CDZ Do you agree that, only through government, can people...

[alpine]

so without central planning of the water, land, irrigation, crops... any farming is doomed to fail...

Dude, you're just making this shit up as you go. You've made numerous statements of fact that I easily debunked. You claim that central planning by an all-powerful government bureaucracy is "better" than simply letting private individuals figure out their own thing. Why do you think China abandoned communism and it's failing "central planning" in favor of private ownership under fascist authoritarianism? I'll tell you why - because central planning by government bureaucrats SUCKS. Do you think the Chinese government has any plan to revert to "central planning" anytime soon?

Seriously, you live in some alternative narrative and NOT in reality.

The Leftest don't understand that much too often the "central planning" by someone else robs an individual of their potential and their Liberty. It can be very oppressive as we have seen in many countries. It certainly destroys economies.

Collectivism may work great in a bee hive but humans are not insects.

I trust private enterprise, working to make a profit, to supply quality goods and services at the lowest possible price to any non caring bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups.

Just look at Joe Biden being owned by the Chinese as an example. He will be working to payback China for the money they gave Hunter rather than working for the interest of the American people. He also owes Russia for the millions the Moscow Mayor's wife gave him and then we know about the debt he owes the Ukrainians for that dream job Hunter got.

and how you planning to figure out if it is a quality product or not...
i guess you will look at the packaging to figure that out...

I am quite capable of making market decisions. Been doing it all my life. For instance, I have learned that vehicles made by UAW workers are inferior to those made in non union plants.

I sure don't need some stupid uncaring government bureaucrat making decisions for me.

i see...

so if you are making this all around educated purchase based on if the workers are union or not, you wouldnt care car manufacturers not making safety recalls either then, i assume...

since you are taking all responsibilities in your decisions by being the expert, you wouldnt need any organ of the government ( like a court ) with a stupid bureaucrat in it ( like a judge ) to file any claims with the manufacturer either...

i dont see what can go wrong in this setup really...

 

[Flash]

so without central planning of the water, land, irrigation, crops... any farming is doomed to fail...

Dude, you're just making this shit up as you go. You've made numerous statements of fact that I easily debunked. You claim that central planning by an all-powerful government bureaucracy is "better" than simply letting private individuals figure out their own thing. Why do you think China abandoned communism and it's failing "central planning" in favor of private ownership under fascist authoritarianism? I'll tell you why - because central planning by government bureaucrats SUCKS. Do you think the Chinese government has any plan to revert to "central planning" anytime soon?

Seriously, you live in some alternative narrative and NOT in reality.

The Leftest don't understand that much too often the "central planning" by someone else robs an individual of their potential and their Liberty. It can be very oppressive as we have seen in many countries. It certainly destroys economies.

Collectivism may work great in a bee hive but humans are not insects.

I trust private enterprise, working to make a profit, to supply quality goods and services at the lowest possible price to any non caring bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups.

Just look at Joe Biden being owned by the Chinese as an example. He will be working to payback China for the money they gave Hunter rather than working for the interest of the American people. He also owes Russia for the millions the Moscow Mayor's wife gave him and then we know about the debt he owes the Ukrainians for that dream job Hunter got.

and how you planning to figure out if it is a quality product or not...
i guess you will look at the packaging to figure that out...

I am quite capable of making market decisions. Been doing it all my life. For instance, I have learned that vehicles made by UAW workers are inferior to those made in non union plants.

I sure don't need some stupid uncaring government bureaucrat making decisions for me.

i see...

so if you are making this all around educated purchase based on if the workers are union or not, you wouldnt care car manufacturers not making safety recalls either then, i assume...

since you are taking all responsibilities in your decisions by being the expert, you wouldnt need any organ of the government ( like a court ) with a stupid bureaucrat in it ( like a judge ) to file any claims with the manufacturer either...

i dont see what can go wrong in this setup really...

I have bought UAW vehicles that have been terrible. Like the Jeep Grand Cherokee that couldn't even make it to 75K miles. I have bought vehicles made in non union plants in right to work states and they have been great. Like my Tundra made in Texas by non union workers.

I can make my own decision. If it was up to corrupt politicians they would require that I buy vehicles made by the unions or companies that give them the most campaign donations.

I don't trust the government to look after my best interest because it doesn't have my best interest at heart.

I actually feel sorry for anyone that trust the government or thinks the government is their friend. At best it is a necessary evil. At worse it is oppressive and robs us of individual Liberty.

 

[Blues Man]

they get subsidies because they tell their representative to get them subsidies.

You keep missing the point. This is the third and last time I'm going to say it. They would be UNABLE to receive subsidies IF we had a more LIMITED government.

Maybe maybe not.

a limited government in no way means government subsidies will disappear.

 

[Blues Man]

so without central planning of the water, land, irrigation, crops... any farming is doomed to fail...

Dude, you're just making this shit up as you go. You've made numerous statements of fact that I easily debunked. You claim that central planning by an all-powerful government bureaucracy is "better" than simply letting private individuals figure out their own thing. Why do you think China abandoned communism and it's failing "central planning" in favor of private ownership under fascist authoritarianism? I'll tell you why - because central planning by government bureaucrats SUCKS. Do you think the Chinese government has any plan to revert to "central planning" anytime soon?

Seriously, you live in some alternative narrative and NOT in reality.

The Leftest don't understand that much too often the "central planning" by someone else robs an individual of their potential and their Liberty. It can be very oppressive as we have seen in many countries. It certainly destroys economies.

Collectivism may work great in a bee hive but humans are not insects.

I trust private enterprise, working to make a profit, to supply quality goods and services at the lowest possible price to any non caring bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups.

Just look at Joe Biden being owned by the Chinese as an example. He will be working to payback China for the money they gave Hunter rather than working for the interest of the American people. He also owes Russia for the millions the Moscow Mayor's wife gave him and then we know about the debt he owes the Ukrainians for that dream job Hunter got.

the righties don't seem to understand that either.

Don't forget that so called right wing administrations have grown the size scope and cost of government just as much as so called left wing administrations

 

[alpine]

so without central planning of the water, land, irrigation, crops... any farming is doomed to fail...

Dude, you're just making this shit up as you go. You've made numerous statements of fact that I easily debunked. You claim that central planning by an all-powerful government bureaucracy is "better" than simply letting private individuals figure out their own thing. Why do you think China abandoned communism and it's failing "central planning" in favor of private ownership under fascist authoritarianism? I'll tell you why - because central planning by government bureaucrats SUCKS. Do you think the Chinese government has any plan to revert to "central planning" anytime soon?

Seriously, you live in some alternative narrative and NOT in reality.

The Leftest don't understand that much too often the "central planning" by someone else robs an individual of their potential and their Liberty. It can be very oppressive as we have seen in many countries. It certainly destroys economies.

Collectivism may work great in a bee hive but humans are not insects.

I trust private enterprise, working to make a profit, to supply quality goods and services at the lowest possible price to any non caring bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups.

Just look at Joe Biden being owned by the Chinese as an example. He will be working to payback China for the money they gave Hunter rather than working for the interest of the American people. He also owes Russia for the millions the Moscow Mayor's wife gave him and then we know about the debt he owes the Ukrainians for that dream job Hunter got.

and how you planning to figure out if it is a quality product or not...
i guess you will look at the packaging to figure that out...

I am quite capable of making market decisions. Been doing it all my life. For instance, I have learned that vehicles made by UAW workers are inferior to those made in non union plants.

I sure don't need some stupid uncaring government bureaucrat making decisions for me.

i see...

so if you are making this all around educated purchase based on if the workers are union or not, you wouldnt care car manufacturers not making safety recalls either then, i assume...

since you are taking all responsibilities in your decisions by being the expert, you wouldnt need any organ of the government ( like a court ) with a stupid bureaucrat in it ( like a judge ) to file any claims with the manufacturer either...

i dont see what can go wrong in this setup really...

I have bought UAW vehicles that have been terrible. Like the Jeep Grand Cherokee that couldn't even make it to 75K miles. I have bought vehicles made in non union plants in right to work states and they have been great. Like my Tundra made in Texas by non union workers.

I can make my own decision. If it was up to corrupt politicians they would require that I buy vehicles made by the unions or companies that give them the most campaign donations.

I don't trust the government to look after my best interest because it doesn't have my best interest at heart.

I actually feel sorry for anyone that trust the government or thinks the government is their friend. At best it is a necessary evil. At worse it is oppressive and robs us of individual Liberty.

you yourself just said that it is necessary...
and even toyota does make cars that do break...

so i dont find it productive to argue the topic with you any further...

 

[beagle9]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I believe that we have allowed government to think that we can't make it unless government is providing the platform for us to make it, otherwise where it forces us to be kind to one another no matter what. This started in the 60s due to the civil rights revolution, and that was A-ok, but it's expansion after realizing the power it gained over us during that time period, has now been utilized in the worse ways in these modern times. That's how it works doesn't it people, otherwise our government gained an inch, but then it confiscated the whole show. Even the black's realize this now (the ones who aren't falling for the bullcrap), because them seeing this power grab expansionism at their expense (trashing their will to not be controlled by unethical scrupulous forces), is forcing them to take a step back now, and to analyze what in the heck is going on in their good name in which they don't support.

 

[sartre play]

Blaming the other guy is not a solution.

 

[K9Buck]

The U.S. became the most successful and powerful nation in the world long before government became monolithic in size.

Today, the purpose of government is to perpetuate itself as well as its connected elites and corrupted politicians in BOTH major parties.

We need to go back to a more limited government and have term limits.

 

[otto105]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

Yes, without a good road to drive on commerce doesn't happen.

Anyone who feels that we are just a bunch of individuals going whatever have never experienced team sports. Government provides the rules for everyone to play by. Government provides equal opportunity for all people to excel.

People who answer this question no, have no idea or are just plain greedy.

 

[otto105]

The U.S. became the most successful and powerful nation in the world long before government became monolithic in size.

Today, the purpose of government is to perpetuate itself as well as its connected elites and corrupted politicians in BOTH major parties.

We need to go back to a more limited government and have term limits.

Can you point to that year?

It will be very telling.

 

[otto105]

No I don't believe only through government, can people realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

However, I do not believe all governments are evil, for some governments are self serving which has been proved by Trump&Co. Frankly, this thread seems to be in support of anarchism, or Libertarianism which is a notch away from anarchism.

Of all the countries on earth, which ones are the economic engines and have wealth?

Small bathtub ones or other.

 

[beagle9]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

Yes, without a good road to drive on commerce doesn't happen.

Anyone who feels that we are just a bunch of individuals going whatever have never experienced team sports. Government provides the rules for everyone to play by. Government provides equal opportunity for all people to excel.

People who answer this question no, have no idea or are just plain greedy.

No one has an issue with government providing services like military protection, roads, infrastructure, environmental protection, air quality control, pollution control/disposal of hazardous waste etc, but what people don't want the government doing is involving itself deeply into cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, and domestic affairs where it begins to dictate to the masses for the wrecklace whims of a few.

It has become a very serious problem.

 

[Rye Catcher]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

Yes, without a good road to drive on commerce doesn't happen.

Anyone who feels that we are just a bunch of individuals going whatever have never experienced team sports. Government provides the rules for everyone to play by. Government provides equal opportunity for all people to excel.

People who answer this question no, have no idea or are just plain greedy.

No one has an issue with government providing services like military protection, roads, infrastructure, environmental protection, air quality control, pollution control/disposal of hazardous waste etc, but what people don't want the government doing is involving itself deeply into cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, and domestic affairs where it begins to dictate to the masses for the wrecklace whims of a few.

It has become a very serious problem.

Please describe "Wrechlace (sic) whims of a few?

 

[K9Buck]

Can you point to that year?

The U.S. became the most industrialized nation in the WORLD in the late 1800's.

 

[K9Buck]

Government provides the rules for everyone to play by. Government provides equal opportunity for all people to excel.

I wish that were true. Today's government tells citizens that they have to close their businesses for their own safety and the safety of their patrons over a virus that has a 99.98% recovery rate. Since when can the constitution be suspended over a virus?

 

[otto105]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

Yes, without a good road to drive on commerce doesn't happen.

Anyone who feels that we are just a bunch of individuals going whatever have never experienced team sports. Government provides the rules for everyone to play by. Government provides equal opportunity for all people to excel.

People who answer this question no, have no idea or are just plain greedy.

No one has an issue with government providing services like military protection, roads, infrastructure, environmental protection, air quality control, pollution control/disposal of hazardous waste etc, but what people don't want the government doing is involving itself deeply into cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, and domestic affairs where it begins to dictate to the masses for the wrecklace whims of a few.

It has become a very serious problem.

I see where you coming from. You want government not to be involved in anyone's economic person, but want to dictate so much on the personal side. Limit women right to choose size of family, dictate gay rights and return to a black and white world.

Why is it conservatives never advance the rights and freedoms?

 

[K9Buck]

Limit women right to choose size of family, dictate gay rights and return to a black and white world.

Not me, but I am opposed to women killing children, an act I presume you enthusiastically support.

 

[otto105]

Government provides the rules for everyone to play by. Government provides equal opportunity for all people to excel.

I wish that were true. Today's government tells citizens that they have to close their businesses for their own safety and the safety of their patrons over a virus that has a 99.98% recovery rate. Since when can the constitution be suspended over a virus?

A 99.98% recovery rate? With 340,000+ dead in 9 months.

Also, the constitution says you can spread at will a disease during a pandemic?

 

[otto105]

Limit women right to choose size of family, dictate gay rights and return to a black and white world.

Not me, but I am opposed to women killing children, an act I presume you enthusiastically support.

I child is not a zygote or a fetus.

Do you not understand that?

 

[K9Buck]

Also, the constitution says you can spread at will a disease during a pandemic?

So you support the concept that the government can suspend a citizen's rights over any "crisis". I disagree.