Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[AVG-JOE]

We're not like the monkeys, Joe, that's the whole point here. We possess an attribute the monkeys never will have, the ability to make a spiritual connection to something greater than self. It's not the product of evolution, nothing else in nature does it.

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.​

The difference between Monkeys and the rest of the animals, as Boss and others have pointed out, is Sentience. Sentience is living with the certain knowledge that life ends, and the ability to imagine possibilities for an extension.

Is there ANY religion that's not focused at least in part on what happens at death?



The need for (insert your preferred Deity here - a.k.a. 'God') is directly attributable to the knowledge of death, and the fear that knowledge generates because of the inevitable question, "What's next?!?"


To console the living by speaking of the recently departed with over-confident statements like "She's in a better place" is arrogance defined, considering our actual knowledge of the subject.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

All you have established is that spirituality exists. Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more than that. Humans are fallible and so is their spirituality. Under your "logic" that makes your God fallible too since his existence depends entirely upon imperfect humans ability to conceive of his existence. Since you raised the specter of spirituality being "proof" for the existence of other worldly entities you are claiming that demons exist too. Is that where you really want to go with this argument?

I have established that spirituality has always existed in humans, which means 'God' exists. You can't have spirituality and not be spiritual. I never said I could prove WHOSE god(s) exist.

Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more? Such as? I mean, I proved that man has always worshiped something, and Darwin said if a species has inherent traits they must be fundamental. Mankind has always had this fundamental behavior, therefore, there must be a purpose. Something has to first exist, in order to have purpose. If there were no God, human spirituality would have vanished in our species long ago.

Humans ARE fallible, and so is their spirituality. You can say that Religion is man's fallible way of understanding their spiritual maker. I don't understand how man's fallibility means God must also be fallible. I also don't understand why God has to be infallible to exist. Nor does existence demand or require belief. Black holes existed in the universe long before we believed they existed.

Demons? Interesting twist! Of course, we can use basic physical principles and advanced logic, and figure out, if "good" exists, then "evil" must also exist. If it didn't, we'd have no idea of what "good" is. This means demon spirits do exist, and as a matter of fact, some humans worship these demon spirits, and that is their God. Again... never claimed I could prove WHOSE god exists.

I think you're supremely confused as to what "proof" means.

"Spirituality" in a person does not prove God. For it to be proof, you'd have to show that it cannot be an abstract reality the person is creating in his/her own mind. A frame of being they chose to live as - despite whether God exists or not. Meaning, just because a person is "spiritual" does not mean that whatever they pray to or believe in ACTUALLY EXISTS.

That's the most retarded excuse for "proof" I could possibly imagine.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We're not like the monkeys, Joe, that's the whole point here. We possess an attribute the monkeys never will have, the ability to make a spiritual connection to something greater than self. It's not the product of evolution, nothing else in nature does it.

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.​

The difference between Monkeys and the rest of the animals, as Boss and others have pointed out, is Sentience. Sentience is living with the certain knowledge that life ends, and the ability to imagine possibilities for an extension.

Is there ANY religion that's not focused at least in part on what happens at death?



The need for (insert your preferred Deity here - a.k.a. 'God') is directly attributable to the knowledge of death, and the fear that knowledge generates because of the inevitable question, "What's next?!?"


To console the living by speaking of the recently departed with over-confident statements like "She's in a better place" is arrogance defined, considering our actual knowledge of the subject.

The Denial of Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Boss]

We're not like the monkeys, Joe, that's the whole point here. We possess an attribute the monkeys never will have, the ability to make a spiritual connection to something greater than self. It's not the product of evolution, nothing else in nature does it.

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.​

The difference between Monkeys and the rest of the animals, as Boss and others have pointed out, is Sentience. Sentience is living with the certain knowledge that life ends, and the ability to imagine possibilities for an extension.

Is there ANY religion that's not focused at least in part on what happens at death?



The need for (insert your preferred Deity here - a.k.a. 'God') is directly attributable to the knowledge of death, and the fear that knowledge generates because of the inevitable question, "What's next?!?"


To console the living by speaking of the recently departed with over-confident statements like "She's in a better place" is arrogance defined, considering our actual knowledge of the subject.

I think our "fear of death" stems FROM our ability to spiritually connect. My rationale, is very much a part of physical science, because we do not see this "fear of death" manifesting anywhere else in nature. Of course, every living thing will attempt to preserve life for itself, that is natural. But the contemplation and 'worry' about death, is exclusive to our species. So is spiritual connection.

It is indeed an anomaly that can't be rationally dismissed, as numan and others would like to do. Our complexed brains didn't cause us to imagine a delusion, which just so happened to be the impetus behind everything that distinguishes us from the rest of life. This not only defies everything that Darwin had to say about natural selection, but it nullifies all logic.

 

[AVG-JOE]

still no "cause" but lots of effect.
if you take out the god crutch would spirituality still stand?

Define the crutch. If Monkeys, sans their Gods, would lose all hope and self destruct, would personal worship of a God, and the utter freedom to do so be a bad thing?

In the humble opinion of this average Monkey, Monkeys are born with two and only two "rights", ass-u-me-ing they hit the ground breathing and survive to adulthood: the right to their own attitude and the right to be wrong in their guess at the shared query: "What happens at death?"

That's the beauty of the US Constitution... among other things it codifies the concept of free thought.

Welcome to America, where Christians have just as much a right to be wrong as do Muslims, Atheists, Mormons, Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Beliefs are like nipples... every Monkey has a set and no two sets are identical.​

 

[Boss]

To justify such a silly non sequitur, you would need to show how it would contradict Darwin -- either "completely" or partially.

Well, because you are assigning an undesirable attribute which would not be conducive with survival of the species, and would have resulted in the humans with inferior working deluded minds to become extinct, as less deluded upper primates prevailed. It's relatively simple.

Thank you for demonstrating the crudity of your understanding of Evolution.

It is quite possible, and even common, for an adaptation to have both positive and negative influences on survival. For a trait to survive and be passed on, it is sufficient for the positive effects to outweigh the negative, compared to not having the trait at all.

As long as a big, complex, unstable brain does more to enhance our survival, despite certain negative propensities, then it is likely to endure.

An obvious example of what I am writing about is Sickle Cell Anaemia.

Sickle Cell Anaemia is very disadvantageous in areas where malaria is not common -- yet the genes for this trait have not only survived, but increased their numbers and spread very far out of their African homeland -- because human civilization, which many people imagine to be advantageous, has been such an efficient spreader of malaria.

You've drifted away from natural selection now. I understand why you have to do that, because I am correct and you don't want to admit it. Still, the point made was valid, and stands. According to Darwin, if what you surmise were true, the upper primates who share 98% of our DNA, and who have the same complex cerebral cortex and brain as humans, physically speaking, would have prevailed over the handicapped humans who suffered from debilitating delusions and irrational fears.

We possess no other unique attribute, besides spirituality. Everything else, is evidenced in nature to some degree, intelligence, creativity, imagination, ingenuity... it can all be exemplified to some degree, in other species. What is not duplicated anywhere, is human spirituality. It is through this unique attribute, we are able to do things the other forms of life have not achieved and will never achieve.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.​

The difference between Monkeys and the rest of the animals, as Boss and others have pointed out, is Sentience. Sentience is living with the certain knowledge that life ends, and the ability to imagine possibilities for an extension.

Is there ANY religion that's not focused at least in part on what happens at death?



The need for (insert your preferred Deity here - a.k.a. 'God') is directly attributable to the knowledge of death, and the fear that knowledge generates because of the inevitable question, "What's next?!?"


To console the living by speaking of the recently departed with over-confident statements like "She's in a better place" is arrogance defined, considering our actual knowledge of the subject.

The Denial of Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"I went SKY-diving..."
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA_ffBMMsqA]Tim McGraw - Live Like You Were Dying - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.​

The difference between Monkeys and the rest of the animals, as Boss and others have pointed out, is Sentience. Sentience is living with the certain knowledge that life ends, and the ability to imagine possibilities for an extension.

Is there ANY religion that's not focused at least in part on what happens at death?



The need for (insert your preferred Deity here - a.k.a. 'God') is directly attributable to the knowledge of death, and the fear that knowledge generates because of the inevitable question, "What's next?!?"


To console the living by speaking of the recently departed with over-confident statements like "She's in a better place" is arrogance defined, considering our actual knowledge of the subject.

The Denial of Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"I went SKY-diving..."
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA_ffBMMsqA]Tim McGraw - Live Like You Were Dying - YouTube[/ame]

seriously? good for you!

I had reservations to do that and learn to fly a glider and weather conspired against me each time. Flew in a very small plane and took controls.. a Cessna 150 training plane ... knees in my throat it was so frigging small...

 

[AVG-JOE]

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.​

The difference between Monkeys and the rest of the animals, as Boss and others have pointed out, is Sentience. Sentience is living with the certain knowledge that life ends, and the ability to imagine possibilities for an extension.

Is there ANY religion that's not focused at least in part on what happens at death?



The need for (insert your preferred Deity here - a.k.a. 'God') is directly attributable to the knowledge of death, and the fear that knowledge generates because of the inevitable question, "What's next?!?"


To console the living by speaking of the recently departed with over-confident statements like "She's in a better place" is arrogance defined, considering our actual knowledge of the subject.

I think our "fear of death" stems FROM our ability to spiritually connect. My rationale, is very much a part of physical science, because we do not see this "fear of death" manifesting anywhere else in nature. Of course, every living thing will attempt to preserve life for itself, that is natural. But the contemplation and 'worry' about death, is exclusive to our species. So is spiritual connection.

It is indeed an anomaly that can't be rationally dismissed, as numan and others would like to do. Our complexed brains didn't cause us to imagine a delusion, which just so happened to be the impetus behind everything that distinguishes us from the rest of life. This not only defies everything that Darwin had to say about natural selection, but it nullifies all logic.

I would imagine that the ability to imagine figures a bit in a 'Spiritual Trait' that sets Monkeys apart from animals.

If any Monkey religion turns out to be close to correct, I hope it's a spiritual one that has a reset button.

It's been a fun ride so far, and looking forward to more, but an extension beyond the inevitable unknown would ROCK!!!

 

[daws101]

still no "cause" but lots of effect.
if you take out the god crutch would spirituality still stand?

Define the crutch. If Monkeys, sans their Gods, would lose all hope and self destruct, would personal worship of (insert your preferred Deity here) and the utter freedom to do so be a bad thing?

In the humble opinion of this average Monkey, Monkeys are born with two and only two "rights", ass-u-me-ing they hit the ground breathing and survive to adulthood: the right to their own attitude and the right to be wrong in their guess at the shared query: "What happens at death?"

That's the beauty of the US Constitution... among other things it codifies the concept of free thought.

Welcome to America, where Christians have just as much a right to be wrong as do Muslims, Atheists, Mormons, Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Beliefs are like nipples... every Monkey has a set and no two sets are identical.​

imo the crutch is giving everything over to god ..in other words taking responsibility.
you're 100%percent correct that everybody has the right to be wrong.
after all, we're still just Monkeys

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Denial of Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"I went SKY-diving..."
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA_ffBMMsqA]Tim McGraw - Live Like You Were Dying - YouTube[/ame]

seriously? good for you!

I had reservations to do that and learn to fly a glider and weather conspired against me each time. Flew in a very small plane and took controls.. a Cessna 150 training plane ... knees in my throat it was so frigging small...

Who, me?!?

I haven't been skydiving, its the words to the song.

Truth be told, skydiving is NOT one that's on my bucket list, nor is bungee jumping .

 

[daws101]

"I went SKY-diving..."
Tim McGraw - Live Like You Were Dying - YouTube

seriously? good for you!

I had reservations to do that and learn to fly a glider and weather conspired against me each time. Flew in a very small plane and took controls.. a Cessna 150 training plane ... knees in my throat it was so frigging small...

Who, me?!?

I haven't been skydiving, its the words to the song.

Truth be told, skydiving is NOT one that's on my bucket list, nor is bungee jumping .

I don't know if you're gonna buy it both seem fairly fast

 

[AVG-JOE]

Ass-U-me-ing catastrophic failure, but there's a LOT of ways to survive either of those activities and regret it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

still no "cause" but lots of effect.
if you take out the god crutch would spirituality still stand?

Define the crutch. If Monkeys, sans their Gods, would lose all hope and self destruct, would personal worship of (insert your preferred Deity here) and the utter freedom to do so be a bad thing?

In the humble opinion of this average Monkey, Monkeys are born with two and only two "rights", ass-u-me-ing they hit the ground breathing and survive to adulthood: the right to their own attitude and the right to be wrong in their guess at the shared query: "What happens at death?"

That's the beauty of the US Constitution... among other things it codifies the concept of free thought.

Welcome to America, where Christians have just as much a right to be wrong as do Muslims, Atheists, Mormons, Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Beliefs are like nipples... every Monkey has a set and no two sets are identical.​

imo the crutch is giving everything over to god ..in other words taking responsibility.
you're 100%percent correct that everybody has the right to be wrong.
after all, we're still just Monkeys

lol, you libtards just cant get your facts straight.

We are not monkeys, we are apes without tales.

But some are also monkeys, like most libtards I have met are definitely monkeys.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Define the crutch. If Monkeys, sans their Gods, would lose all hope and self destruct, would personal worship of (insert your preferred Deity here) and the utter freedom to do so be a bad thing?

In the humble opinion of this average Monkey, Monkeys are born with two and only two "rights", ass-u-me-ing they hit the ground breathing and survive to adulthood: the right to their own attitude and the right to be wrong in their guess at the shared query: "What happens at death?"

That's the beauty of the US Constitution... among other things it codifies the concept of free thought.

Welcome to America, where Christians have just as much a right to be wrong as do Muslims, Atheists, Mormons, Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Beliefs are like nipples... every Monkey has a set and no two sets are identical.​

imo the crutch is giving everything over to god ..in other words taking responsibility.
you're 100%percent correct that everybody has the right to be wrong.
after all, we're still just Monkeys

lol, you libtards just cant get your facts straight.

We are not monkeys, we are apes without tales.

But some are also monkeys, like most libtards I have met are definitely monkeys.

Apes without 'tales'?

But...

But...​

But... Tellin' tales is what Monkeys do!​

Ancient tales, tall tales, post-modern tales... tales of love, tales of wonder. Don't sell yourself short, Monkey.

And don't be rude. You know damn well that it's 'Monkey', not 'monkey'.

 

[BreezeWood]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

... 'life after death'


well, again they are not solving their problems before the physiological form ceases and just hope maybe something will happen after their last breath ... you may as well state a solution not found in time is certain death.


"life after death" will never occur - only uninterrupted life that continues living will enter the OuterWorld of the Everlasting.

 

[numan]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

.

 

[Boss]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

.

Great... Let's see if we can prop up religion once more, so that we can kick it in the teeth again, because we just haven't had our fill yet, right? I understand why Marx had disdain for religion, you have to rid man of spiritual thought in order to have them worship statist government instead. But why do so many people in this thread, continue to conflate human spirituality with religion, which the spirituality fostered?

If humans "fear death" and you are correct about god and spiritual nature not existing, then it is a totally irrational and illogical fear. Why would humans (or any living thing) develop a totally irrational and illogical fear? Where did that "evolve" from? More importantly, why would this irrational and illogical fear persist for the entirety of the species, when no similar anomaly exists anywhere else in nature?

It seems to me, the "age of enlightenment" and development of philosophy, would have taken the place of all our irrational and illogical fears, and we would have abandon the silly attribute of spirituality. But, nope... 95% of humans still believe in something greater than self.... silly Monkeys!

 

[Hollie]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

... 'life after death'


well, again they are not solving their problems before the physiological form ceases and just hope maybe something will happen after their last breath ... you may as well state a solution not found in time is certain death.


"life after death" will never occur - only uninterrupted life that continues living will enter the OuterWorld of the Everlasting.

Nope. Fear of death is the motivation.

I think that arguments for belief in the supernatural can be resolved by describing one of the various dynamics that motivates religious beliefs: The deep seated fear of dying, fear of the unknown and a desire to experience our lives. Perhaps not everyone shares those feeling, perhaps not everyone can. The best way to ameliorate such fear is to actively be involved in making our lives meaningful and relevant. The onus is on us, not a father in the sky.

It is quite obvious that religions use fear as a form of mind control. Converting out of ones religion (or simply rejecting the coercive efforts to join the religion), is usually accompanied by threats of being punished by whatever head deity captains the particular religion. How utterly weak a faith must be that it must control it’s adherents through threats and intimidation.

Think about it, what is the best way to get someone to believe as you wish for them to? FEAR. Scare the hell out of him. Tell the people that "evilutionists" are on a paved road to hell...., tell people that leaving the faith will cause god(s) to abandon them (and back up those threats with images of searing flesh, winged monsters, eternal torment), and you will deter them (for a time) until they LEARN better.

 

[daws101]

Define the crutch. If Monkeys, sans their Gods, would lose all hope and self destruct, would personal worship of (insert your preferred Deity here) and the utter freedom to do so be a bad thing?

In the humble opinion of this average Monkey, Monkeys are born with two and only two "rights", ass-u-me-ing they hit the ground breathing and survive to adulthood: the right to their own attitude and the right to be wrong in their guess at the shared query: "What happens at death?"

That's the beauty of the US Constitution... among other things it codifies the concept of free thought.

Welcome to America, where Christians have just as much a right to be wrong as do Muslims, Atheists, Mormons, Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Beliefs are like nipples... every Monkey has a set and no two sets are identical.​

imo the crutch is giving everything over to god ..in other words taking responsibility.
you're 100%percent correct that everybody has the right to be wrong.
after all, we're still just Monkeys

lol, you libtards just cant get your facts straight.

We are not monkeys, we are apes without tales.

But some are also monkeys, like most libtards I have met are definitely monkeys.

so god is an evolutionist?