Do you want the President to Fail?

[sealybobo]

I take your point, Navy, and I respect it, but how can a President, or any leader, be considered separately from his policies?

In Afghanistan, yes I want him and his Generals to succeed. In Obamacare and greenhouse emissions legislation, I want him to fail in the sense that I hope his goals are not achieved.

There's a lot to be said for the idea of a loyal oppostiion.

So you admit you don't want to fix the problems we have in healthcare? Or are you saying you don't think the things we complain about are problems?

And you don't want to stop pollution?

Yea, god forbid he achieves either.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

No. But some of his policies NEED to fail.

a nice distinction.


I don't want cap and trade, or 0bamacare, or his tax policy, and I really badly want him not to win re election. And Stimulus II looks to be about as effective as Stimulus I.

I don't see the point of the distinction, really. He has bad ideas, I don't want any of them to come to pass.

It does look to me that the more he succeeds, the more America fails.

 

[Modbert]

I think people need to realize that Obama is not some Muslim Communist who is out to destroy the United of States of America for Kenya.

Honestly, to say he truly hates America and is making policies up to see it fail is not only illogical but insanity at it's best. It really is beginning to rank up there with the truthers who believe Bush is behind 9/11.

 

[LuckyDan]

I take your point, Navy, and I respect it, but how can a President, or any leader, be considered separately from his policies?

In Afghanistan, yes I want him and his Generals to succeed. In Obamacare and greenhouse emissions legislation, I want him to fail in the sense that I hope his goals are not achieved.

There's a lot to be said for the idea of a loyal oppostiion.

So you admit you don't want to fix the problems we have in healthcare? Or are you saying you don't think the things we complain about are problems?

And you don't want to stop pollution?

Yea, god forbid he achieves either.

I admitted nothing of the kind. I just don't agree that we have a healthcare crisis, or a pollution crisis, and I think the steps being taken in DC right now will be more harmful than the problems they are addressing.

 

[Oldandtired]

I think people need to realize that Obama is not some Muslim Communist who is out to destroy the United of States of America for Kenya.

Honestly, to say he truly hates America and is making policies up to see it fail is not only illogical but insanity at it's best. It really is beginning to rank up there with the truthers who believe Bush is behind 9/11.

The bulk of us see Obama as an American Citizen who cares for his country...but not the way it was designed to be, but instead in a different light...one where there is more government control.

We do not want him to fail. On the most part we do not care about him. Instead we are concerned that his policies will prove to be successful and people will adapt to them....but when they strat to realize that what they are adapting to ALSO eliminates certain liberties and self responsibility, it will be too late to revert back to the system that made us the strongest, most prosperous and most generous country in the world....a distinction that was acheived in a mere 250 years.

So we do not care about Obama....we want his "new America" policies to fail QUICKLY so we can start to recover the way we have always recovered...with true grit, sweat, blood and determination.

It is not unAmerican to want "New American" policies to fail.

 

[Oldandtired]

I take your point, Navy, and I respect it, but how can a President, or any leader, be considered separately from his policies?

In Afghanistan, yes I want him and his Generals to succeed. In Obamacare and greenhouse emissions legislation, I want him to fail in the sense that I hope his goals are not achieved.

There's a lot to be said for the idea of a loyal oppostiion.

So you admit you don't want to fix the problems we have in healthcare? Or are you saying you don't think the things we complain about are problems?

And you don't want to stop pollution?

Yea, god forbid he achieves either.

I admitted nothing of the kind. I just don't agree that we have a healthcare crisis, or a pollution crisis, and I think the steps being taken in DC right now will be more harmful than the problems they are addressing.

Exactly how I see it. We havce issues, yes. We always have and we always will. But crisis? Healthcare is a crisis? Sorry, I dont see it as a crisis. Those without healthcare, have emergency rooms. Yes, the taxpayer pays for it...but you want to know something? Most taxpayers are OK with having emergenmcy rooms take in those that need it....as long as we dont need to sacrifice our liberties...it is worth the extra tax money...
So exactly what is the crisis?

 

[Navy1960]

Let me go a little further then I don't think you would find many people who would disagree that bringing down the cost of healthcare, and making insurance less expensive and more available is a bad thing. However how you make it that way is where the disagreement comes. For many taking away liberty in the form of mandates is a lot harder to accept than having cheap healthcare which in many cases may not be all that cheap because someone has to pay for it. so here is a question, would Americans accept a public healthcare plan that pays for itself, and is not mandated? This is my personal opinion regulation should strike a balance and not be heavy handed. Over regulation especially those that mandate like in healthcare and over-spend as was the case with bailouts tend to assume the worst in Americans ability to right themselves when things go wrong. A President in my mind should take into consideration that he represents the interests of ALL Americans and as such be highly disappointed with any legislation that passes congress with only one parties stamp of approval. As I stated before though, a person can desire that policy fail and they do so everyday, in fact people are paid to see that policy fails, but to leap and say that it equates to wishing a President fail at least in my opinion tends to over state the matter a lot.

 

[Modbert]

The bulk of us see Obama as an American Citizen who cares for his country...but not the way it was designed to be, but instead in a different light...one where there is more government control.

We do not want him to fail. On the most part we do not care about him. Instead we are concerned that his policies will prove to be successful and people will adapt to them....but when they strat to realize that what they are adapting to ALSO eliminates certain liberties and self responsibility, it will be too late to revert back to the system that made us the strongest, most prosperous and most generous country in the world....a distinction that was acheived in a mere 250 years.

So we do not care about Obama....we want his "new America" policies to fail QUICKLY so we can start to recover the way we have always recovered...with true grit, sweat, blood and determination.

It is not unAmerican to want "New American" policies to fail.

Except people bulk everything he does into a "New American" policies. Your whole theory of a "New America" policy is merely a veil for your "Oh he wants to turn America into a Communist state" bullshit.

And then you call people unAmerican if they support any of the policies that YOU define as UnAmerican. What policies are exactly UnAmerican that he is currently proposing? Do tell.

 

[Oldandtired]

No. But some of his policies NEED to fail.

a nice distinction.


I don't want cap and trade, or 0bamacare, or his tax policy, and I really badly want him not to win re election. And Stimulus II looks to be about as effective as Stimulus I.

I don't see the point of the distinction, really. He has bad ideas, I don't want any of them to come to pass.

It does look to me that the more he succeeds, the more America fails.

It does not take rocket science to realize that the more government controls our lives, the more likely our lives will not be met with those that take advanatge of us.

But is that really what we want? Not to be ALLOWED to take chances...to take risks...to be rewarded when such risks pan out?

So sure...the "good" results of his policies sound great...but at the cost of what we must sacrifice? Sorry...those "good" results are not so good sounding.

 

[Oldandtired]

The bulk of us see Obama as an American Citizen who cares for his country...but not the way it was designed to be, but instead in a different light...one where there is more government control.

We do not want him to fail. On the most part we do not care about him. Instead we are concerned that his policies will prove to be successful and people will adapt to them....but when they strat to realize that what they are adapting to ALSO eliminates certain liberties and self responsibility, it will be too late to revert back to the system that made us the strongest, most prosperous and most generous country in the world....a distinction that was acheived in a mere 250 years.

So we do not care about Obama....we want his "new America" policies to fail QUICKLY so we can start to recover the way we have always recovered...with true grit, sweat, blood and determination.

It is not unAmerican to want "New American" policies to fail.

Except people bulk everything he does into a "New American" policies. Your whole theory of a "New America" policy is merely a veil for your "Oh he wants to turn America into a Communist state" bullshit.

And then you call people unAmerican if they support any of the policies that YOU define as UnAmerican. What policies are exactly UnAmerican that he is currently proposing? Do tell.

I called them unAmerican? Huh? Where?

I see his policies of bigger government as not the way America was designed.
America, with its flaws, is still the greateest, most powerful, most prosperous most generous nation in the world....acheived in 250 years of existance....
Do you think this is becuase the water is better here?

 

[Modbert]

I admitted nothing of the kind. I just don't agree that we have a healthcare crisis, or a pollution crisis, and I think the steps being taken in DC right now will be more harmful than the problems they are addressing.

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What was that? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the suffering of millions of America who are without Health Insurance in many cases due to disgusting reasons.

There are many things you can say. However, this country has needed Health Care Reform for a long time. I'm not saying that means the current bill being proposed. But reform is needed. To deny that is to be living in a fantasy world.

 

[sealybobo]

No. But some of his policies NEED to fail.

a nice distinction.


I don't want cap and trade, or 0bamacare, or his tax policy, and I really badly want him not to win re election. And Stimulus II looks to be about as effective as Stimulus I.

I don't see the point of the distinction, really. He has bad ideas, I don't want any of them to come to pass.

It does look to me that the more he succeeds, the more America fails.

Do you expect the GOP to fix:

The housing market?

Wages?

Out of control healthcare costs?

Pollution?

You may not like Cap and Trade or the Public Option, but do you like the GOP's position on pollution and healthcare?

 

[WillowTree]

The very question is liberalspeak for dishonest ****ery. Here's what I hope. I hope the lamebrain comes to his senses before it's too damn late..

When you libtards ask questions like this you cannot shout "hypocrite" any louder. We mock you.

 

[Oldandtired]

The bulk of us see Obama as an American Citizen who cares for his country...but not the way it was designed to be, but instead in a different light...one where there is more government control.

We do not want him to fail. On the most part we do not care about him. Instead we are concerned that his policies will prove to be successful and people will adapt to them....but when they strat to realize that what they are adapting to ALSO eliminates certain liberties and self responsibility, it will be too late to revert back to the system that made us the strongest, most prosperous and most generous country in the world....a distinction that was acheived in a mere 250 years.

So we do not care about Obama....we want his "new America" policies to fail QUICKLY so we can start to recover the way we have always recovered...with true grit, sweat, blood and determination.

It is not unAmerican to want "New American" policies to fail.

Except people bulk everything he does into a "New American" policies. Your whole theory of a "New America" policy is merely a veil for your "Oh he wants to turn America into a Communist state" bullshit.

And then you call people unAmerican if they support any of the policies that YOU define as UnAmerican. What policies are exactly UnAmerican that he is currently proposing? Do tell.

And by the way Dogbert...it was Obama himself that procl;aimed that he was going to "fundamentally change America"....not me.

ANd also.....as a side note...he ran onb a platform of changing the way WASHINGTON does things....and many voted for him for this.
Well...now he is saying he was voted in to fuindamentally change America.

You really think America needs to be changed fundamentally?

 

[Modbert]

I see his policies of bigger government as not the way America was designed.
America, with its flaws, is still the greateest, most powerful, most prosperous most generous nation in the world....acheived in 250 years of existance....
Do you think this is becuase the water is better here?

Bigger Government? So you see any form of Government to be big Government?

And the water is not in fact that much better here anymore.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

It's too late, he has already failed, and we can't recover from this corrupt administration.

 

[Modbert]

And by the way Dogbert...it was Obama himself that procl;aimed that he was going to "fundamentally change America"....not me.

ANd also.....as a side note...he ran onb a platform of changing the way WASHINGTON does things....and many voted for him for this.
Well...now he is saying he was voted in to fuindamentally change America.

You really think America needs to be changed fundamentally?

See, there you go again. I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation but you go right back to the conspiracy theories.

And in many ways, yes, America does need to change fundamentally. America has to evolve to be in today's society. If it doesn't, it will die out like the Roman Empire or the British Empire. You have to realize, while the policies of 1809 may sound nice, some of them are unrealistic in a ever changing world.

 

[sealybobo]

The very question is liberalspeak for dishonest ****ery. Here's what I hope. I hope the lamebrain comes to his senses before it's too damn late..

When you libtards ask questions like this you cannot shout "hypocrite" any louder. We mock you.

I remember cons like you saying that all 8 years of Clinton.

And did GOPanomics get us out of the 2000 recession or did it create the one we're in now? Sure can't blame Clinton, even though you will try.

Don't presidents usually use war to get out of recessions? But the GOP had 2 wars??? Oh yea, the corporations made record profits 2004, 05, 06, 07. I forgot. They made money on the way up and down. We got screwed all the way.

 

[Oldandtired]

I admitted nothing of the kind. I just don't agree that we have a healthcare crisis, or a pollution crisis, and I think the steps being taken in DC right now will be more harmful than the problems they are addressing.

Free Health Care Clinic Draws Thousands Of South LA Residents - Neon Tommy

Free health clinic draws hundreds to Bartle Hall - KansasCity.com

Free health care clinic draws thousands in Inglewood, California - Slideshow lightbox - UPI.com

ISS - Arkansas free clinic draws more than 1,000 uninsured -- and criticism from former President Clinton

ISS - Free health clinic in New Orleans highlights need for reforms

When Getting Beaten By Your Husband Is A Pre-Existing Condition

List of preexisting conditions includes being an “expectant father” « MNpublius.com

Consumer Watchdog, a nonpartisan consumer advocacy organization, has released a report that explores the internal underwriting guidelines of several health insurance companies, and you won’t believe some of the “conditions” that make people “uninsurable,” such as being an expectant father, or taking prescription drugs for allergies, heartburn, or toenail fungus.

Rape Victim's Choice: Risk AIDS or Health Insurance?

What was that? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the suffering of millions of America who are without Health Insurance in many cases due to disgusting reasons.

There are many things you can say. However, this country has needed Health Care Reform for a long time. I'm not saying that means the current bill being proposed. But reform is needed. To deny that is to be living in a fantasy world.

Oh. Im sorry. I thought I was debating someone who was in the know...not someone who beieves the rhetoric that pediatiricians take out tonsils because they make more money that way.

And by the way....Pediatricians do not take out tonsils. They suggest tonsils are to be removed...and surgeons take them out.

Oh yeah...and if the surgeons take them out per the pediatiricans suggestions? The pediatricians make LESS money bedcuase the child has fewer throat issues.

And morons like you all stared at Obama that noight saying...."yeah, hell with the pediatiricians"

He fools those with feeble minds.

You feeble minded?

 

[Oldandtired]

And by the way Dogbert...it was Obama himself that procl;aimed that he was going to "fundamentally change America"....not me.

ANd also.....as a side note...he ran onb a platform of changing the way WASHINGTON does things....and many voted for him for this.
Well...now he is saying he was voted in to fuindamentally change America.

You really think America needs to be changed fundamentally?

See, there you go again. I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation but you go right back to the conspiracy theories.

And in many ways, yes, America does need to change fundamentally. America has to evolve to be in today's society. If it doesn't, it will die out like the Roman Empire or the British Empire. You have to realize, while the policies of 1809 may sound nice, some of them are unrealistic in a ever changing world.

Conspiracy?

What the hell are you talking about.
He IS fundamentally changing America. He believes in regulating salaries, emissions, healthcare, etc.
COnspiracy?
Sorry...not a conspiuracy.
I am done with you. You spin and twist. No time for your games.
So long little child.