Critics of Israel: What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?

[Shusha]

Bullshit! The blockade is immoral and illegal!

So you say. But you have not defended your position. We have already established that both occupation and blockade, among other things, are legally and morally acceptable actions when a sovereign nation is defending itself. You agreed with this position.

WHY, then, is it immoral and illegal in this particular case? What criteria differentiates this particular case?

Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005. Israel had no further control over Gaza and its governance. By definition, this is no longer an occupation. Within days, rockets were fired into Israel. Israel is therefore defending itself. The blockade is both legal and moral, as you have already agreed.

Please repair the inconsistencies in your argument.

 

[Billo_Really]

Why do the Palestinians then not get your wrath for deliberately targeting innocent, non-combatant Israelis? And, sorry, when you store armaments and launch attacks from hospitals, you invite backlash.

They cannot target them. They're considered indiscriminate weapons, which makes them war crimes.

BTW, the Missile that hit that hospital in northern Gaza was fired by the Islamic Jihad.

 

[Billo_Really]

So you say. But you have not defended your position. We have already established that both occupation and blockade, among other things, are legally and morally acceptable actions when a sovereign nation is defending itself. You agreed with this position.

WHY, then, is it immoral and illegal in this particular case? What criteria differentiates this particular case?

Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005. Israel had no further control over Gaza and its governance. By definition, this is no longer an occupation. Within days, rockets were fired into Israel. Israel is therefore defending itself. The blockade is both legal and moral, as you have already agreed.

Please repair the inconsistencies in your argument.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Israel did not disengage from Gaza in 2005. It controls 80% of what goes in and out of the area. That satisfies the definition of an occupation. The blockade is illegal and immoral. It collectively punishes all 2.2 million people and that is a crime against humanity.

You need to stop settler violence against Palestinians, which is far more rampant.

 

[Shusha]

... Hospitals are off limits under any condition.

And speaking of hospitals, it looks like the Missile that struck that hospital in Northern Gaza, was fired by the Islamic Jihad and NOT the IDF.

This is incorrect. It seems you stopped reading at Article 18. Read Article 19.

And yes, we know it was Islamic Jihad. Thank you for acknowledging it.

 

[Billo_Really]

Which means that targeting Palestinian weapon storage and from where they launch attacks is also perfectly legal. Did you realize you just destroyed your own rant?

Yes, weapons storage is a legal target. Unless it is a hospital. You cannot target hospitals under any condition.

 

[Billo_Really]

It is not collective punishment unless the civilians are targeted by the siege, which they are not; denying food and water and fuel to Hamas is legal, and the damage to the civilian population is considered collateral damage and is not illegal if it is proportionate to the military advantage gained by the action.

Shutting off electricity, water, fuel and food, punishes all 2.2 million people and that is a crime against humanity, which you are completely void of.

 

[Billo_Really]

War is immoral and illegal. But here we are huh??

Could you again tell the class how it started again..

When Zionists migrated into the area with their racism and violence.

 

[Billo_Really]

Set up HQ and hide ammo there its no longer a hospital

Bullshit and fuck you, you are wrong!

 

[Billo_Really]

Not at all. I am not defending Israel's poor actions.

But you are definitely defending and justifying those of Hamas.

I don't expect many posters here will be reading or responding to you for a while.

I'm not defending Hamad, I'm just saying Israel is the bigger villain.

 

[Shusha]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Israel did not disengage from Gaza in 2005. It controls 80% of what goes in and out of the area. That satisfies the definition of an occupation. The blockade is illegal and immoral. It collectively punishes all 2.2 million people and that is a crime against humanity.

You need to stop settler violence against Palestinians, which is far more rampant.

I believe your definition of occupation is incorrect for a number of reasons. But even so, given that you have already concluded and agreed that both occupation and blockade are legal and moral responses in self-defense and given that rockets were being fired indiscriminately into Israel (a war crime as you correctly point out), there is no basis for the position you seem to hold.

 

[Billo_Really]

And you cannot target innocent civilians under any condition, which means the Palestinians are in the wrong and deserve pushback. When you put munitions in hospitals, they become targets. Why do you have such a hard time seeing that?

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! You cannot target hospitals and you are showing your incredible lack of humanity.

BTW, yes, you are right, Hamas is just as guilty as the IDF.

 

[rylah]

You have deliberately killed more babies than they have.

Do you want an equal amount of Jewish babies killed?

Only Hamas psychopaths use children as war commodity.

 

[Billo_Really]

This is incorrect. It seems you stopped reading at Article 18. Read Article 19.

And yes, we know it was Islamic Jihad. Thank you for acknowledging it.

Hospitals are not of military necessity. The fact that you disagree, shows just how inhumane you are!

Now, wanna talk about settler violence?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Shutting off electricity, water, fuel and food, punishes all 2.2 million people and that is a crime against humanity, which you are completely void of.

The siege is against Hamas, and it is legal for Israel to cut off feed, water and electricity to Hamas. Under international law, the Gaza civilians are collateral damage and unless a way can be found to provide aid to the civilians without giving it to Hamas, measure of whether it is legal is if the military advantage Israel gains is proportional to the amount of collateral damage it causes.

 

[Billo_Really]

I believe your definition of occupation is incorrect for a number of reasons. But even so, given that you have already concluded and agreed that both occupation and blockade are legal and moral responses in self-defense and given that rockets were being fired indiscriminately into Israel (a war crime as you correctly point out), there is no basis for the position you seem to hold.

Fuck you! I have NOT agreed to that! WTF is wrong with you! Do you have ADD? or are you deliberately vapid? Your inhumanity speaks volumes!

For the record, THE GODDAMN BLOCKADE IS ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL! Write that down for future reference, you fucking troll! Stop trying to twist what I say into something more palatable! FUCK!

 

[rylah]

Hamas must be held accountable for civilian deaths. Targets on the Israeli military are perfectly legal.

Hamas is accountable for every death on both sides.

What about using the Shifa hospital as military headquarters, in an underground bunker?

Did you know Gaza's biggest hospital Al Shifa served as Hamas headquarters?

According to a report by Tablet dated 2014, one of Hamas' main command bunkers was located beneath the Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

 

[Shusha]

Hospitals are not of military necessity. The fact that you disagree, shows just how inhumane you are!

Now, wanna talk about settler violence?

Sigh. Let me help:

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​

Article 19 - Wounded and sick IV. Discontinuance of protection of hospitals​

The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.
The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.

 

[Billo_Really]

Do you want an equal amount of Jewish babies killed?

Only Hamas psychopaths use children as war commodity.

No, I do not want Jewish babies killed. I do not want any innocents killed.

BTW, Israel uses more human shields than Hamas does. Do you know what a "johnnie" is?

 

[Billo_Really]

The siege is against Hamas, and it is legal for Israel to cut off feed, water and electricity to Hamas. Under international law, the Gaza civilians are collateral damage and unless a way can be found to provide aid to the civilians without giving it to Hamas, measure of whether it is legal is if the military advantage Israel gains is proportional to the amount of collateral damage it causes.

No it is not! You cannot target civilian infrastructure! Goddammit, fuck you, you inhuman POS!

 

[Billo_Really]

Hamas is accountable for every death on both sides.

What about using the Shifa hospital as military headquarters, in an underground bunker?

Did you know Gaza's biggest hospital Al Shifa served as Hamas headquarters?

According to a report by Tablet dated 2014, one of Hamas' main command bunkers was located beneath the Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

Wrong! That is one of the biggest things I hate about Israeli's, YOU ARE TOO PUSSY TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS! FUCK YOU FOR THAT!