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Realizing that hospitals spend their revenues is relying on faith? Sure, LOL!
No believing that a $137 markup on an IV bag that costs less than $1 somehow will trickle down into the economy is the faith I'm mocking.
No one is going to die from a burst appendix. Hospitals are compelled to provide emergency treatment. REAL health insurance does and should cover that. THAT is what insurance is. Literally, you pay x dollars so that an insurance company will indemnify you for a future risk.
Exactly. That's why Obamacare covering pre-existing conditions means it isn't insurance any more.
So it doesn't insure you from financial ruin? Then what does insurance do, then?
Do you? Because what we have in this country by and large is not health insurance, they are health care plans and that's why they are so expensive. Big difference
???? Health insurance plans, you mean? There's health care, which is your doctor performing a procedure on you, and there's health insurance, which serves as the mechanism by which your provider is reimbursed for performing that procedure.
Conservatives don't know or understand the difference.
Realizing that hospitals spend their revenues is relying on faith? Sure, LOL!
No believing that a $137 markup on an IV bag that costs less than $1 somehow will trickle down into the economy is the faith I'm mocking.
And this is needed only a small percentage of the time.
This gets overblown because there are people like some on this board, who can't stand that doctors make good money.
Health insurance is like anything else, if you can afford it, you get it and reap the benefits of it. If you can't afford it, you're not entitled to it, so you don't get it. You can also choose (or should be able to choose) not to buy it, and if you get sick and need health care, pay for it out of your own pocket. If you can't pay for it, oh well. You go broke.
So it's real easy to say this when you're healthy and not incurring medical costs, but to force someone into bankruptcy for treatment of something out of their control makes no sense. It's fucking stupid, actually.
Exactly. That's why Obamacare covering pre-existing conditions means it isn't insurance any more.
So it doesn't insure you from financial ruin? Then what does insurance do, then?
And who says who can afford and who can't ?
I've seen far to many situations where won't pay hospital bills while doing things like taking international vacations.
And this is needed only a small percentage of the time.
Prior to the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt being $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. They had those catastrophic plans you guys seem to think were so great...until you hit your lifetime cap, which all catastrophic plans had. So they weren't "catastrophic" plans at all. They were a rip-off.
And who says who can afford and who can't ?
I've seen far to many situations where won't pay hospital bills while doing things like taking international vacations.
So, your anecdotal, third-hand account of something is not a sufficient piece of evidence to enter into this debate. We know the toll health care takes on people because before the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt of $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. Mostly those "catastrophic plans" you think are such a steal...until you hit your lifetime cap. So they're not really catastrophic plans at all. They're a rip-off.
It's not the same thing.
And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..
You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.
If Healthcare providers would start working to cure patients verses merely treat patients so they can keep them long term cash cows you may have an argument but the fact is you don't as the majority of the medical community now merely treats and does not attempt to cure. It works out for all those working to get a cut and most ignorant dumb asses don't have a clue they just willing take whatever shit the current medical establishment is willing to toss out there for them.No! That is what you in your abject stupidity were talking about. I was talking about a payment plan.
Well, to be fair you said "health care plan". But OK...even though "payment plans" existed pre-ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related with the average debt at $17K. And of those folks, 75% of them had insurance (mostly catastrophic plans with lifetime caps). So putting someone on a payment plan didn't suddenly prevent them from filing bankruptcy.
Do you understand what a payment plan is? Or, do they garnish your fucking wages when you buy a car? You asshole!
They would garnish your wages if you didn't pay your car loan back and took you to court. Which is what health care providers did for unpaid medical bills before the ACA.
The hospital takes $137 and hides it in the vault? Is that your belief?
That money never leaves the hospital? Never ever?
Who are you to decide if it is out of their control.
You think there isn't a good reason for bankruptcy ?
And who says who can afford and who can't ?
I've seen far to many situations where won't pay hospital bills while doing things like taking international vacations.
So, your anecdotal, third-hand account of something is not a sufficient piece of evidence to enter into this debate. We know the toll health care takes on people because before the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt of $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. Mostly those "catastrophic plans" you think are such a steal...until you hit your lifetime cap. So they're not really catastrophic plans at all. They're a rip-off.
It's not the same thing.
It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.
And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..
It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.
You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.
All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from
It's not the same thing.
It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.
And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..
It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.
You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.
All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from Elizabeth Rosenthall's NYT article from December 2nd, 2013:
:
It may protect you from financial ruin. It is no longer insurance.
It's a way to spread risk.
1000 people pay in, maybe 10 need treatment for something serious.
The hospital takes $137 and hides it in the vault? Is that your belief?
That money never leaves the hospital? Never ever?
Wages stagnate for workers as profits for hospitals and insurance companies soar. So yes, they are holding onto that cash. Maybe they're stashing it overseas in Cayman Islands accounts. Or maybe they're just paying it to top executives in the forms of huge bonuses and compensation. Now comes the part where you say those wealthy executives will somehow spend the money in the economy, while also saying that you don't believe in "trickle down".
To do what? Prevent financial ruin. Again, this is what I'm talking about when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, don't know what health insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to health care.
It's not the same thing.
It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.
And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..
It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.
You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.
All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from Elizabeth Rosenthall's NYT article from December 2nd, 2013:
