Dems got the Trump Racism thing all wrong

[Slade3200]

l. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here.

It was not ignorant

And it was not stupid

well thats your ignorant and stupid opinion now isn't it? ;-)

 

[dcbl]

I agree with Trump. I don't want poor uneducated unskilled people from backward cultures coming here either. It puts more burden on taxpayers. Why do you want them to come here?

It actually doesn't - it usually evens out after the first generation because of immigration and a drive to succeed. The irony here is what you are saying is what American nativists have been saying for generations. The only difference is the country - it used to be Eastern Europe, Italy, Ireland, etc. And just because people are poor or come from those countries doesn't mean they are unskilled, uneducated or non-hardworking. Trump even signaled out Nigerians for special condemnation. Why on earth for? Where does he get this crap?

It Isn't Just Asian Immigrants Who Thrive

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

This isn't the power of Confucius. It’s the magic of high-skilled immigration. When a country selects immigrants for their educational background and technical skills, it doesn’t just get smart people -- it gets families committed to education, hard work and future-oriented life planning. Every society has its own version of what Kristof calls Confucian values. They are universal. And skilled immigration brings the families with those values to the U.S. from every corner of the globe.​

The problem is that we are inundated with unskilled laborers through immigration right now

part of the Trump agenda that he ran on was our immigration policy

I know that a lot of people don't like him, but the level of harassment he gets is unprecedented

It's time to move on and seek compromise where possible, these talks were an effort to do that and Senator Durbin showed bad faith, even to the point of damaging American interests

the race card has been way overplayed

We do not need to bring in destitute immigrants from 3rd world countries

Attempts to slander the president for saying so will backfire

 

[PredFan]

Big deal. He's a racist, Pence is a racist, the GOP are racist, conservative voters are racist, I'm racist, you're racist. That word carries no meaning except that some butthurt leftie is crying about you disagreeing with them.

 

[Coyote]

I agree with Trump. I don't want poor uneducated unskilled people from backward cultures coming here either. It puts more burden on taxpayers. Why do you want them to come here?

It actually doesn't - it usually evens out after the first generation because of immigration and a drive to succeed. The irony here is what you are saying is what American nativists have been saying for generations. The only difference is the country - it used to be Eastern Europe, Italy, Ireland, etc. And just because people are poor or come from those countries doesn't mean they are unskilled, uneducated or non-hardworking. Trump even signaled out Nigerians for special condemnation. Why on earth for? Where does he get this crap?

It Isn't Just Asian Immigrants Who Thrive

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

This isn't the power of Confucius. It’s the magic of high-skilled immigration. When a country selects immigrants for their educational background and technical skills, it doesn’t just get smart people -- it gets families committed to education, hard work and future-oriented life planning. Every society has its own version of what Kristof calls Confucian values. They are universal. And skilled immigration brings the families with those values to the U.S. from every corner of the globe.​

The problem is that we are inundated with unskilled laborers through immigration right now

part of the Trump agenda that he ran on was our immigration policy

I know that a lot of people don't like him, but the level of harassment he gets is unprecedented

It's time to move on and seek compromise where possible, these talks were an effort to do that and Senator Durbin showed bad faith, even to the point of damaging American interests

the race card has been way overplayed

We do not need to bring in destitute immigrants from 3rd world countries

Attempts to slander the president for saying so will backfire

Are we? Because there always seems to be a demand for them.

The level of harrassment he gets might be unprecedented but I think it's fair to say the level of harrassing he does is also unprecedented.

 

[LoneLaugher]

For the record, I nearly always am respectful, I rarely, if ever use hyperbole, and I strife for honesty. Having said that, in the year or something on USMB, I haven't encountered any of these scruples on the people on the right, unless prompted and even then with great reluctance. I do it because I want to be fair. I also have seen that doesn't score me any points. It makes the people I talk to think of me as arrogant, ignore or ridicule me. It's a micro cosmos of US politics. If you don't realize that fairness doesn't mean shit, if fairness makes you lose elections. It makes it that people who aren't fair but unscrupulous get what they want. Now that's NOT fair.

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

I do the same thing and I piss off a lot of the wingnuts. And there are a lot of wingnuts here, no doubt. I don't think this board reflects the average person in this world, at least from my perspective, but there are some good ones on here and if you engage with the good ones and ignore the ones just here to make noise then there are some great eye opening conversations to be had.

Who are the 5 most unreasonable liberal USMB regulars?

Lakota, Nat, caribeener, siete and Deanrd are pretty strong with their opinions that fall Left. I like those guys because they are arguing on my side most of the time, but you asked a question and i'm giving a direct answer. That said, this board is over run by Far Right, no doubt. Go to the main board page and scroll through all the posts and count how many are from Left wingers and how many from the Right.

Do any of those guys post fake news or lie knowingly on a daily basis. Do they express hatred for anyone for their ethnicity or sexual preference or religion?

 

[Slade3200]

Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

With ONE important exception to the above.....Trump revealed his prejudices when he stated, rhetorically, "why don;t we have more immigrants from Norway."

THAT,more than the shit hole statement confirmed for me that Trump simply cannot overcome his racial antipathies.

Perhaps, but that is subjective. He could have meant it as a "white" thing or he could have meant it as a rich/successful thing. It can be taken many different ways

 

[Slade3200]

I understand where you are coming from. I've noticed something interesting about people on this board. Many when poked jump to their side and go into full wingnut mode. But i've crossed over with a few by finding common ground and showing respect and understanding of their perspective. It's been quite amazing the shift in how they treat you and the quality of the conversations. I'm quite liberal and get called libtard all the time but have actually developed some respect from and for people that I once thought of as opposition wingnuts. Dale Smith P@triot iceberg to name a few who I had early battles with but have grown to respect over time as good opposition. They piss me off sometimes and say things that I disagree with, but there has also been a very healthy flip side to that coin. Something to think about...

Maybe it's how you argue that makes them less likely to become unreasonable. I tend to bring out the worst in them. I have little patience with dishonesty and I demand correct sourcing of claims made. I don't tend to let people distract to much from the OP. It makes people like me less. A few times I've been able to have a honest conversation but it's rare.

I do the same thing and I piss off a lot of the wingnuts. And there are a lot of wingnuts here, no doubt. I don't think this board reflects the average person in this world, at least from my perspective, but there are some good ones on here and if you engage with the good ones and ignore the ones just here to make noise then there are some great eye opening conversations to be had.

Who are the 5 most unreasonable liberal USMB regulars?

Lakota, Nat, caribeener, siete and Deanrd are pretty strong with their opinions that fall Left. I like those guys because they are arguing on my side most of the time, but you asked a question and i'm giving a direct answer. That said, this board is over run by Far Right, no doubt. Go to the main board page and scroll through all the posts and count how many are from Left wingers and how many from the Right.

Do any of those guys post fake news or lie knowingly on a daily basis. Do they express hatred for anyone for their ethnicity or sexual preference or religion?

I don't know, perhaps. Show me something and i'll tell if I think it is honest or not. What I do know is nobody holds a candle to Dr. Steve McGarrett... He has a phd in bullshit, he knows it, we all know it, and he loves it.

 

[BS Filter]

I'm not afraid to say it....I don't want any more muslims here. They ruined Dearborn, Michigan, in the process of ruining Minneapolis and a bunch of other cities. They're not assimilating. They're building a muslim nation.

 

[ColonelAngus]

We know Trump is racist. The Dems and the media have been telling us that every single day since Trump announced he is running for President.

This isn’t news. They could be running similar stories every day about Pelosi being senile. We know.

 

[BS Filter]

We know Trump is racist. The Dems and the media have been telling us that every single day since Trump announced he is running for President.

This isn’t news. They could be running similar stories every day about Pelosi being senile. We know.

Yeah, and he's also dumb. The democrats and their sycophantic media keep telling us.

 

[nat4900]

Perhaps, but that is subjective. He could have meant it as a "white" thing or he could have meant it as a rich/successful thing. It can be taken many different ways

You're spinning a bit, my friend......If Trump meant the rich/successful implication, there are other countries a bit richer and more successful than Norway.....

 

[dcbl]

Are we? Because there always seems to be a demand for them.

The level of harrassment he gets might be unprecedented but I think it's fair to say the level of harrassing he does is also unprecedented.

There are unemployed illegals in every major city waiting and hoping to get picked up for a day's work in every major city in America, and they are in most mid sized and smaller cities as well

Major cities all have labor pools where actual citizens go for work - many people looking for day labor pick up the illegals; thereby bypassing actual citizens looking for work

They also get away without paying employment taxes

Many Republicans are in favor of this system; hence the "bipartisan bill"

and yes, Trump fights back

as a republican, I love seeing it

 

[John Shaw]

Perhaps, but that is subjective. He could have meant it as a "white" thing or he could have meant it as a rich/successful thing. It can be taken many different ways

You're spinning a bit, my friend......If Trump meant the rich/successful implication, there are other countries a bit richer and more successful than Norway.....

And? You don't necessarily have to use the most extreme example every time you go to make a point.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The most extreme libs here believe that all men are created equal and if all are given the opportunity....all will prosper.

The most extreme righties believe that certain men will never prosper. Period. And their existence limits the prosperity of everyone else.

That's the deal.

 

[basquebromance]

Alveda King: “President Trump is not a racist and calling him a racist is outrageous and unjust. There are countries in Africa that are indeed hellholes.”

 

[Slade3200]

Perhaps, but that is subjective. He could have meant it as a "white" thing or he could have meant it as a rich/successful thing. It can be taken many different ways

You're spinning a bit, my friend......If Trump meant the rich/successful implication, there are other countries a bit richer and more successful than Norway.....

Trust me, i don't go out of my way to spin for Trump, I think the guy is disgusting as a president. I think he brought up Norway because he had just finished meeting with their leader and that country was fresh on his mind. Don't get me wrong, I think his shithole comment was inappropriate and embarrassing, I just think it was a class discrimination comment and not a racist one

 

[Mac1958]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played in this case. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

Well done. I hate seeing such an important word turned into mush, and used as a weapon, for pure political gain.

Unfortunately, with where we are right now, all we can do is wish. The Democrats are 100% committed to cramming PC and Identity Politics into every last damn crevice of our society; Trump is not going to stop saying sophomoric, embarrassing things; and the Trumpsters are going to keep lowering standards for the office of President. This is a shit show from one end to the other.

The best we can hope for is that one day, we'll look back and see that cooler heads finally prevailed above this madness. I sure as hell don't see it happening soon, but that hope is pretty much all I have at this point.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Alveda King: “President Trump is not a racist and calling him a racist is outrageous and unjust. There are countries in Africa that are indeed hellholes.”

Well, she's a Tom....
.

 

[Slade3200]

The most extreme libs here believe that all men are created equal and if all are given the opportunity....all will prosper.

The most extreme righties believe that certain men will never prosper. Period. And their existence limits the prosperity of everyone else.

That's the deal.

Kind of, I think the extreme left believe that all are born equal but minority groups are disadvantaged in this country so we owe it to them to make up for that disadvantage because ultimately our laws, system and ancestors were responsible for decades of discrimination which resulted in socioeconomic disadvantages. You are right on with the Right wingnut perspective.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played in this case. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

Well done. I hate seeing such an important word turned into mush, and used as a weapon, for pure political gain.

Unfortunately, with where we are right now, all we can do is wish. The Democrats are 100% committed to cramming PC and Identity Politics into every last damn crevice of our society; Trump is not going to stop saying sophomoric, embarrassing things; and the Trumpsters are going to keep lowering standards for the office of President. This is a shit show from one end to the other.

The best we can hope for is that one day, we'll look back and see that cooler heads finally prevailed above this madness. I sure as hell don't see it happening soon, but that hope is pretty much all I have at this point.
.

Awwww. How sweet.

The "both sides do it equally" theme. Perfect.

Trump = Obama. Just opposite ends.

Nailed it.