CDZ Discussion on Pfizer Covid Vaccine

[StormAl]

No one has a 'right' to put others at risk of infection.

What evidence do you have that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk of infection from this alleged Cov 2 virus?

That's been done, as you well know, so look it up if you are interested.

I know no such thing. In fact, I believe that the evidence strongly suggests the opposite.

Your denial is so weak. Do your research and please report back.

 

[flacaltenn]

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans.

getting your experimental data from NEWS sites and quack conspiracy sites -- is that gonna bias the outcome of your research??

Hey.. Full Stop.. Anecdotal stories -- especially media pieces -- are NOT valid research -- EVER...

Prove it.

That's weird request. Ever in your education did the topic of "the scientific method" come up? Ever had a class about how to set up an experiment or study? Wouldn't know where to start to fix the lack of knowledge here..

 

[StormAl]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

 

[Darkwind]

The US Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document to be put aside in the face of crisis, if we even have a crisis to deal with.

I am reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. " In the allegory, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but are not accurate representations of the real world. "

So it is with people who believe that an unproven personal fear gives them the right to control the shadows. These individuals do not understand reality because they have been chained to their philosophy of fear all their lives. They cannot fathom that the 'shadows' on the wall are real and are free and unencumbered by the deceit of those who have imprisoned in the cave.

They know no better, therefore they chase the chimera of their ideology, thinking that they have control over the shadows and can enforce this control.

The reality is, that the shadows are the only true reality while those who live in chains are to be pitied.

There is nothing the government nor a business can do to force an American to live in the servitude of the State. We do NOT recognize the government's mantra of "Papers please".

Just as it is unlawful to discriminate against a person of color in a business, so too will it be unlawful to demand a person's' papers'.

Those who believe otherwise need to behave themselvels.

 

[gipper]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

So you think getting the jab prevents you from infecting others. This is foolish statist thinking. There is absolutely no scientific proof this is true.

 

[StormAl]

The US Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document to be put aside in the face of crisis, if we even have a crisis to deal with.

I am reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. " In the allegory, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but are not accurate representations of the real world. "

So it is with people who believe that an unproven personal fear gives them the right to control the shadows. These individuals do not understand reality because they have been chained to their philosophy of fear all their lives. They cannot fathom that the 'shadows' on the wall are real and are free and unencumbered by the deceit of those who have imprisoned in the cave.

They know no better, therefore they chase the chimera of their ideology, thinking that they have control over the shadows and can enforce this control.

The reality is, that the shadows are the only true reality while those who live in chains are to be pitied.

There is nothing the government nor a business can do to force an American to live in the servitude of the State. We do NOT recognize the government's mantra of "Papers please".

Just as it is unlawful to discriminate against a person of color in a business, so too will it be unlawful to demand a person's' papers'.

Those who believe otherwise need to behave themselvels.

Following lawful government iaw the Constitution is certainly the government's business to ensure that citizens comply. The document is not libertarian, and those who suggest otherwise are unable to understand the Constitution, America, or its history.

Not one of you has a lawful right to infect others with disease.

 

[StormAl]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

So you think getting the jab prevents you from infecting others. This is foolish statist thinking. There is absolutely no scientific proof this is true.

That is certainly a foolish libertarian statement. You are no expert on the science of this issue, and you certainly do not comprehend American law, history, or its Constitution.

 

[Darkwind]

The US Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document to be put aside in the face of crisis, if we even have a crisis to deal with.

I am reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. " In the allegory, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but are not accurate representations of the real world. "

So it is with people who believe that an unproven personal fear gives them the right to control the shadows. These individuals do not understand reality because they have been chained to their philosophy of fear all their lives. They cannot fathom that the 'shadows' on the wall are real and are free and unencumbered by the deceit of those who have imprisoned in the cave.

They know no better, therefore they chase the chimera of their ideology, thinking that they have control over the shadows and can enforce this control.

The reality is, that the shadows are the only true reality while those who live in chains are to be pitied.

There is nothing the government nor a business can do to force an American to live in the servitude of the State. We do NOT recognize the government's mantra of "Papers please".

Just as it is unlawful to discriminate against a person of color in a business, so too will it be unlawful to demand a person's' papers'.

Those who believe otherwise need to behave themselvels.

Following lawful government iaw the Constitution is certainly the government's business to ensure that citizens comply. The document is not libertarian, and those who suggest otherwise are unable to understand the Constitution, America, or its history.

Not one of you has a lawful right to infect others with disease.

Hello shadow. How do you enjoy your chains today?

No one is infecting others. No one has the right to take a personal fear and limit the liberties of others.

The Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document, to be cherished in the good times only.

No one has the right to abuse the civil liberties of others.

Now behave yourself and come out of the cave.

 

[StormAl]

The US Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document to be put aside in the face of crisis, if we even have a crisis to deal with.

I am reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. " In the allegory, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but are not accurate representations of the real world. "

So it is with people who believe that an unproven personal fear gives them the right to control the shadows. These individuals do not understand reality because they have been chained to their philosophy of fear all their lives. They cannot fathom that the 'shadows' on the wall are real and are free and unencumbered by the deceit of those who have imprisoned in the cave.

They know no better, therefore they chase the chimera of their ideology, thinking that they have control over the shadows and can enforce this control.

The reality is, that the shadows are the only true reality while those who live in chains are to be pitied.

There is nothing the government nor a business can do to force an American to live in the servitude of the State. We do NOT recognize the government's mantra of "Papers please".

Just as it is unlawful to discriminate against a person of color in a business, so too will it be unlawful to demand a person's' papers'.

Those who believe otherwise need to behave themselvels.

Following lawful government iaw the Constitution is certainly the government's business to ensure that citizens comply. The document is not libertarian, and those who suggest otherwise are unable to understand the Constitution, America, or its history.

Not one of you has a lawful right to infect others with disease.

Hello shadow. How do you enjoy your chains today?

No one is infecting others. No one has the right to take a personal fear and limit the liberties of others.

The Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document, to be cherished in the good times only.

No one has the right to abuse the civil liberties of others.

Now behave yourself and come out of the cave.

You live in the shadows, and the caring Americans will live in the light of the constitution.

Darkwind, your light in your cave of shadows is flickering out.

ps: Plato is certainly associated, although with differences, to fascism.

I am not surprised this appeals to the far right and libertarian wings in America.

 

[phoenyx]

Is that an actual quote or are you attempting to convey what he said in your own words? From a previous conversation with you, it appears that it is the latter. In any case, by all means, cite the article you are referring to here and I'd be happy to take a look.

Gave you a link to the exact quote yesterday.. Maybe in the other thread.

Alright, let me know if you find it.

Without getting into what you alleged RFK said (I await your citation), I'm sure you're well aware that for people with alergic reactions to them, bee stings can be fatal due to anaphylaxis:

Why bee stings can be fatal

Three Britons have died in the past month from bee or wasp stings. Rebecca Allison explains why such an everyday hazard can be fatal

www.theguardian.com

Some people who get vaccines also get anaphylaxis and die as well.

You missed the entire point because youre not thinking about topic of introducing "foreign DNA" into the human body.. It's not only VENOM that gets into body -- but when a bee INJECTS YOU -- other parts of that bee's body and their DNA get injected.

Why is that not a fear for "multilating Human DNA"???

Again, are you actually quoting RFK or are interpreting what he said?

Anaphylaxis shock from vaccines DO NOT COME from the primary ingredients. It generally is reaction to a preservative or other component. And THEY ASK YOU if you have ever had an allergic to ANY vaccine in the screening..

I'm sure they're supposed to, but I doubt they always do. Kinda like a bunch of minors were given a Covid vaccine in australia even though none had been approved for minors in Australia:

Minors Mistakenly Given AstraZeneca Vaccine + More

The Defender’s COVID NewsWatch brings you the latest headlines on COVID-19 and vaccines.

childrenshealthdefense.org

Besides any Brownie or Cub Scout knows that folks do not have to DIE from anaphylaxis shock.. That's why at EVERY COVID INJ. site there's a 15 minute holding protocol and observation. And a SINGLE "epi-pen" injection will reverse that shock... "epi-pens" are in every school office, workplace 1st aid kit and CERTAINLY within every clinic or site doing mass injections..

Agreed that there are ways of reducing fatalities due to anaphylaxis, but it is certainly a danger with vaccines.

 

[phoenyx]

No one has a 'right' to put others at risk of infection.

What evidence do you have that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk of infection from this alleged Cov 2 virus?

That's been done, as you well know, so look it up if you are interested.

I know no such thing. In fact, I believe that the evidence strongly suggests the opposite.

Your denial is so weak. Do your research and please report back.

Buddy, -you- are the one who claimed that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk. The onus is on you to prove your case.

 

[phoenyx]

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans.

getting your experimental data from NEWS sites and quack conspiracy sites -- is that gonna bias the outcome of your research??

Hey.. Full Stop.. Anecdotal stories -- especially media pieces -- are NOT valid research -- EVER...

Prove it.

That's weird request.

Why? You made a claim, in capsed letters no less, one would expect you to have proof on hand. Anyway, moving on...

Ever in your education did the topic of "the scientific method" come up?

Sure. I'll quote Wikipedia's explanation of the process:
**
The process in the scientific method involves making conjectures (hypotheses), deriving predictions from them as logical consequences, and then carrying out experiments or empirical observations based on those predictions.[4][5] A hypothesis is a conjecture, based on knowledge obtained while seeking answers to the question. The hypothesis might be very specific, or it might be broad. Scientists then test hypotheses by conducting experiments or studies. A scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable, implying that it is possible to identify a possible outcome of an experiment or observation that conflicts with predictions deduced from the hypothesis; otherwise, the hypothesis cannot be meaningfully tested.[6]
**
Source:

Scientific method - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

News stories are empirical observations- that's where they'd fit in.

 

[StormAl]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk. Read for understanding, please.

 

[phoenyx]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk.

Before the WHO and the CDC scared a lot of people into thinking that lockdowns, wearing masks and getting vaxxed were the only way we could avoid an apocalypse, we were doing just fine without all of these things. I believe there is plenty of evidence that all of these things are doing far more harm than good. If you have evidence that these things are helping us, though, by all means present it. Only, if you could limit any evidence in this thread to just the Pfizer Covid Vaccine, I think we've begun to get rather off topic in this thread . For masks, you might consider this thread:

CDZ - The merits of mask wearing in these covid times

Some posters started talking about masks and their merits in another thread of mine, I thought it might be good to have a thread here dedicated to this subject. For my part, I wear masks where I have to, which is mainly stores and hospitals (they generally have someone checking to see if you...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[LA RAM FAN]

No one has a 'right' to put others at risk of infection.

What evidence do you have that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk of infection from this alleged Cov 2 virus?

That's been done, as you well know, so look it up if you are interested.

I know no such thing. In fact, I believe that the evidence strongly suggests the opposite.

Your denial is so weak. Do your research and please report back.

Oh my the irony,I see you are looking in the mirror.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I am NOT going to be injected with anything, regardless of where it comes from or what it is.

Amen to that.

 

[StormAl]

No one has a 'right' to put others at risk of infection.

What evidence do you have that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk of infection from this alleged Cov 2 virus?

That's been done, as you well know, so look it up if you are interested.

I know no such thing. In fact, I believe that the evidence strongly suggests the opposite.

Your denial is so weak. Do your research and please report back.

Oh my the irony,I see you are looking in the mirror.

That is you seeing yourself.

 

[StormAl]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk.

Before the WHO and the CDC scared a lot of people into thinking that lockdowns, wearing masks and getting vaxxed were the only way we could avoid an apocalypse, we were doing just fine without all of these things. I believe there is plenty of evidence that all of these things are doing far more harm than good. If you have evidence that these things are helping us, though, by all means present it. Only, if you could limit any evidence in this thread to just the Pfizer Covid Vaccine, I think we've begun to get rather off topic in this thread . For masks, you might consider this thread:

CDZ - The merits of mask wearing in these covid times

Some posters started talking about masks and their merits in another thread of mine, I thought it might be good to have a thread here dedicated to this subject. For my part, I wear masks where I have to, which is mainly stores and hospitals (they generally have someone checking to see if you...

www.usmessageboard.com

You can't prove any of your points is the point.

 

[Darkwind]

The US Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document to be put aside in the face of crisis, if we even have a crisis to deal with.

I am reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. " In the allegory, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but are not accurate representations of the real world. "

So it is with people who believe that an unproven personal fear gives them the right to control the shadows. These individuals do not understand reality because they have been chained to their philosophy of fear all their lives. They cannot fathom that the 'shadows' on the wall are real and are free and unencumbered by the deceit of those who have imprisoned in the cave.

They know no better, therefore they chase the chimera of their ideology, thinking that they have control over the shadows and can enforce this control.

The reality is, that the shadows are the only true reality while those who live in chains are to be pitied.

There is nothing the government nor a business can do to force an American to live in the servitude of the State. We do NOT recognize the government's mantra of "Papers please".

Just as it is unlawful to discriminate against a person of color in a business, so too will it be unlawful to demand a person's' papers'.

Those who believe otherwise need to behave themselvels.

Following lawful government iaw the Constitution is certainly the government's business to ensure that citizens comply. The document is not libertarian, and those who suggest otherwise are unable to understand the Constitution, America, or its history.

Not one of you has a lawful right to infect others with disease.

Hello shadow. How do you enjoy your chains today?

No one is infecting others. No one has the right to take a personal fear and limit the liberties of others.

The Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document, to be cherished in the good times only.

No one has the right to abuse the civil liberties of others.

Now behave yourself and come out of the cave.

You live in the shadows, and the caring Americans will live in the light of the constitution.

Darkwind, your light in your cave of shadows is flickering out.

ps: Plato is certainly associated, although with differences, to fascism.

I am not surprised this appeals to the far right and libertarian wings in America.

That is too funny shadow.

I support and defend the Constitution from the likes of you. I even swore an oath and served because I believe in so much that I'd lay down My life for it. However, I was raised in the light and the love of liberty and freedom from oppressive evils like a government that can force you to provide proof of their dictate to inject you with the harmful substance on the unfounded fears of those who live on their knees.

My light will never go out as long as there are freedom-loving people willing to stand up and spit in the face of oppressors like you.

ps. Plato is associated with Democracy, a proven and failed concept. However, that does not alter the truth of the allegory as it pertains to people like you. It really isn't a wonder that you see fascism in everything. It shines out at you from your mirror.

 

[Darkwind]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk. Read for understanding, please.

Says the little tinpot shadow. Every day, people are exposed to germs and diseases. EVERY DAY.

You cannot lock up everyone because you have a fear.