Do Conservatives know what health insurance is?

[Toddsterpatriot]

It may protect you from financial ruin. It is no longer insurance.

But you just said it was in an earlier post. So this is what I am talking about when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, don't know what health insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to health care.

It's a way to spread risk.

To do what? Prevent financial ruin. Again, this is what I'm talking about when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, don't know what health insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to health care.

1000 people pay in, maybe 10 need treatment for something serious.

But you don't know that. It could be 10, it could be all 1000. You don't know. And on top of that, you also don't know what medical needs you or anyone else will have day-to-day, so you have insurance to insure you against financial ruin in the event you do have medical needs. So you are simultaneously saying insurance doesn't protect you from financial ruin, while saying it protects you from financial ruin.

And that is why the cognitive dissonance is strong with you.

But you just said it was in an earlier post.

In an earlier post I said it wasn't insurance. Because it isn't.

To do what? Prevent financial ruin.

Welfare to prevent financial ruin is not insurance. It's welfare.

But you don't know that. It could be 10, it could be all 1000. You don't know.

Insurance companies and their actuaries have a pretty good, but not perfect, idea of how many and how much it will cost.

So you are simultaneously saying insurance doesn't protect you from financial ruin, while saying it protects you from financial ruin.

Insurance can definitely protect you from financial ruin.

Getting Obamacare after a cancer diagnosis can also protect you from financial ruin, by stealing the premiums others have already paid into your pool. That still doesn't make Obamacare insurance.

And that is why the cognitive dissonance is strong with you

Pointing out your errors isn't cognitive dissonance.

 

[The Derp]

More bullshit from the board bullshit artist.

As usual, you're wrong. But being wrong is standard for you guys. You say things off the top of your head, then when you get corrected you get all defensive and whiny. Stop being wrong all the time and you won't have to feel shitty about yourself.

17K isn't catastrophic.

First of all, that was the average bankruptcy. And secondly, $17K is catastrophic if 60% of all bankruptcies pre-ACA were medical related and 75% of those folks had insurance. The problem is that you guys have no conception of that because you're fortunate enough to not have experienced it. So you think that gives you the right to judge others. Well, I'm judging you now of being a know-nothing who just reacts to things instead of giving them thought.

It's close to what you shell out every year for a Bronze plan.

Not so, depending on your income and how much health care costs you incur. If your income qualifies you for subsidies, which most of those on the exchanges do receive, you're not spending that much out of your own pocket. You're only spending that much if you're actually incurring those costs. Not everyone on a Bronze plan is paying $17K a year.

Catastrophic plans were there for the 100K issues and they worked fine.

No, they dind't "work fine" as 45% of people who filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills had insurance. A catastrophic plan is a rip-off because they all universally had lifetime caps. So what do you think happens when you reach the lifetime cap? You get screwed. That's what 45% of people filing for bankruptcy faced pre-ACA. That's a shitload by any metric.

Calling them a rip off is just the ploy of you and the others who were so caught off guard when our liar and chief got caught with his pants down. Nobody every said a word about them until people lost them and lost their doctors too.

People were saying plenty about them, you just weren't paying attention.

It's to bad you can't be less transparent in your lies.

I provide links and charts for everything. You guys don't. You're the ones who lack transparency.

 

[iceberg]

if i have to answer that, you're not going to understand.

Because your answer will be nonsense.

to you, i'm sure. you have an agenda to fight anyone who disagrees with you. i've yet to see you be presented with an opposing view or just being wrong and going "wow, my bad".

so when i see you off on some DERP nonsense you're just trolling around your emotional ID and looking for validation in either agreement or insults to the other side for not being as clever as you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The hospital takes $137 and hides it in the vault? Is that your belief?
That money never leaves the hospital? Never ever?

Wages stagnate for workers as profits for hospitals and insurance companies soar. So yes, they are holding onto that cash. Maybe they're stashing it overseas in Cayman Islands accounts. Or maybe they're just paying it to top executives in the forms of huge bonuses and compensation. Now comes the part where you say those wealthy executives will somehow spend the money in the economy, while also saying that you don't believe in "trickle down".

Wages stagnate for workers as profits for hospitals and insurance companies soar. So yes, they are holding onto that cash.

In the basement? Never to touch the consumer economy again? LOL!

Maybe they're stashing it overseas in Cayman Islands accounts.

Yeah, sure thing sparky.

Or maybe they're just paying it to top executives in the forms of huge bonuses and compensation.

Oh no! I guess mean rich guy income and taxes never touch the consumer economy again?

Now comes the part where you say those wealthy executives will somehow spend the money in the economy,

Of course not. When mean rich guys aren't hiding cash in the hospital vault, they're hiding it in their own vault.
Never spending. Never hiring. Never investing.

So, whatever you do, don't let them give you an overpriced IV bag...........

 

[The Derp]

You've provided no evidence. Your 60% number does not differetiate between medical and non medical costs.

So this is another major problem with you people...you don't bother to read things when they are given to you. That's because you're too afraid to read something that will shatter your world-view. So I get that. But really, if you're interested in educating yourself so you don't look dumb, you should do yourself a favor and read links given to you.

From the second paragraph of the link (proving you didn't open the link):

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007​

No mention of an IV bag costing less than 1$.

So again, you don't open links when given to you. The cost of the IV bag is literally in the middle of the fucking article in a chart. The source is the California Pacific Medical Center chargemaster; Health Care Blue Book; CVS in San Francisco. So you didn't open the link, did you? If you did, you would have seen the chart. So you lied to me. You lied to everyone on the board.

California...that far right wing bastion...has high medical costs.

Sigh...the example of CPMC was used to illustrate the point in the article you didn't read, as it's what their chargemaster dictates, and every provider has their own chargemaster.

Stitches where I live...don't cost but 15% of your NY bills.

And those stitches are still wildly inflated by whatever the provider determines in its chargemaster. You may think you're getting a discount, but you're not. You're paying the same price the insurer pays. So they give you a fake price, expecting you to bargain, and you end up bargaining down to what the price in their secret little ledger says anyway. A price exponentially inflated in order to make tons of profits. Then you slog away, thinking you got a deal while the provider laughs behind your back at how much of a sucker you are.

 

[The Derp]

If Healthcare providers would start working to cure patients verses merely treat patients so they can keep them long term cash cows you may have an argument but the fact is you don't as the majority of the medical community now merely treats and does not attempt to cure. It works out for all those working to get a cut and most ignorant dumb asses don't have a clue they just willing take whatever shit the current medical establishment is willing to toss out there for them.

Health care providers make tons of money now, so they have no incentive to change the system.

 

[The Derp]

All economists agreed that cost reductions were due to the sluggish economy.

Yet, the economy has since recovered and premiums are still not rising at rates greater than they were pre-ACA.

 

[The Derp]

In an earlier post I said it wasn't insurance. Because it isn't.

So health insurance doesn't insure you. OK. LOL.

Welfare to prevent financial ruin is not insurance. It's welfare.

You don't seem to fully grasp what health insurance is. Which is the point of my OP. You pay $200 a month in premiums, which would amount to $2,400 a year. Yet you get appendicitis and the cost to have an appendectomy is $33,000. You don't pay that $33,000 cost, the insurer administrates it from the premium pool you paid into. That's welfare? How so?

Insurance companies and their actuaries have a pretty good, but not perfect, idea of how many and how much it will cost.

No they don't. They don't have any clue. And that's why pre-ACA they would routinely deny care, spike premiums, or kick people off their insurance. All to serve their bottom line and the share price. You truly don't know what you're talking about. You don't even kinda know. Everything seems to be reactionary, right off the top of your head. Like you haven't given any thought to this at all. It fuckin' shows, too.

IInsurance can definitely protect you from financial ruin.

Except when you say it's welfare, which seems to change depending on how your argument is faring.

Getting Obamacare after a cancer diagnosis can also protect you from financial ruin, by stealing the premiums others have already paid into your pool. That still doesn't make Obamacare insurance.

But you're paying those premiums too. So say you pay $200 a month for your insurance plan through the Exchange. That's $2,400 a year. You get a burst appendix, and the appendectomy costs you $33,000. Your insurance covers that. So you're saying that you're stealing from someone else's premiums to pay for your appendectomy because you only paid $2,400 a year in premiums.

That's the stupidest fucking argument I've read from you ever. And that says a lot.

Pointing out your errors isn't cognitive dissonance.

LOL! So here's the totality of your argument; health insurance is welfare, except when it isn't, but it is, except when you say it isn't, which is all the time while at the same time saying it is. Even though it isn't. Except when it is. LOL!

 

[The Derp]

to you, i'm sure. you have an agenda to fight anyone who disagrees with you..

Oh please! This isn't you disagreeing with me...this is you refusing to accept facts. I am merely the vessel by which these facts are brought to your attention. Cut out the victim-hood and whining. This isn't a debate between opinions, this is you refusing to accept facts because of your fucking ego. Maybe you should just take the hint from your contemporaries since life clearly didn't turn out the way you had hoped it would, and people make you feel like shit because of it.

i've yet to see you be presented with an opposing view or just being wrong and going "wow, my bad".

I have admitted I'm wrong before on other threads. Your opposing view is not valid because you refuse to accept facts. You're under the mistaken impression we are debating opinions. We're not. You're not even at the stage where you can formulate an opinion because you refuse to accept facts. Which means all this shit you are writing is just an exercise in self-gratification. Truly masturbatory in every sense of the word.

It's like you expect a participation trophy or something because you've managed to form a half-assed opinion about something you've given half-assed effort towards thinking about.

 

[The Derp]

In the basement? Never to touch the consumer economy again? LOL!

Probably not. If it's stashed overseas, it's just sitting there not doing anything. If it's given to top executives, they stash it overseas, and do nothing with it. Just like I said before, this is the part of the thread where you say they will trickle-down while simultaneously saying you don't believe in trickle-down. It's just you talking in circles...or if you prefer, mental masturbation.

Oh no! I guess mean rich guy income and taxes never touch the consumer economy again?

Not really. As we learned from the Bush Tax Cuts, when given extra income, the wealthy save it, they don't spend it. So you say you don't believe trickle-down is real, yet here you are arguing that very thing.

That's why I call you out for cognitive dissonance. And that's why your posts are just attempts at self-gratification so you don't have to come to terms with the fact that you're not as clever or informed as you think you are.

 

[iceberg]

to you, i'm sure. you have an agenda to fight anyone who disagrees with you..

Oh please! This isn't you disagreeing with me...this is you refusing to accept facts.

wow - i stand corrected. you're an open sponge ready for the wetness of new ideas and alternative thinking.

what a load of horse shit. i didn't even bother reading the rest of your crap when you come off as ME RIGHT YOU WRONG AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYOUHUSHNOWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

it's old. doesn't work. and makes you look more the fool than you think you don't look now.

 

[The Derp]

More clueless crap It does not prevent financial ruin.

If you had to pay $33,000 to have your appendix removed, that's financial ruin for most Americans. You pay $200 a month in health insurance so that doesn't happen to you. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say you don't know what health insurance is, don't know what insurance companies do, and don't know how any of it relates to your actual health care.

It guards against it, but there are no absolute protections.

So moving the goalposts again! I sense a pattern with you guys. So it "guards against it" but doesn't "protect against it". LOL. OK.

You know what you want insurance to be. And it isn't that.

That is exactly what health insurance is. You guys just don't seem to grasp it.

 

[The Derp]

wow - i stand corrected. you're an open sponge ready for the wetness of new ideas and alternative thinking.

I am only interested in the facts. As my signature says, I'm a truth addict. Your bullshit is not truth. What you claim you experience is not truth. What you claim others experience that have relayed those things to you anecdotally is not truth. The right-wing, by and large, isn't interested in truth. All they're interested in is creating a fog of controversy because they lack the intelligence, effort, and creativity to solve many of the problems facing this country.

what a load of horse shit. i didn't even bother reading the rest of your crap

We all know you don't like to read. You didn't need to confirm that for us. And I'm not here to protect your ego. Get the fuck over yourself.

 

[iceberg]

wow - i stand corrected. you're an open sponge ready for the wetness of new ideas and alternative thinking.

I am only interested in the facts. As my signature says, I'm a truth addict. Your bullshit is not truth. What you claim you experience is not truth. What you claim others experience that have relayed those things to you anecdotally is not truth. The right-wing, by and large, isn't interested in truth. All they're interested in is creating a fog of controversy because they lack the intelligence, effort, and creativity to solve many of the problems facing this country.

what a load of horse shit. i didn't even bother reading the rest of your crap

We all know you don't like to read. You didn't need to confirm that for us. And I'm not here to protect your ego. Get the fuck over yourself.

that's all i'm interested in but you don't come to those usually on your own. it's research, talk with others, and an open mind.

i don't like to read the self-indulgent ramblings of someone who takes any counter-thought as bullshit.

that's what you do so whats the point of reading yet another post doing that?

 

[The Derp]

that's all i'm interested in but you don't come to those usually on your own. it's research, talk with others, and an open mind.

You:

a) refuse to do the research even when I happily and nicely provide you with sourced, credible links you don't open.

b) "talk with others" which is really just code for "making shit up so I don't have to do a)".

c) have a mind so open your brains have spilled out.

The problem, and it's not just you so don't take it personally, is that Conservatives simply are too lazy to actually have an informed opinion about anything. Then you get defensive and so fucking whiny when your half-assed opinion is contested. Like I'm supposed to coddle you, even as you arrogantly bray your nonsense on the boards. Why the fuck should I? You don't seem to give a shit that you piss people off by spouting nonsense, so why should I give a shit that I make you feel bad by providing you with truth that runs counter to your conventional "wisdom" (and I use the term "wisdom" here very generously, proving I am a nice guy after all)? Any thoughts on that?

i don't like to read the self-indulgent ramblings of someone who takes any counter-thought as bullshit.

"Counter-thought" would imply you've actually given it thought. Jury's still out on that one. You obviously haven't given it any thought because you haven't done the research, which would make "talking" to imaginary friends moot. My mind is not opened to people who haven't bothered to give thought to anything. My mind is not opened to people too lazy to do the work. My mind is not opened to people who refuse personal responsibility and facts. My mind is closed tight to people like that because I'm frankly tired of having to read the same stupid shit over and over. At this point, there's no excuse anymore for being uninformed. It's an active choice you make. Making the choice to be uninformed isn't a choice I respect, nor is it a choice that has any validity. It's just laziness and sloppiness. Grow up.

 

[iceberg]

you did it again.

wrote up a lot of shit i'm not going to read. you see, until i see that you will listen to counter points and not just insult people who don't agree with you, i see no need to read all your shit and even try to have an adult type conversation with a "derp".

get mad all you want but as long as you come out being a dick, i'm going to stop reading anything else.

your call, hos. have fun.

 

[The Derp]

you did it again.

What better way to prove you're not a lazy, good-for-nothing contrarian than by proclaiming you aren't going to read a response? Thanks for proving my point. You should read it, even though it makes you feel bad about yourself. Or you can just live in denial and delusion, but you're never going to shake those reactions you have that make you feel like shit for not knowing what you're saying most of the time.

wrote up a lot of shit i'm not going to read. you see, until i see that you will listen to counter points and not just insult people who don't agree with you, i see no need to read all your shit and even try to have an adult type conversation with a "derp".

Counter-points would imply that some thought was given to them. You haven't done that. Your counter-arguments are not thoughtful. The first thing you said you would do is research, yet when provided with that you ignore it. Then you feign outrage and offense so you can skate away from the debate without admitting you're full of shit, even though you are.

get mad all you want but as long as you come out being a dick, i'm going to stop reading anything else.your call, hos. have fun.

Such a snowflake!

 

[iceberg]

you did it again.

What better way to prove you're not a lazy, good-for-nothing contrarian than by proclaiming you aren't going to read a response? Thanks for proving my point. You should read it, even though it makes you feel bad about yourself. Or you can just live in denial and delusion, but you're never going to shake those reactions you have that make you feel like shit for not knowing what you're saying most of the time.

wrote up a lot of shit i'm not going to read. you see, until i see that you will listen to counter points and not just insult people who don't agree with you, i see no need to read all your shit and even try to have an adult type conversation with a "derp".

Counter-points would imply that some thought was given to them. You haven't done that. Your counter-arguments are not thoughtful. The first thing you said you would do is research, yet when provided with that you ignore it. Then you feign outrage and offense so you can skate away from the debate without admitting you're full of shit, even though you are.

get mad all you want but as long as you come out being a dick, i'm going to stop reading anything else.your call, hos. have fun.

Such a snowflake!

whatever.

i've put thought to posts to you before and you dance around and scream at people like you or they are 12. i'm not 12, so i'm not going to talk to someone who acts that way.

have fun but i'm out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In an earlier post I said it wasn't insurance. Because it isn't.

So health insurance doesn't insure you. OK. LOL.

Welfare to prevent financial ruin is not insurance. It's welfare.

You don't seem to fully grasp what health insurance is. Which is the point of my OP. You pay $200 a month in premiums, which would amount to $2,400 a year. Yet you get appendicitis and the cost to have an appendectomy is $33,000. You don't pay that $33,000 cost, the insurer administrates it from the premium pool you paid into. That's welfare? How so?

Insurance companies and their actuaries have a pretty good, but not perfect, idea of how many and how much it will cost.

No they don't. They don't have any clue. And that's why pre-ACA they would routinely deny care, spike premiums, or kick people off their insurance. All to serve their bottom line and the share price. You truly don't know what you're talking about. You don't even kinda know. Everything seems to be reactionary, right off the top of your head. Like you haven't given any thought to this at all. It fuckin' shows, too.

IInsurance can definitely protect you from financial ruin.

Except when you say it's welfare, which seems to change depending on how your argument is faring.

Getting Obamacare after a cancer diagnosis can also protect you from financial ruin, by stealing the premiums others have already paid into your pool. That still doesn't make Obamacare insurance.

But you're paying those premiums too. So say you pay $200 a month for your insurance plan through the Exchange. That's $2,400 a year. You get a burst appendix, and the appendectomy costs you $33,000. Your insurance covers that. So you're saying that you're stealing from someone else's premiums to pay for your appendectomy because you only paid $2,400 a year in premiums.

That's the stupidest fucking argument I've read from you ever. And that says a lot.

Pointing out your errors isn't cognitive dissonance.

LOL! So here's the totality of your argument; health insurance is welfare, except when it isn't, but it is, except when you say it isn't, which is all the time while at the same time saying it is. Even though it isn't. Except when it is. LOL!

So health insurance doesn't insure you.

Health insurance does insure me.

You don't seem to fully grasp what health insurance is.

Allowing people to get "insurance" after they get sick isn't health insurance. It's welfare.

You pay $200 a month in premiums, which would amount to $2,400 a year. Yet you get appendicitis and the cost to have an appendectomy is $33,000. You don't pay that $33,000 cost, the insurer administrates it from the premium pool you paid into. That's welfare?

That sounds like insurance to me.

No they don't. They don't have any clue.

They do.

And that's why pre-ACA they would routinely deny care, spike premiums, or kick people off their insurance.

Your anecdotes are very convincing.

Except when you say it's welfare

Insurance is different than welfare. You haven't figured that out yet.

which seems to change depending on how your argument is faring.

Obamacare allowing pre-existing conditions to buy coverage the day before they need expensive care means Obamacare is not insurance.

But you're paying those premiums too.

Yes, allowing people to steal my premiums makes it welfare, not insurance.

So say you pay $200 a month for your insurance plan through the Exchange. That's $2,400 a year. You get a burst appendix, and the appendectomy costs you $33,000. Your insurance covers that. So you're saying that you're stealing from someone else's premiums to pay for your appendectomy

If you allow me to pay $200 only after my appendix burst then yes, that would be stealing someone else's premiums. If I was enrolled in the plan and then at some point in the future my appendix burst, that's not stealing.

Your confusion between actual insurance and welfare or stealing is amusing considering your OP.

So here's the totality of your argument; health insurance is welfare,

Allowing someone to buy coverage after they are already sick is not insurance.

 

[WillowTree]

that's all i'm interested in but you don't come to those usually on your own. it's research, talk with others, and an open mind.

You:

a) refuse to do the research even when I happily and nicely provide you with sourced, credible links you don't open.

b) "talk with others" which is really just code for "making shit up so I don't have to do a)".

c) have a mind so open your brains have spilled out.

The problem, and it's not just you so don't take it personally, is that Conservatives simply are too lazy to actually have an informed opinion about anything. Then you get defensive and so fucking whiny when your half-assed opinion is contested. Like I'm supposed to coddle you, even as you arrogantly bray your nonsense on the boards. Why the fuck should I? You don't seem to give a shit that you piss people off by spouting nonsense, so why should I give a shit that I make you feel bad by providing you with truth that runs counter to your conventional "wisdom" (and I use the term "wisdom" here very generously, proving I am a nice guy after all)? Any thoughts on that?

i don't like to read the self-indulgent ramblings of someone who takes any counter-thought as bullshit.

"Counter-thought" would imply you've actually given it thought. Jury's still out on that one. You obviously haven't given it any thought because you haven't done the research, which would make "talking" to imaginary friends moot. My mind is not opened to people who haven't bothered to give thought to anything. My mind is not opened to people too lazy to do the work. My mind is not opened to people who refuse personal responsibility and facts. My mind is closed tight to people like that because I'm frankly tired of having to read the same stupid shit over and over. At this point, there's no excuse anymore for being uninformed. It's an active choice you make. Making the choice to be uninformed isn't a choice I respect, nor is it a choice that has any validity. It's just laziness and sloppiness. Grow up.

You should get a job and pay your own way in the world!