Dems got the Trump Racism thing all wrong

[BS Filter]

I agree with Trump. I don't want poor uneducated unskilled people from backward cultures coming here either. It puts more burden on taxpayers. Why do you want them to come here?

Well that goes to the core of the discussion that we should be having. I have no problem with Merit based to a degree... even for the largest fraction of people we accept in. However, I think if an industry leader or scientific genius, of merit, immigrates to the US then that person has a right to want to live near his/her family and sponsor family members to join him or her. I also think that many people can ascend to greatness given the opportunity. We hear rags to riches stories all the time from some of the greatest people throughout history. Therefore, accepting a fraction of people from poor, oppressive, or restrictive countries can be of value as well. They bring a spirit and perspective that somebody of means can't have. They bring an appreciation for freedom and opportunity because they came from a world of restrictions and strife. This is a very powerful perspective to have and something that I see value in as they pursue the American Dream.

I agree. My problem is bringing in a culture that is ignorant, unskilled, hates the USA and wants to build another culture here instead of assimilating as Americans.

 

[Coyote]

I agree with Trump. I don't want poor uneducated unskilled people from backward cultures coming here either. It puts more burden on taxpayers. Why do you want them to come here?

It actually doesn't - it usually evens out after the first generation because of immigration and a drive to succeed. The irony here is what you are saying is what American nativists have been saying for generations. The only difference is the country - it used to be Eastern Europe, Italy, Ireland, etc. And just because people are poor or come from those countries doesn't mean they are unskilled, uneducated or non-hardworking. Trump even signaled out Nigerians for special condemnation. Why on earth for? Where does he get this crap?

It Isn't Just Asian Immigrants Who Thrive

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

This isn't the power of Confucius. It’s the magic of high-skilled immigration. When a country selects immigrants for their educational background and technical skills, it doesn’t just get smart people -- it gets families committed to education, hard work and future-oriented life planning. Every society has its own version of what Kristof calls Confucian values. They are universal. And skilled immigration brings the families with those values to the U.S. from every corner of the globe.​

One generation as you claim syphons billions in welfare, also takes jobs fromAmericans that have been established for generations. Why should we that pay taxes support and educate them, especially those coming here that hate our democtacy like the Somali muslims in Minneapolis. You been to Minneapolis lately? How about Dearborn, Michigan? They aren't assimilating as Americans. They're building a new nation.

If we are talking legal immigration, then they are far less likely to use benefits then native Americans - particularly welfare. Many certainly seem to be assimilating much the same as other immigrant groups. What's wrong with Dearborn aside from the endless conspiracy theory crap that gets claimed about it.

 

[Slade3200]

If the illegal immigrants were to become citizens and vote Republican or not vote at all, the Democrats would start laying down bricks today, for free!

Democrats are the racists!

Then your position should be to give them legal status and not citizenship unless they undergo a more intensive process that involves proof of merit and perhaps fines or community service. The Left keeps them protected and in this country. The right takes away their vote and other citizenship privileges so it isn't a full amnesty. Now wouldn't that be a good compromise?

 

[Coyote]

I agree with Trump. I don't want poor uneducated unskilled people from backward cultures coming here either. It puts more burden on taxpayers. Why do you want them to come here?

Well that goes to the core of the discussion that we should be having. I have no problem with Merit based to a degree... even for the largest fraction of people we accept in. However, I think if an industry leader or scientific genius, of merit, immigrates to the US then that person has a right to want to live near his/her family and sponsor family members to join him or her. I also think that many people can ascend to greatness given the opportunity. We hear rags to riches stories all the time from some of the greatest people throughout history. Therefore, accepting a fraction of people from poor, oppressive, or restrictive countries can be of value as well. They bring a spirit and perspective that somebody of means can't have. They bring an appreciation for freedom and opportunity because they came from a world of restrictions and strife. This is a very powerful perspective to have and something that I see value in as they pursue the American Dream.

I agree. My problem is bringing in a culture that is ignorant, unskilled, hates the USA and wants to build another culture here instead of assimilating as Americans.

Why do you assume they "hate" the US? People don't immigrate lightly - it is a HUGE step, entering a foreign culture, leaving friends and family and familiar customs behind, learning a new language. People who immigrate usually self-select to be those most able to accept the challenge living in a new country provides and embrace it.

 

[Slade3200]

I agree with Trump. I don't want poor uneducated unskilled people from backward cultures coming here either. It puts more burden on taxpayers. Why do you want them to come here?

Well that goes to the core of the discussion that we should be having. I have no problem with Merit based to a degree... even for the largest fraction of people we accept in. However, I think if an industry leader or scientific genius, of merit, immigrates to the US then that person has a right to want to live near his/her family and sponsor family members to join him or her. I also think that many people can ascend to greatness given the opportunity. We hear rags to riches stories all the time from some of the greatest people throughout history. Therefore, accepting a fraction of people from poor, oppressive, or restrictive countries can be of value as well. They bring a spirit and perspective that somebody of means can't have. They bring an appreciation for freedom and opportunity because they came from a world of restrictions and strife. This is a very powerful perspective to have and something that I see value in as they pursue the American Dream.

I agree. My problem is bringing in a culture that is ignorant, unskilled, hates the USA and wants to build another culture here instead of assimilating as Americans.

I don't want that either, but is that really what is happening or is that just want the Right is painting? Have you really looked at the numbers? I have spoken to many immigrants and it is nearly a decade long process. They have to live and work here for a long time, usually under sponsored visas before they gain citizenship. That journey proves merit in my opinion if they complete it and it applies to a large portion of our immigrants.

 

[forkup]

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politicians on their merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

I pointed that out in the OP. I realize it energizes the Dem base, but it also energizes Trumps base and polarizes moderates which in my opinion is not productive for our country as a whole. My goal is simple... To engage in more honest and respectful conversations so we can work together to build a better nation. Stop the trend of dirty politics, demonization, hyperbole, and dishonesty that is destroying our discourse and polarizing our leaders and our people

For the record, I nearly always am respectful, I rarely, if ever use hyperbole, and I strife for honesty. Having said that, in the year or something on USMB, I haven't encountered any of these scruples on the people on the right, unless prompted and even then with great reluctance. I do it because I want to be fair. I also have seen that doesn't score me any points. It makes the people I talk to think of me as arrogant, ignore or ridicule me. It's a micro cosmos of US politics. If you don't realize that fairness doesn't mean shit, if fairness makes you lose elections. It makes it that people who aren't fair but unscrupulous get what they want. Now that's NOT fair.

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

 

[Slade3200]

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politicians on their merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

I pointed that out in the OP. I realize it energizes the Dem base, but it also energizes Trumps base and polarizes moderates which in my opinion is not productive for our country as a whole. My goal is simple... To engage in more honest and respectful conversations so we can work together to build a better nation. Stop the trend of dirty politics, demonization, hyperbole, and dishonesty that is destroying our discourse and polarizing our leaders and our people

For the record, I nearly always am respectful, I rarely, if ever use hyperbole, and I strife for honesty. Having said that, in the year or something on USMB, I haven't encountered any of these scruples on the people on the right, unless prompted and even then with great reluctance. I do it because I want to be fair. I also have seen that doesn't score me any points. It makes the people I talk to think of me as arrogant, ignore or ridicule me. It's a micro cosmos of US politics. If you don't realize that fairness doesn't mean shit, if fairness makes you lose elections. It makes it that people who aren't fair but unscrupulous get what they want. Now that's NOT fair.

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

I do the same thing and I piss off a lot of the wingnuts. And there are a lot of wingnuts here, no doubt. I don't think this board reflects the average person in this world, at least from my perspective, but there are some good ones on here and if you engage with the good ones and ignore the ones just here to make noise then there are some great eye opening conversations to be had.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

I don't feel that way at all. Why do you?

Waiting?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politicians on their merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

I pointed that out in the OP. I realize it energizes the Dem base, but it also energizes Trumps base and polarizes moderates which in my opinion is not productive for our country as a whole. My goal is simple... To engage in more honest and respectful conversations so we can work together to build a better nation. Stop the trend of dirty politics, demonization, hyperbole, and dishonesty that is destroying our discourse and polarizing our leaders and our people

For the record, I nearly always am respectful, I rarely, if ever use hyperbole, and I strife for honesty. Having said that, in the year or something on USMB, I haven't encountered any of these scruples on the people on the right, unless prompted and even then with great reluctance. I do it because I want to be fair. I also have seen that doesn't score me any points. It makes the people I talk to think of me as arrogant, ignore or ridicule me. It's a micro cosmos of US politics. If you don't realize that fairness doesn't mean shit, if fairness makes you lose elections. It makes it that people who aren't fair but unscrupulous get what they want. Now that's NOT fair.

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

I do the same thing and I piss off a lot of the wingnuts. And there are a lot of wingnuts here, no doubt. I don't think this board reflects the average person in this world, at least from my perspective, but there are some good ones on here and if you engage with the good ones and ignore the ones just here to make noise then there are some great eye opening conversations to be had.

Who are the 5 most unreasonable liberal USMB regulars?

 

[John Shaw]

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

I don't feel that way at all. Why do you?

Waiting?

Quoting yourself?

Specifically, what part of my post are you asking about?

 

[forkup]

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politicians on their merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

I pointed that out in the OP. I realize it energizes the Dem base, but it also energizes Trumps base and polarizes moderates which in my opinion is not productive for our country as a whole. My goal is simple... To engage in more honest and respectful conversations so we can work together to build a better nation. Stop the trend of dirty politics, demonization, hyperbole, and dishonesty that is destroying our discourse and polarizing our leaders and our people

For the record, I nearly always am respectful, I rarely, if ever use hyperbole, and I strife for honesty. Having said that, in the year or something on USMB, I haven't encountered any of these scruples on the people on the right, unless prompted and even then with great reluctance. I do it because I want to be fair. I also have seen that doesn't score me any points. It makes the people I talk to think of me as arrogant, ignore or ridicule me. It's a micro cosmos of US politics. If you don't realize that fairness doesn't mean shit, if fairness makes you lose elections. It makes it that people who aren't fair but unscrupulous get what they want. Now that's NOT fair.

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

I do the same thing and I piss off a lot of the wingnuts. And there are a lot of wingnuts here, no doubt. I don't think this board reflects the average person in this world, at least from my perspective, but there are some good ones on here and if you engage with the good ones and ignore the ones just here to make noise then there are some great eye opening conversations to be had.

The eye opening conversation is besides personal ego the main reason I'm on this board. Being proven wrong is gratifying in a gut twisting way.

 

[Wyatt earp]

l. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here.

It was not ignorant

And it was not stupid

 

[MrShangles]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

But with all that evidence you speak of.
As usual what Trump says is usually the truth, you might think it’s mean and hurts someone’s feelings but it’s usually true, like the shit hole comment, isn’t it true, are those places shit holes. Did he say the people were shit holes no he said the places were shit holes didn’t he.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LoneLaugher]

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

I don't feel that way at all. Why do you?

Waiting?

Quoting yourself?

Specifically, what part of my post are you asking about?

Why do you feel like you are being blamed for any indiscretion on the part of any white person? I don't feel that way at all.

 

[LoneLaugher]

l. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here.

It was not ignorant

And it was not stupid

It was. You are wrong. Can you ever admit it?

 

[John Shaw]

Personal experience, and exposure to academic types who have very unrealistic opinions on the subject matter.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Personal experience, and exposure to academic types who have very unrealistic opinions on the subject matter.

Lame answer. You said nothing.

 

[nat4900]

Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

With ONE important exception to the above.....Trump revealed his prejudices when he stated, rhetorically, "why don;t we have more immigrants from Norway."

THAT,more than the shit hole statement confirmed for me that Trump simply cannot overcome his racial antipathies.

 

[John Shaw]

Personal experience, and exposure to academic types who have very unrealistic opinions on the subject matter.

Lame answer. You said nothing.

Fortunately, I don't get paid to entertain you.

 

[Slade3200]

I pointed that out in the OP. I realize it energizes the Dem base, but it also energizes Trumps base and polarizes moderates which in my opinion is not productive for our country as a whole. My goal is simple... To engage in more honest and respectful conversations so we can work together to build a better nation. Stop the trend of dirty politics, demonization, hyperbole, and dishonesty that is destroying our discourse and polarizing our leaders and our people

For the record, I nearly always am respectful, I rarely, if ever use hyperbole, and I strife for honesty. Having said that, in the year or something on USMB, I haven't encountered any of these scruples on the people on the right, unless prompted and even then with great reluctance. I do it because I want to be fair. I also have seen that doesn't score me any points. It makes the people I talk to think of me as arrogant, ignore or ridicule me. It's a micro cosmos of US politics. If you don't realize that fairness doesn't mean shit, if fairness makes you lose elections. It makes it that people who aren't fair but unscrupulous get what they want. Now that's NOT fair.

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

I do the same thing and I piss off a lot of the wingnuts. And there are a lot of wingnuts here, no doubt. I don't think this board reflects the average person in this world, at least from my perspective, but there are some good ones on here and if you engage with the good ones and ignore the ones just here to make noise then there are some great eye opening conversations to be had.

Who are the 5 most unreasonable liberal USMB regulars?

Lakota, Nat, caribeener, siete and Deanrd are pretty strong with their opinions that fall Left. I like those guys because they are arguing on my side most of the time, but you asked a question and i'm giving a direct answer. That said, this board is over run by Far Right, no doubt. Go to the main board page and scroll through all the posts and count how many are from Left wingers and how many from the Right.