Critics of Israel: What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?

[Billo_Really]

Sigh. Let me help:

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​

Article 19 - Wounded and sick IV. Discontinuance of protection of hospitals​

The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.
The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.

So your Article agrees with me.

 

[rylah]

So you are saying the Palestinians do not have a right to exist?

If by "the Palestinians" you mean Hamas
and all affiliated with the massacre on Shabbat,
then definitely YES, this is incompatible with humanity.

Otherwise, depends on acceptance of the 7 Noahide Laws.

 

[Shusha]

So your Article agrees with me.

Ummm. No.

You cannot target hospitals under any condition.

...Hospitals are off limits under any condition.

The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit ... acts harmful to the enemy.

Hospitals, when used to commit acts harmful to the enemy, are no longer protected. Under those conditions, they are military objectives.

You are just wrong. Move on.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No it is not! You cannot target civilian infrastructure! Goddammit, fuck you, you inhuman POS!

Civilian infrastructure is not being targeted and you know it. Hamas' assets are being targeted and it is producing some collateral damage to civilian infrastructure, which is legal under international law if the military advantage gained is proportional to the collateral damage.

 

[Billo_Really]

If by "the Palestinians" you mean Hamas
and all affiliated with the massacre on Shabbat,
then definitely YES, this is incompatible with humanity.

Otherwise, depends on acceptance of the 7 Noahide Laws.

Judging from the level of destruction and the way Israel is going about it, Israel is committing genocide.

 

[Billo_Really]

Ummm. No.






The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit ... acts harmful to the enemy.

Hospitals, when used to commit acts harmful to the enemy, are no longer protected. Under those conditions, they are military objectives.

You are just wrong. Move on.

Read your second paragraph. It is exactly what I have been saying!

 

[Billo_Really]

Civilian infrastructure is not being targeted and you know it. Hamas' assets are being targeted and it is producing some collateral damage to civilian infrastructure, which is legal under international law if the military advantage gained is proportional to the collateral damage.

Shutting off electricity to 2.2 million people, is targeting civilian infrastructure.

 

[Shusha]

Fuck you! I have NOT agreed to that! WTF is wrong with you! Do you have ADD? or are you deliberately vapid? Your inhumanity speaks volumes!

For the record, THE GODDAMN BLOCKADE IS ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL! Write that down for future reference, you fucking troll! Stop trying to twist what I say into something more palatable! FUCK!

Yes, you keep saying that the blockade is illegal and immoral, but keep failing to say WHY this is so. You keep failing to provide an objective argument for your position.

In post #761 you said, when directly asked about specific actions of self-defense (including occupation and blockade):

Yes, absolutely, all of the above! Israel would have every legal right in the world to go in and fuck up their shit! And I would stand behind Israel 100% at that point. Let's make no mistake about it, the majority of Hamas militia is a committing terrorist acts, which is unacceptable.

See, the thing I don't get about arguing with you is that we AGREE on nearly everything, when discussing objective legal principles of warfare. But you can't seem to apply those principles to Israel.

You agree that nations can apply specific acts as self-defense against things like indiscriminate rocket fire (war crime). But when Israel does so, you label it "illegal and immoral" and give no explanation for WHY Israel is the exception to the principle you have already agreed to.

You agree that nations, including Israel, have no obligation to provide electricity, water, and other goods to foreign nationals. And yet when Israel fails to provide electricity, water, and other goods, you claim it is "collective punishment" and give no explanation for WHY Israel is the exception to the principle.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yes, you keep saying that the blockade is illegal and immoral, but keep failing to say WHY this is so. You keep failing to provide an objective argument for your position.

In post #761 you said, when directly asked about specific actions of self-defense (including occupation and blockade):


See, the thing I don't get about arguing with you is that we AGREE on nearly everything, when discussing objective legal principles of warfare. But you can't seem to apply those principles to Israel.

You agree that nations can apply specific acts as self-defense against things like indiscriminate rocket fire (war crime). But when Israel does so, you label it "illegal and immoral" and give no explanation for WHY Israel is the exception to the principle you have already agreed to.

You agree that nations, including Israel, have no obligation to provide electricity, water, and other goods to foreign nationals. And yet when Israel fails to provide electricity, water, and other goods, you claim it is "collective punishment" and give no explanation for WHY Israel is the exception to the principle.

It is collective punishment! Do you know what these words mean? Collective punishment is a crime against humanity! Do you know what humanity is?

You are committing genocide.

 

[Shusha]

Read your second paragraph. It is exactly what I have been saying!

Great. We agree then. Under certain conditions, hospitals can be military objectives. Cool.

 

[Shusha]

It is collective punishment! Do you know what these words mean? ...

Defend your position.

What differentiates a legal blockade in self-defense against war crimes from collective punishment? What criteria are you using for these definitions, other than, well, but it's Israel?

 

[Billo_Really]

Great. We agree then. Under certain conditions, hospitals can be military objectives. Cool.

No we don't! That the fact that you want to bomb a hospital speaks volumes on your lack of humanity.

 

[Billo_Really]

Defend your position.

What differentiates a legal blockade in self-defense against war crimes from collective punishment? What criteria are you using for these definitions, other than, well, but it's Israel?

It is not a legal blockade! GODDAMMIT, FUCK YOU! IT IS NOT A LEGAL BLOCKADE, YOU FUCKING INHUMAN BITCH!

 

[hadit]

They cannot target them. They're considered indiscriminate weapons, which makes them war crimes.

BTW, the Missile that hit that hospital in northern Gaza was fired by the Islamic Jihad.

I give you a lot of credit for acknowledging that.

 

[hadit]

Yes, weapons storage is a legal target. Unless it is a hospital. You cannot target hospitals under any condition.

I would really like to see your source for that.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I would really like to see your source for that.

There is no such source.

The laws of war prohibit direct attacks on civilian objects, like schools. They also prohibit direct attacks against hospitals and medical staff, which are specially protected under IHL. That said, a hospital or school may become a legitimate military target if it contributes to specific military operations of the enemy and if its destruction offers a definite military advantage for the attacking side.

If there is any doubt, they cannot be attacked. Hospitals only lose their protection in certain circumstances - for example if a hospital is being used as a base from which to launch an attack, as a weapons depot, or to hide healthy soldiers/fighters. And there are certain conditions too.

Before a party to a conflict can respond to such acts by attacking, it has to give a warning, with a time limit, and the other party has to have ignored that warning. Some States have endorsed the Safe Schools Declaration and Guidelines, which aim to reduce the military use of schools.

Frequently asked questions on the rules of war

Even wars have rules. What does that mean?

www.icrc.org

 

[hadit]

There is no such source.

The laws of war prohibit direct attacks on civilian objects, like schools. They also prohibit direct attacks against hospitals and medical staff, which are specially protected under IHL. That said, a hospital or school may become a legitimate military target if it contributes to specific military operations of the enemy and if its destruction offers a definite military advantage for the attacking side.

If there is any doubt, they cannot be attacked. Hospitals only lose their protection in certain circumstances - for example if a hospital is being used as a base from which to launch an attack, as a weapons depot, or to hide healthy soldiers/fighters. And there are certain conditions too.

Before a party to a conflict can respond to such acts by attacking, it has to give a warning, with a time limit, and the other party has to have ignored that warning. Some States have endorsed the Safe Schools Declaration and Guidelines, which aim to reduce the military use of schools.

Frequently asked questions on the rules of war

Even wars have rules. What does that mean?

www.icrc.org

That's where I have been coming from, and Israel does give warning before attacking civilian areas that have been used to store munitions and launch attacks.

 

[rylah]

No, I do not want Jewish babies killed. I do not want any innocents killed.

BTW, Israel uses more human shields than Hamas does. Do you know what a "johnnie" is?

Neither do I.

Only the Hamas psychopaths confuse the size of a population,
with the use of human shields, and all civilians as a war commodity.

 

[rylah]

Judging from the level of destruction and the way Israel is going about it, Israel is committing genocide.

No, the level of destruction, on both sides, is nothing compared,
to what Hamas did, and seeks to do, if allowed to further exist,
among humans and even animals.

 

[expat500]

No, the level of destruction, on both sides, is nothing compared,
to what Hamas did, and seeks to do, if allowed to further exist,
among humans and even animals.

When the IDF does its sweep through Gaza, how will they know who are Hamas?

And then there are the tunnels.