commonwealth underperformed in key economic indicators, ranking 35th in job growth, 31st in personal income growth, and 38th in population growth. In fact, the ten states spending the most on corporate welfare from 2007-2015 — Pennsylvania first among them — saw less job growth than the ten lowest spenders.

Here’s why. Normally, businesses make decisions based on what consumers want. But when government subsidies are on the table, businesses start competing for politicians’ or government bureaucrats’ favor.

Success is determined by who lobbies better, not by who makes the best product at an affordable price. The result? A few businesses “win” — though often temporarily — at their competitors’ expense, and taxpayers suffer in the long run.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How is a company that's going to add millions of dollars to a cities budge not paying for services? And what services would those be anyway?

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

I just showed you I would.

I'm on the same side as you on most issues, but you're wrong on this one. These tax abatement schemes are corporate welfare. Even if one state or city benefits from an individual case, when they all do it they are just playing beggar thy neighbor and they all get screwed. The taxpayers end up subsidizing certain favored corporations and screwing all the other businesses in the city.

Not really because the other businesses will not be affected. They will have the same business, pay the same taxes they've always paid, nothing will change for them.

What happens is the city gets a new tax revenue stream. That's good for everybody involved.

 

[bripat9643]

Ok give us all the details of this deal then and we will discuss.

Services would of course be things like municipal services. Do I really need to go into those AGAIN?

Yes, because I don't see any costs to a city when a business like Amazon moves in. They still need to plow the streets, they still need to maintain the streets, perhaps if an employee gets injured, they may need a rescue squad or something like that. But outside of emergency services which the company will seldom use, what costs to a city?

As for the details, they are not available right now. But what I do know is that Amazon will be paying more to the village than a pile of rocks.

Ok so then if there are no services to be paid for give the same deal to all corporations in the city. Wait you already said they can't afford to do that. So then there are obviously services to be paid for.

Ok so you are calling it a big win for the town without any details? You sound like a politician. I suspect by the time the details are released and not so good, things will be too far along...

Do you think this is new or something? CEO's and city leaders have been dealing with this issue for decades.

I never said there are no city services to be paid for, I said that the new company won't be generating a need for them.

I just showed you I would.

I'm on the same side as you on most issues, but you're wrong on this one. These tax abatement schemes are corporate welfare. Even if one state or city benefits from an individual case, when they all do it they are just playing beggar thy neighbor and they all get screwed. The taxpayers end up subsidizing certain favored corporations and screwing all the other businesses in the city.

Not really because the other businesses will not be affected. They will have the same business, pay the same taxes they've always paid, nothing will change for them.

What happens is the city gets a new tax revenue stream. That's good for everybody involved.

The other businesses are paying a higher tax rate because the newcomer is given a special deal. I don't even believe these deals are constitutional. When every city does it, then the net effect is no new tax revenue, because they've all screwed each other. Then the taxpayers end up subsidizing a privileged corporation. That's hardly what conservatives are supposed to stand for.