Dissecting John Stossel's Anti-Communist Lies

[Unkotare]

Because Cuba is in the shadow of a capitalist-run empire that is imposing economic sanctions, not to speak of the constant threats of war. Cuba was actually invaded by an American-funded, trained, and armed force in 1961, i.e. the bay of pigs invasion. The latest threats of war by the US government were about a year and a half ago during the Cuban protests. All of the obstacles created by what amounts to an empire are conveniently ignored. That's why you don't have the ideological luxury of appealing to any failures of a developing nation's attempt to implement socialism when that nation is being embargoed and constantly threatened with war, by a powerful world hegemon and bully-empire.

That you continue to live in my great nation proves categorically that you are an ignorant coward.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

The only way capitalism beats socialism is through sabotage, sanctions, embargoes, bombs, bullets..etc. This only works in the beginning but in the end, socialism will win.

Why hasn't socialism won yet?
The fact of the matter is, there will always be people who refuse to be subjects, and will always look for a better way. These people will work and outperform others, and will move on from them. The only way a socialist system can function, is to force the people to live at a pre-designated level. In the end the socialistic system falls as a sizeable percentage of the population refuses to be held to that level.
It happens every time.

 

[Red Front]

My definition of capitalism is accurate because wage labor is the foundation of capitalist production and profits.

Labor is the foundation of production under communism too. It just isn't as successful, because communism as an economic system is really bad at producing anything. Except misery.

We are in a world currently dominated by markets and capitalists,

Yes. Because the communist system collapsed.

Because the world's financial system is currently dominated by Western capitalist-run banks and systems of finance.

No decent commie-run banks? Weird.

OK, let me help you.

CAPITALISM:

​

Everything is produced primarily for the profit of a wealthy capitalist, rather than for its use. The bottom line of capitalist production is private capital accumulation (monetary gain), not providing products to consumers for the purpose of meeting their human needs (for the purpose of human consumption).

Under capitalism, the vast majority of human beings have to sell their lives to a capitalist employer (i.e. exploiter) for eight, twelve, or sixteen hours daily for a wage (a monetary payment). The capitalist employer owns the means of production (facilities, machinery, raw materials, vehicles, government registered and protected patents or licenses, permits, contracts. etc) and for as much as two full-time shifts of eight hours each (here in America and in the 3rd world people often work sixteen plus hours daily), owns the human labor as well provided those human workers want to eat and have a roof over their heads (most people feel a need to eat and have shelter hence they sell themselves to a capitalist).

Human beings are reduced by capitalist employers to a commodity and the means of production. The so-called "labor market" reflects this commodification and objectification (dehumanization, denigration) of human labor. The capitalist-employer class has an immense amount of leverage and power over their individual employees, not much less than masters over their slaves or feudal lords over their serfs.

The employer draws surplus value from his human labor by paying them less than they produce, in order to make a profit (employees often produce much more than what they are paid in wages). These human workers need an employer to eat and live. On the other hand, the employer needs the employees to produce everything for him and then buy the products that are produced by his own or another capitalist's employees (human workers).

The employer needs employees who are earning wages to buy the products that they are selling at the marketplace. Without employees making a wage, they don't have any paying consumers buying their products. In other words, without human wage labor, there is no market. Capitalism collapses without human wage labor.

I'm not going to go further into the dynamics of the relationship between employers and employees but let's just say that there is no democracy in that arrangement. The employees, which comprise 95% of the general population spend most of their waking hours in an absolute tyranny, without elections or much say or power over how their workplace is run (they also don't have much say if any on how their government is run either because capitalists control both the workplace and the political establishment with all of its institutions).

As technology advances, the work that human labor is being paid for (we call that "work" a "job"), is replaced by machines, and eventually, those machines become so advanced that they can do most if not all of the work that the human workers are being paid for (jobs are replaced with technology).

At a certain point, advanced technology forces society to adopt a new mode of production that doesn't rely on wage labor (human labor that gets paid a wage). Capitalism relies on wage labor or a waged (paid) human workforce, communism doesn't.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

OK, let's now describe communism according to Karl.

Communism is a stateless society (or a society with a very small state), with no socioeconomic classes or the need for money. Here is the Wikipedia definition of communism:

Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,[9] and the state.[10][11][12] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance, but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a constitutional socialist state followed by the withering away of the state.[13]

Source:

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Private property is any property that can be used to exploit others who don't own that needed property (private property creates the "haves" vs the "have-nots" with all of its troubles and large state apparatus). Communists make a distinction between private and personal property. Your home, motorcycle, combat rifle, and ammo, books, fruit of the looms, computer, toothbrush, are all your personal property. A factory or mine, or farmland (the means of production), is considered private property, hence it is owned by the community or "publicly owned".

There are two types of communism that can exist, according to Marxism. One is primitive, existing in hunter-gatherer societies where everyone has to organize labor for the primary, if not exclusive purpose of survival, rather than monetary gain or some other reason. Labor works together as a family or tribe, to produce the goods that they consume for the purpose of consuming them.

PRIMITIVE COMMUNISM (LOW TECH, NO AUTOMATION, A LOT OF WORK, SWEAT, AND HUMAN EFFORT)

The other type of communism that can exist is called "High Communism", and that's when production becomes so efficient that there is no longer much need for human labor. Human drudgery is replaced with high-tech machinery. In the 21st century, we have extremely powerful computers, automated systems, autonomous machines/robots/vehicles, artificial intelligence, and nanotechnology. etc, that can significantly replace human beings, in both menial and complex tasks.

​

Currently, the big money capitalist class (about 5% of the population), who own the means of production with all of the above technology (including government-protected patents, licenses. etc), controls the production of the goods that 95% of the population needs to consume to live.

If people can only survive with their wages, purchasing what they consume from a capitalist with what they earn at work, and automation technology eliminates their jobs, then human labor becomes worthless and people starve and are forced to live under a bridge.

Under capitalism, you can have warehouses full of food and people still starve because that food is inventoried for the purpose of being sold at the market, not for the purpose of feeding people and eliminating hunger. You can have homeless people when you have plenty of housing because people don't have money to buy or rent housing. You can have medical technology and medicine, including the cure for a disease, but people still die of that disease because they don't have the money or it's not profitable to provide people with treatment.

So what will happen when the capitalists have all of the automation technology in their possession, with all of the government-protected patents and licenses? A new form of slavery or feudalism is created. We can call it techno-feudalism, or Malthusian Techno-Slavery. Most of humanity becomes worthless and is consigned to the compost heap or the harems of the former capitalists who are now like gods surrounded by cladly dressed sex slaves. The lords and gods of production.

So the communist sees this and says:

" Hmmm, there's something seriously wrong here. How about we all own all of this advanced technology together and we produce everything that we need not for profit or money, but in order to consume and use those products? We organize production in such a way that everyone is no longer in scarcity, starving, or homeless, but rather well-fed and housed. We employ all supercomputers, robots, artificial intelligence, and autonomous vehicles. etc, to create a modern, 21st-century civilization where everyone has everything they need to live well and happy."

The above is a no-brainer, and it doesn't have to be called communism. You can call it whatever you want. Let's call it a RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY. No longer based on profits or private capital accumulation but rather to meet our needs. Only assholes like me who like to be a bit too blunt and are kind of fixated on the past, use scary, hated words before an American audience, like communism or socialism, but that's just because I can sometimes be a fucking tankie-troll. Let's call it something else here in America.

RBE - Resource Based Economy. ​

A modern, high-tech resource-based economy. Politically we would be democratic of course. We would establish democratically-run people's councils and workplaces that collaborate with a representative local, state, and federal government. The district councils elect their representatives to local, state, and federal legislative bodies. Elections are held always, under the discretion of the democratically-run councils. If a government official is incompetent or corrupt, they are "recalled" and subject to evaluation and replacement at any time.

We use computers to run all of the accounting, telling us exactly what and how much we need to mine, process, and produce. All of the logistical requirements to meet the needs of consumers would be calculated and planned by those supercomputers and human specialists. Every member of society will have a civic duty to work 20 hours weekly, five days a week, with two days off and two months of yearly leave (i.e. vacation). Tasks can vary from supervising robots to monitoring convoys of autonomous trucks with high-speed drones from a remote location.

What do people get in return for their labor? Money? A wage? No, the age of money and markets is dead, due to advanced, 21st-century automation technology. We are now living in a modern, high-tech, 21st-century resource-based economy, without material scarcity, and of course with plenty of democracy and freedom. People have more time and resources to do what they want to do.

So how do people get the food and everything else they like to use? The logistics of production, storage, and distribution are digitized and highly automated. So you walk into a store (i.e. distribution center), like Costco, with your smartphone and an app or/and with a card, and you take whatever you want within your account. You worked 20 hours last week, so you have a right and access to three gallons of milk, three pounds of beef, x amount of toilet paper, two pairs of new shoes every two weeks, three pens weekly, and two winter jackets monthly..etc.

The most recent USDA Food Availability data (2019) shows that the average American eats about 55 pounds of beef annually. That's about 0.15 lbs per day or 1lbs of beef per week.

This is America, we're going to be generous and free. Everyone is going to be well fed, fully stocked, with everything they could possibly want, within reason. What's within reason? Well we're always going to have a few knuckleheads and mentally disturbed hoarders, who are going to fill their closets, their whole house with shoes and pencil sharpeners. That's just the way it is and they will get away with it, for a while. Until they hoard to a point that it trips an alarm and they are asked to justify their hoarding to an artificial intelligence or human manager.

They're not in trouble, much less criminalized, but society should have some protection against people who hoard shit. So I have a right to two new pairs of shoes every two weeks, that's four pairs monthly. Society does that in order to make sure that I always have shoes. So the community is generous and always opts for abundance, always preferring that people have more than what they need, to avoid scarcity. So I have twenty pairs of shoes, and I haven't worn half of them this year, but that's OK. That's not hoarding, that's abundance.

However, the hoarder has 278 pairs of shoes, 499 can openers, ten microwaves, and 3754 rolls of toilet paper. His wife divorced him, and he lives alone, with his 40 gerbils running around the apartment. He got away with it for a while, because the system is generous and inclined always towards abundance, so it assumes that people will most likely take more than what they need but not to the level of batshit crazy hoarding. Eventually, the system will detect it, and then that person will have to explain why they're doing what they's doing.

The first time the person is caught hoarding, they will receive a warning and will be asked to stop hoarding. The second time, they will get a human manager telling them they can only get two pairs of shoes every six months now rather than every two weeks. That type of disciplinary action would have to be implemented to protect the community. There are no criminal charges, but he wouldn't be able to get the two bright purple boots he always gets next week. He's going to have to wait six months before he gets his two bright purple boots.

So I'm just giving you an idea of how a post-capitalist society and economy would function. There's no scarcity, we have plenty of freedom and time to do the things we like to do, and there are also plenty of opportunities for meaning, purpose, glory, adventure, heroism, and sacrifice (if that's what you want to do). All of that important human stuff that we value and cherish.

We would be living in a high-tech society, with a robust, advanced infrastructure. Our electric grid will be based on safe, clean nuclear energy, among other sources like solar, wind, and whatever else we can use. The foundation of our electric grid will be nuclear. Private cars will be electric and mostly autonomous. Public transit will consist of autonomous vehicles like electric city buses and high-speed trains (bullet trains). Our homes will be beautiful and modern, or you can keep the house you own now, which might already be beautiful and modern.

American post-capitalist, high-tech society, would have a democratic government (rule of the people), unlike the virtually unaccountable plutocratic, capitalist-run government regime we have today. There would be no more slavery, feudalism, or capitalism but rather a truly post-scarcity democratic-run society both politically and in the workplace. The authorities are elected and accountable to the people through their district councils.

Much of the systems of government management that are now handled by snarky, arrogant bureaucrats can be given to supercomputers and artificial intelligence. Automated and free of human error and corruption. They will receive data from field systems and determine the proper action and operational support. All of this of course will be under human supervision, but it will require less of it than before.

The above is just a basic, general description. But that is the solution to the elimination of wage labor. An RBE, Resourced Based Economy, doesn't need wage labor, it just employs the technology to produce everything people consume for the purpose of its use rather than profits or monetary gain. In this post-capitalist society there are no socioeconomic classes or the need for money.

The state remains but it's smaller and under the heel of the people through its district councils. No one starves, no scarcity, no lords, no slaves, no tyranny. FREEDOM, LIFE! Everyone has access to resources, modern healthcare, an education, meaningful work, art and entertainment, travel, exploration, adventure, you name it. It's all available, thanks to this way of organizing society.

AMERICAN SEA COLONIES

AMERICAN SPACE COLONIES

AMERICAN SPACE COLONISTS







​

 

[Red Front]

That you continue to live in my great nation proves categorically that you are an ignorant coward.

This is my nation too and it's all fucked up due to ignorant assholes like you.

 

[Unkotare]

This is my nation too ....

Clearly it is not.

 

[Red Front]

Why hasn't socialism won yet?
The fact of the matter is, there will always be people who refuse to be subjects, and will always look for a better way. These people will work and outperform others, and will move on from them. The only way a socialist system can function, is to force the people to live at a pre-designated level. In the end the socialistic system falls as a sizeable percentage of the population refuses to be held to that level.
It happens every time.

You're describing the end stage of capitalism when 95% of the population becomes worthless due to advanced automation and is consigned to slavery or the compost heap. The rich like myself have the money to own the technology, machinery, and facilities and we'll produce everything that we need and want without human wage labor. OK? Want that? I don't need you anymore. Under capitalism, your labor power, and your life is rendered worthless to me, a wealthy son of a capitalist born in opulence. If that's what you want, OK. I'm personally covered, I live on a family trust worth tens of millions. I have nothing to fear financially or resource-wise.

I have investments in gold, crypto, commodities, and plenty of real estate and liquidity. If you're one of the vast majority of people who needs to sell their labor to people like me, how are you going to live? We don't need you. Should humanity stop advancing technologically, in order to provide you with a job? Why? The capitalists will continue automating until you're completely erased. Hello, wake up. Do you really want indifferent, cold "survival of the fittest", Darwinian evolutionary "fuck you, croak"? Is that what you want?

Unlike some of the members of my socioeconomic class, I have a conscience. I don't want anyone turned to compost due to advanced automation. I want you to own the technology and means of production, with me. All I get are working-class people on this forum insulting and shitting on me. I will eventually just say "fuck it", let them become worthless and I and my family will survive and thrive. The members of my class will rule and eliminate the worthless masses of humanity that own no assets or power. We don't need you anymore, we have the automation technology to replace you.

 

[Red Front]

Clearly it is not.

It sure is asshole, I have my American passport and VA card to prove it, so go fuck yourself. You get out of my country and stop fucking it up.

 

[Red Front]

I'm done here, if anyone has any questions and is genuinely interested in what I wrote, PM me. The pessimists and cynics will continue shitting on everything I say but if you feel they've said something that "debunks" my perspective, just PM me for an answer. It's exhausting dealing with people who are bad actors of the wealthy class or their brainwashed tools. The deluded laborers are more gung-ho for capitalism (for their own slavery) than the capitalist themselves, who will just get rid of them. Amazing.

 

[surada]

How'd those national assets do under Castro?

Can they even grow sugar anymore? LOL!

The Soviets bought their sugar cane crop until the fall of the Soviet union. The US sugar beet lobby went after the sugar market in 1956. Of course the price of sugar skyrocketed. .. and we saw increase in fructose and artificial sweeteners.

 

[Ringo]

Why hasn't socialism won yet?

Even capitalism, which was born in the bowels of feudalism and coexisted with it at the same time, has known retreats and progressions. It took several hundred years for capitalism to win on a global scale. And for this, capitalism simply needed to replace the political power of the feudal lords with its own, bourgeois one.
Socialism is not born inside capitalism. Capitalism, by its development, prepares the conditions for arrival of socialism. But socialism must be built, built in a bourgeois environment, the environment of hostile countries. Construction can go at different rates, it can stop, but it is necessary.
Capitalism has no future. It threatens the existence of humanity, as it presupposes competition and wars, which in the nuclear age threaten the destruction of civilization.

 

[Markle]

Stossel Comes from Long Island, where he's a social butterfly. For all his "capitalism" hot air, when his 2.5 Mil Hamptons mansion was blown away years ago, he had no problem getting Gov't agencies to pay for the loss. Some say, he was "underinsured". He's the ultimate 'Bankster': "Socialism for me, capitalism for the peasants".

Is your ignorance feigned or real? I ask that because if you were informed you'd know that John Stossel bought the house then when it was destroyed by a hurricane, he had it rebuilt at government expense and wrote an article about how wasteful that was of the government. It was destroyed again, and the same thing happened.

He also bought a number of golf carts and paid nothing for them because of the government subsidies to buy an electric vehicle. He donated them all to charities.

Inform yourself, you'd be surprised by what you might learn. It really would aid you in not looking so foolish.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

OK, let me help you.

CAPITALISM:

View attachment 728600

View attachment 728602
​

Everything is produced primarily for the profit of a wealthy capitalist, rather than for its use. The bottom line of capitalist production is private capital accumulation (monetary gain), not providing products to consumers for the purpose of meeting their human needs (for the purpose of human consumption).

Under capitalism, the vast majority of human beings have to sell their lives to a capitalist employer (i.e. exploiter) for eight, twelve, or sixteen hours daily for a wage (a monetary payment). The capitalist employer owns the means of production (facilities, machinery, raw materials, vehicles, government registered and protected patents or licenses, permits, contracts. etc) and for as much as two full-time shifts of eight hours each (here in America and in the 3rd world people often work sixteen plus hours daily), owns the human labor as well provided those human workers want to eat and have a roof over their heads (most people feel a need to eat and have shelter hence they sell themselves to a capitalist).

Human beings are reduced by capitalist employers to a commodity and the means of production. The so-called "labor market" reflects this commodification and objectification (dehumanization, denigration) of human labor. The capitalist-employer class has an immense amount of leverage and power over their individual employees, not much less than masters over their slaves or feudal lords over their serfs.

The employer draws surplus value from his human labor by paying them less than they produce, in order to make a profit (employees often produce much more than what they are paid in wages). These human workers need an employer to eat and live. On the other hand, the employer needs the employees to produce everything for him and then buy the products that are produced by his own or another capitalist's employees (human workers).

The employer needs employees who are earning wages to buy the products that they are selling at the marketplace. Without employees making a wage, they don't have any paying consumers buying their products. In other words, without human wage labor, there is no market. Capitalism collapses without human wage labor.

I'm not going to go further into the dynamics of the relationship between employers and employees but let's just say that there is no democracy in that arrangement. The employees, which comprise 95% of the general population spend most of their waking hours in an absolute tyranny, without elections or much say or power over how their workplace is run (they also don't have much say if any on how their government is run either because capitalists control both the workplace and the political establishment with all of its institutions).

As technology advances, the work that human labor is being paid for (we call that "work" a "job"), is replaced by machines, and eventually, those machines become so advanced that they can do most if not all of the work that the human workers are being paid for (jobs are replaced with technology).

At a certain point, advanced technology forces society to adopt a new mode of production that doesn't rely on wage labor (human labor that gets paid a wage). Capitalism relies on wage labor or a waged (paid) human workforce, communism doesn't.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

OK, let's now describe communism according to Karl.

Communism is a stateless society (or a society with a very small state), with no socioeconomic classes or the need for money. Here is the Wikipedia definition of communism:

Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,[9] and the state.[10][11][12] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance, but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a constitutional socialist state followed by the withering away of the state.[13]

Source:

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Private property is any property that can be used to exploit others who don't own that needed property (private property creates the "haves" vs the "have-nots" with all of its troubles and large state apparatus). Communists make a distinction between private and personal property. Your home, motorcycle, combat rifle, and ammo, books, fruit of the looms, computer, toothbrush, are all your personal property. A factory or mine, or farmland (the means of production), is considered private property, hence it is owned by the community or "publicly owned".

There are two types of communism that can exist, according to Marxism. One is primitive, existing in hunter-gatherer societies where everyone has to organize labor for the primary, if not exclusive purpose of survival, rather than monetary gain or some other reason. Labor works together as a family or tribe, to produce the goods that they consume for the purpose of consuming them.

View attachment 728563​

View attachment 728566

PRIMITIVE COMMUNISM (LOW TECH, NO AUTOMATION, A LOT OF WORK, SWEAT, AND HUMAN EFFORT)

The other type of communism that can exist is called "High Communism", and that's when production becomes so efficient that there is no longer much need for human labor. Human drudgery is replaced with high-tech machinery. In the 21st century, we have extremely powerful computers, automated systems, autonomous machines/robots/vehicles, artificial intelligence, and nanotechnology. etc, that can significantly replace human beings, in both menial and complex tasks.

​

Currently, the big money capitalist class (about 5% of the population), who own the means of production with all of the above technology (including government-protected patents, licenses. etc), controls the production of the goods that 95% of the population needs to consume to live.

If people can only survive with their wages, purchasing what they consume from a capitalist with what they earn at work, and automation technology eliminates their jobs, then human labor becomes worthless and people starve and are forced to live under a bridge.

Under capitalism, you can have warehouses full of food and people still starve because that food is inventoried for the purpose of being sold at the market, not for the purpose of feeding people and eliminating hunger. You can have homeless people when you have plenty of housing because people don't have money to buy or rent housing. You can have medical technology and medicine, including the cure for a disease, but people still die of that disease because they don't have the money or it's not profitable to provide people with treatment.

So what will happen when the capitalists have all of the automation technology in their possession, with all of the government-protected patents and licenses? A new form of slavery or feudalism is created. We can call it techno-feudalism, or Malthusian Techno-Slavery. Most of humanity becomes worthless and is consigned to the compost heap or the harems of the former capitalists who are now like gods surrounded by cladly dressed sex slaves. The lords and gods of production.

So the communist sees this and says:

" Hmmm, there's something seriously wrong here. How about we all own all of this advanced technology together and we produce everything that we need not for profit or money, but in order to consume and use those products? We organize production in such a way that everyone is no longer in scarcity, starving, or homeless, but rather well-fed and housed. We employ all supercomputers, robots, artificial intelligence, and autonomous vehicles. etc, to create a modern, 21st-century civilization where everyone has everything they need to live well and happy."

The above is a no-brainer, and it doesn't have to be called communism. You can call it whatever you want. Let's call it a RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY. No longer based on profits or private capital accumulation but rather to meet our needs. Only assholes like me who like to be a bit too blunt and are kind of fixated on the past, use scary, hated words before an American audience, like communism or socialism, but that's just because I can sometimes be a fucking tankie-troll. Let's call it something else here in America.

RBE - Resource Based Economy. ​

A modern, high-tech resource-based economy. Politically we would be democratic of course. We would establish democratically-run people's councils and workplaces that collaborate with a representative local, state, and federal government. The district councils elect their representatives to local, state, and federal legislative bodies. Elections are held always, under the discretion of the democratically-run councils. If a government official is incompetent or corrupt, they are "recalled" and subject to evaluation and replacement at any time.

We use computers to run all of the accounting, telling us exactly what and how much we need to mine, process, and produce. All of the logistical requirements to meet the needs of consumers would be calculated and planned by those supercomputers and human specialists. Every member of society will have a civic duty to work 20 hours weekly, five days a week, with two days off and two months of yearly leave (i.e. vacation). Tasks can vary from supervising robots to monitoring convoys of autonomous trucks with high-speed drones from a remote location.

What do people get in return for their labor? Money? A wage? No, the age of money and markets is dead, due to advanced, 21st-century automation technology. We are now living in a modern, high-tech, 21st-century resource-based economy, without material scarcity, and of course with plenty of democracy and freedom. People have more time and resources to do what they want to do.

So how do people get the food and everything else they like to use? The logistics of production, storage, and distribution are digitized and highly automated. So you walk into a store (i.e. distribution center), like Costco, with your smartphone and an app or/and with a card, and you take whatever you want within your account. You worked 20 hours last week, so you have a right and access to three gallons of milk, three pounds of beef, x amount of toilet paper, two pairs of new shoes every two weeks, three pens weekly, and two winter jackets monthly..etc.

The most recent USDA Food Availability data (2019) shows that the average American eats about 55 pounds of beef annually. That's about 0.15 lbs per day or 1lbs of beef per week.

This is America, we're going to be generous and free. Everyone is going to be well fed, fully stocked, with everything they could possibly want, within reason. What's within reason? Well we're always going to have a few knuckleheads and mentally disturbed hoarders, who are going to fill their closets, their whole house with shoes and pencil sharpeners. That's just the way it is and they will get away with it, for a while. Until they hoard to a point that it trips an alarm and they are asked to justify their hoarding to an artificial intelligence or human manager.

They're not in trouble, much less criminalized, but society should have some protection against people who hoard shit. So I have a right to two new pairs of shoes every two weeks, that's four pairs monthly. Society does that in order to make sure that I always have shoes. So the community is generous and always opts for abundance, always preferring that people have more than what they need, to avoid scarcity. So I have twenty pairs of shoes, and I haven't worn half of them this year, but that's OK. That's not hoarding, that's abundance.

However, the hoarder has 278 pairs of shoes, 499 can openers, ten microwaves, and 3754 rolls of toilet paper. His wife divorced him, and he lives alone, with his 40 gerbils running around the apartment. He got away with it for a while, because the system is generous and inclined always towards abundance, so it assumes that people will most likely take more than what they need but not to the level of batshit crazy hoarding. Eventually, the system will detect it, and then that person will have to explain why they're doing what they's doing.

The first time the person is caught hoarding, they will receive a warning and will be asked to stop hoarding. The second time, they will get a human manager telling them they can only get two pairs of shoes every six months now rather than every two weeks. That type of disciplinary action would have to be implemented to protect the community. There are no criminal charges, but he wouldn't be able to get the two bright purple boots he always gets next week. He's going to have to wait six months before he gets his two bright purple boots.

So I'm just giving you an idea of how a post-capitalist society and economy would function. There's no scarcity, we have plenty of freedom and time to do the things we like to do, and there are also plenty of opportunities for meaning, purpose, glory, adventure, heroism, and sacrifice (if that's what you want to do). All of that important human stuff that we value and cherish.

We would be living in a high-tech society, with a robust, advanced infrastructure. Our electric grid will be based on safe, clean nuclear energy, among other sources like solar, wind, and whatever else we can use. The foundation of our electric grid will be nuclear. Private cars will be electric and mostly autonomous. Public transit will consist of autonomous vehicles like electric city buses and high-speed trains (bullet trains). Our homes will be beautiful and modern, or you can keep the house you own now, which might already be beautiful and modern.

American post-capitalist, high-tech society, would have a democratic government (rule of the people), unlike the virtually unaccountable plutocratic, capitalist-run government regime we have today. There would be no more slavery, feudalism, or capitalism but rather a truly post-scarcity democratic-run society both politically and in the workplace. The authorities are elected and accountable to the people through their district councils.

Much of the systems of government management that are now handled by snarky, arrogant bureaucrats can be given to supercomputers and artificial intelligence. Automated and free of human error and corruption. They will receive data from field systems and determine the proper action and operational support. All of this of course will be under human supervision, but it will require less of it than before.

The above is just a basic, general description. But that is the solution to the elimination of wage labor. An RBE, Resourced Based Economy, doesn't need wage labor, it just employs the technology to produce everything people consume for the purpose of its use rather than profits or monetary gain. In this post-capitalist society there are no socioeconomic classes or the need for money.

The state remains but it's smaller and under the heel of the people through its district councils. No one starves, no scarcity, no lords, no slaves, no tyranny. FREEDOM, LIFE! Everyone has access to resources, modern healthcare, an education, meaningful work, art and entertainment, travel, exploration, adventure, you name it. It's all available, thanks to this way of organizing society.

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Communism

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The employer draws surplus value from his human labor by paying them less than they produce,

You could pay them more than they produce, but who will pay them after you go bankrupt?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm not going to go further into the dynamics of the relationship between employers and employees but let's just say that there is no democracy in that arrangement.

Democracy under Cuban communism........

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Soviets bought their sugar cane crop until the fall of the Soviet union. The US sugar beet lobby went after the sugar market in 1956. Of course the price of sugar skyrocketed. .. and we saw increase in fructose and artificial sweeteners.

How much sugar are they producing now?

 

[hadit]

You're describing the end stage of capitalism when 95% of the population becomes worthless due to advanced automation and is consigned to slavery or the compost heap. The rich like myself have the money to own the technology, machinery, and facilities and we'll produce everything that we need and want without human wage labor. OK? Want that? I don't need you anymore. Under capitalism, your labor power, and your life is rendered worthless to me, a wealthy son of a capitalist born in opulence. If that's what you want, OK. I'm personally covered, I live on a family trust worth tens of millions. I have nothing to fear financially or resource-wise.

I have investments in gold, crypto, commodities, and plenty of real estate and liquidity. If you're one of the vast majority of people who needs to sell their labor to people like me, how are you going to live? We don't need you. Should humanity stop advancing technologically, in order to provide you with a job? Why? The capitalists will continue automating until you're completely erased. Hello, wake up. Do you really want indifferent, cold "survival of the fittest", Darwinian evolutionary "fuck you, croak"? Is that what you want?

Unlike some of the members of my socioeconomic class, I have a conscience. I don't want anyone turned to compost due to advanced automation. I want you to own the technology and means of production, with me. All I get are working-class people on this forum insulting and shitting on me. I will eventually just say "fuck it", let them become worthless and I and my family will survive and thrive. The members of my class will rule and eliminate the worthless masses of humanity that own no assets or power. We don't need you anymore, we have the automation technology to replace you.

That's fine. Why haven't you then divided up your ownership of the means of production and given a bunch of people equal shares in them? You aren't a selfish Capitalist, keeping it all to yourself, are you?

What is stopping you from doing what you're advocating everyone else do?

 

[Burgermeister]

It's not how you start the race, it's how you finish it that matters. It took centuries for capitalism to replace chattel slavery and feudalism, and it will take time for socialism and then communism to replace capitalism. It's just a matter of time.

You are winning. I concede that.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

You're describing the end stage of capitalism when 95% of the population becomes worthless due to advanced automation and is consigned to slavery or the compost heap. The rich like myself have the money to own the technology, machinery, and facilities and we'll produce everything that we need and want without human wage labor. OK? Want that? I don't need you anymore. Under capitalism, your labor power, and your life is rendered worthless to me, a wealthy son of a capitalist born in opulence. If that's what you want, OK. I'm personally covered, I live on a family trust worth tens of millions. I have nothing to fear financially or resource-wise.

I have investments in gold, crypto, commodities, and plenty of real estate and liquidity. If you're one of the vast majority of people who needs to sell their labor to people like me, how are you going to live? We don't need you. Should humanity stop advancing technologically, in order to provide you with a job? Why? The capitalists will continue automating until you're completely erased. Hello, wake up. Do you really want indifferent, cold "survival of the fittest", Darwinian evolutionary "fuck you, croak"? Is that what you want?

Unlike some of the members of my socioeconomic class, I have a conscience. I don't want anyone turned to compost due to advanced automation. I want you to own the technology and means of production, with me. All I get are working-class people on this forum insulting and shitting on me. I will eventually just say "fuck it", let them become worthless and I and my family will survive and thrive. The members of my class will rule and eliminate the worthless masses of humanity that own no assets or power. We don't need you anymore, we have the automation technology to replace you.

Thanks for the admission that you are a gigantic hypocrite! Lol!!

 

[Unkotare]

It sure is asshole, I have my American passport ....

You may have a passport and undeserved legal status, but you're no American.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm done here,.....

You were done with the first post, kid.