Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[logical4u]

My bad I thought you were an American..

Maybe he just thinks Issa is an asshole...I do.

Oh that's why he claimed Executive Privilege. Thanks.

Bush claimed executive privilege HUNDREDS of times...So did Cheney..big whoop!

Link?

 

[Trajan]

No, they did not systemically do so, stop reading garbage.

and you should ask the UN, they still cannot define it....

Both Human Rights Watch, and the Catholic Institute for International Relations (CIIR, now known as "Progressio") have presented a wealth of proof that the Contras were doing just that.

A fact finding mission of 1985 – sponsored by the International Human Rights Law Group and the Washington Office on Latin America, and carried out independently of any Nicaraguan government interference or direction - found that the contras with some frequency deliberately targeted Nicaraguan citizens in acts of terroristic violence.

An influential report on Contra atrocities was issued by lawyer Reed Brody shortly before the 1985 U.S. Congressional vote on Contra aid. It disclosed a "distinct pattern" of abuses by the contras, including: "attacks on purely civilian targets resulting in the killing of unarmed men, woman, children and the elderly; – premeditated acts of brutality including rapes, beatings, mutilations and torture; – and individual and mass kidnappings of civilians for the purpose of forced recruitment into the Contra forces and the creation of a hostage refugee population in Honduras; – assaults on economic and social targets such as farms, cooperatives and on vehicles carrying volunteer coffee harvesters; – intimidation of civilians who participate or cooperate in government or community programs such as distribution of subsidized food products, education and local self-defense militias; – and kidnapping, intimidation, and even murder of religious leaders who support the government, including priests and clergy- trained lay pastors."

Similarly, Human Rights Watch pointed out that "the Contras systematically engage in violent abuses... so prevalent that these may be said to be their principal means of waging war" in a 1989 report.

Contras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

been there argued that.

thread was on contras or some facsimile there of..... her name was Barb, she was the main protagonist in the thread, oh about 2 months I think after I got here, its in the archives.

we had this out and the other bugaboo, drugs, as in we were transporting, dealing drugs etc etc for them too...

all I will say , agai is; this was a proxy war between us and the east bloc, like all the others, unsavory shit went down no argument there.

but there was no systemic orders issued for murders etc. , and of course you can ask yourself, if the contras were such bloodthirsty pirates and terrorists, why did Chamorro win handily and crushed Ortega et al in the countryside vote? ....*shrugs*read the thread...

 

[del]

Oh that's why he claimed Executive Privilege. Thanks.

Bush claimed executive privilege HUNDREDS of times...So did Cheney..big whoop!

Not hundreds but when he did use the executive order it was appropriate to do so. You'll see

an executive order isn't executive privilege, nimrod

 

[Ernie S.]

My bad I thought you were an American..

Maybe he just thinks Issa is an asshole...I do.

Oh that's why he claimed Executive Privilege. Thanks.

Bush claimed executive privilege HUNDREDS of times...So did Cheney..big whoop!

6 clinton 9

 

[The T]

Oh that's why he claimed Executive Privilege. Thanks.

Bush claimed executive privilege HUNDREDS of times...So did Cheney..big whoop!

6 clinton 9

Actually? Bush 6...Clinton? 14.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Get a grip you dopes.

Cops unfortunately get murdered every day..

I have seen no evidense that anyone in the ATF acted in bad faith.

Screwed up? Maybe. Commited a crime? Hardly.

Actually the one guy that should be in jail is the asshole that ratted out the ongoing sting and investigation.

Tipping off the criminals that thier weapons were being tracked was the only criminal element to the governments case against the ATF.

Really? the government who would love nothing better than to have a reason to create a gun ban should be allowed to do this?
That was the plan for fast and the furious use it to get support for a gun ban. I am glad the rats were told on.

WOW!~ You are one delusional motherfucker. Where have you seen the tinyest scrap of information that Obama intends to ban guns?

SOOOOooo...THIS is what THIS is all about? You have officially lost your mind.

Delusional? What is obama hiding? Why was Clinton and holder both back in 2009 pitching the weapons ban message to help with guns going into mexico from America? You fucking idiot

 

[Ernie S.]

I stand corrected. Will Huggy admit his error?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Any patriotic American from left to right knows at this point that Wategate was far more serious in light of what we have right now.

Time will tell.

Why do you say that? If the WH is covering up it's involvement in this operation, I really can't see a whole lot of difference. People died as a result of this mess.

Because we don't know yet. Once (if) the documentation is released, we can decide.

But right now, we can't compare: we don't have the evidence.

Threaten impeachment or file with SCOTUS. Force BHO to give the evidence.

I have a question for you Jake.

If there is nothing to hide, why would Obama invoke executive privilege this close to an election? This moved the story from the blogosphere onto the nightly news, something that did not happen despite the efforts of the Republicans for the last two years.

 

[RoadVirus]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

Is F&F worse then Watergate? Hell ya. No one died as a result of Watergate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Watergate appears to have been far worse.

Time will tell about Holder, etc.

It appears far worse in your mind because a Republican was behind it.

This isn't a scandal, and Watergate seems less so with time. We lost the President who really brought down the USSR because of his insecurity, Nixon's resignation has had a negative impact on the US. Some historians write that the South lost its innocence in the Civil War, the nation did on April 22, 1974.

It wasn't a scandal, it is now.

 

[The T]

I stand corrected. Will Huggy admit his error?

It wasn't against you brother. it's that I looked it up earlier this morning.

 

[Dr Grump]

Because you are going after somebody who allegedly has committed perjury and should be strung up over a border agent being killed.

Marry that with Bush saying "I didn't know" with regard to lack of WMDs in Iraq and the free pass he was given - no investigation, no nothing - then I find it hyper hypocritical that some on the right are calling for Holder's head - the main plank being the death of a border agent - when there are 4500+ US service men and women dead over something that never existed. Not even going to mention the deaths of civilians and the wounded...

Knowing you, you will try and argue the minutiae of both cases, but on the whole, the big picture - to me - is the same: Bush - free pass; Obama: impeach/imprision/whatever

Seriously Trajan, how many threads on this board have neocon loons asked for Obama to be impeached, flung out of office, whatever...

There are just so many it is ridiculous. I thought the hate for Clinton was pathological...these past four years is a whole new level. And it is a type of person/poster too - uneducated, not too bright, think they know the law (not saying you are this type BTW - this is Stephanie, BIg Red, Mr T, - frickin loons)....

But the left's never ending hatred of Bush was justified? OK Forrest you're right. Stupid is as stupid does.

Never said it was...
He was an awful president though...worst ever...

But their hatred was OTT IMO...

 

[Dr Grump]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

Is F&F worse then Watergate? Hell ya. No one died as a result of Watergate.

But they did over WMD and I'm betting dollars to donuts there are Nicaraguans who are no longer alive today as a direct result of Iran Contra

 

[Dr Grump]

No, they did not systemically do so, stop reading garbage.

and you should ask the UN, they still cannot define it....

Both Human Rights Watch, and the Catholic Institute for International Relations (CIIR, now known as "Progressio") have presented a wealth of proof that the Contras were doing just that.

A fact finding mission of 1985 – sponsored by the International Human Rights Law Group and the Washington Office on Latin America, and carried out independently of any Nicaraguan government interference or direction - found that the contras with some frequency deliberately targeted Nicaraguan citizens in acts of terroristic violence.

An influential report on Contra atrocities was issued by lawyer Reed Brody shortly before the 1985 U.S. Congressional vote on Contra aid. It disclosed a "distinct pattern" of abuses by the contras, including: "attacks on purely civilian targets resulting in the killing of unarmed men, woman, children and the elderly; – premeditated acts of brutality including rapes, beatings, mutilations and torture; – and individual and mass kidnappings of civilians for the purpose of forced recruitment into the Contra forces and the creation of a hostage refugee population in Honduras; – assaults on economic and social targets such as farms, cooperatives and on vehicles carrying volunteer coffee harvesters; – intimidation of civilians who participate or cooperate in government or community programs such as distribution of subsidized food products, education and local self-defense militias; – and kidnapping, intimidation, and even murder of religious leaders who support the government, including priests and clergy- trained lay pastors."

Similarly, Human Rights Watch pointed out that "the Contras systematically engage in violent abuses... so prevalent that these may be said to be their principal means of waging war" in a 1989 report.

Contras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

been there argued that.

thread was on contras or some facsimile there of..... her name was Barb, she was the main protagonist in the thread, oh about 2 months I think after I got here, its in the archives.

we had this out and the other bugaboo, drugs, as in we were transporting, dealing drugs etc etc for them too...

all I will say , agai is; this was a proxy war between us and the east bloc, like all the others, unsavory shit went down no argument there.

but there was no systemic orders issued for murders etc. , and of course you can ask yourself, if the contras were such bloodthirsty pirates and terrorists, why did Chamorro win handily and crushed Ortega et al in the countryside vote? ....*shrugs*read the thread...

Does that make Iran/Contra ok?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Seriously Trajan, how many threads on this board have neocon loons asked for Obama to be impeached, flung out of office, whatever...

There are just so many it is ridiculous. I thought the hate for Clinton was pathological...these past four years is a whole new level. And it is a type of person/poster too - uneducated, not too bright, think they know the law (not saying you are this type BTW - this is Stephanie, BIg Red, Mr T, - frickin loons)....

But the left's never ending hatred of Bush was justified? OK Forrest you're right. Stupid is as stupid does.

Never said it was...
He was an awful president though...worst ever...

But their hatred was OTT IMO...

How in the fuck would you know this kangaroo fucker? You don't live here in America and you have no say about who was the worse American President.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am sorry, have you seen the Holder evidence?

You are guessing at this point.

Franco, do you REALLY think that eaves dropping on a political opponent is worse than supplying weapons to the Mexican drug cartel in hopes of subverting the constitution, resulting in the murder of a Federal Agent?

Are you really this much of a mindless, fucking hack?

And, um, who started that operation? Hint, it wasn't Holder. He put a stop to it. That aside, I actually think the premise behind the idea was not a bad one. If the Federal Agent had not been killed it might be interesting to see where it had gone.

That aside again, the chances of the person who killed the agent being armed at the time with a weapon from another source is very, very high...

How did Holder put a stop to an operation that ended in 2007?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Both Human Rights Watch, and the Catholic Institute for International Relations (CIIR, now known as "Progressio") have presented a wealth of proof that the Contras were doing just that.



Contras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

been there argued that.

thread was on contras or some facsimile there of..... her name was Barb, she was the main protagonist in the thread, oh about 2 months I think after I got here, its in the archives.

we had this out and the other bugaboo, drugs, as in we were transporting, dealing drugs etc etc for them too...

all I will say , agai is; this was a proxy war between us and the east bloc, like all the others, unsavory shit went down no argument there.

but there was no systemic orders issued for murders etc. , and of course you can ask yourself, if the contras were such bloodthirsty pirates and terrorists, why did Chamorro win handily and crushed Ortega et al in the countryside vote? ....*shrugs*read the thread...

Does that make Iran/Contra ok?

List of Australian political controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dr Grump]

But the left's never ending hatred of Bush was justified? OK Forrest you're right. Stupid is as stupid does.

Never said it was...
He was an awful president though...worst ever...

But their hatred was OTT IMO...

How in the fuck would you know this kangaroo fucker? You don't live here in America and you have no say about who was the worse American President.

Christ almighty, what is that smell of shit that permeates the air? WTF is that. Smells like a dead rat...


...



...oh, Hi BigTurd......

 

[Ernie S.]

I stand corrected. Will Huggy admit his error?

It wasn't against you brother. it's that I looked it up earlier this morning.

I'm happy to be corrected. Is Huggy?

Actually I saw the numbers, probably from you and misremembered them.

Hmm "Misremembered". How about that! I speak Democrat!

 

[Dr Grump]

Franco, do you REALLY think that eaves dropping on a political opponent is worse than supplying weapons to the Mexican drug cartel in hopes of subverting the constitution, resulting in the murder of a Federal Agent?

Are you really this much of a mindless, fucking hack?

And, um, who started that operation? Hint, it wasn't Holder. He put a stop to it. That aside, I actually think the premise behind the idea was not a bad one. If the Federal Agent had not been killed it might be interesting to see where it had gone.

That aside again, the chances of the person who killed the agent being armed at the time with a weapon from another source is very, very high...

How did Holder put a stop to an operation that ended in 2007?

Read the first sentence in post 299...