Does God Exist?

[Blues Man]

I can’t agree with that. God and Jesus are the central figures in the Bible. “Creation”, man’s fall from grace and subsequent punishment (the flood), are major themes.

So God and Jesus came to talk about themselves?

The certainly talked about how they should be worshiped

 

[Hollie]

I can’t agree with that. God and Jesus are the central figures in the Bible. “Creation”, man’s fall from grace and subsequent punishment (the flood), are major themes.

So God and Jesus came to talk about themselves?

The only accounts of God or Jesus we have are those written by mostly unknown authors. Those accounts largely describe man’s interaction / punishment by the Gods for their behaviors.

 

[Meriweather]

If a god told you what to write would you sneak in your opinions or would you write exactly what he told you to write?
If it's some guy's opinion then it cannot be the word of a god.

And if the English translation is so poor why then don't Christian religions study it in the original language?

How much of the bible you use is actually an instruction manual from your god and how much is made up by some guy?

Maybe Genesis is made up or misunderstood

Maybe the 10 Commandments are a plagiarism of some other philosopher.

So? Why tear down the Bible?

My understanding of the Bible is not your understanding. The point I am trying to get across is that people understand the Bible and its purposes very differently. Why don't Christians study in the original language? Some do. And some study Biblical culture and history. This takes years, decades. So, what most get from Church (because they don't have decades to study) is a quick summary. Then, those who believe they can read and understand the Bible on their own, do not even get that. They get their own misconceptions served back to them in what they think must be the real truth. Mistaking misconceptions for real truth, can cause bitterness towards both the Bible and God (not to mention religion).

 

[Meriweather]

The certainly talked about how they should be worshiped

Why?

 

[Meriweather]

Those accounts largely describe man’s interaction / punishment by the Gods for their behaviors.

Mentioned, but not "largely".

 

[Hollie]

Those accounts largely describe man’s interaction / punishment by the Gods for their behaviors.

Mentioned, but not "largely".

“Mentioned”? Man’s crimes and punishment are core themes in the Bible beginning with the very first chapter; eternal punishment for all mankind as a result of fruit theft.

 

[alang1216]

You presume to know the mind of the god who will judge you

It's worse than that. They are essentially telling their God what to do.

 

[alang1216]

I can’t agree with that. God and Jesus are the central figures in the Bible. “Creation”, man’s fall from grace and subsequent punishment (the flood), are major themes.

So God and Jesus came to talk about themselves?

The only accounts of God or Jesus we have are those written by mostly unknown authors. Those accounts largely describe man’s interaction / punishment by the Gods for their behaviors.

It's even worse than that, many parts of both the OT and NT are forgeries, written in the name of someone who didn't write or authorize them and was usually long dead. How can we know what God says if people just make stuff up?

 

[luchitociencia]

don't forget that the "laws" of physics are derived from our understanding of a mere 5% of the universe.

So they are hardly the gold standard

Ha! And how are you so sure you have understood a 5% of the universe? That is arrogance...

I think you are dreaming a lot. Lol.

 

[luchitociencia]

Yet Chinese or Hindu civilizations have books that explore their cultures without worrying about what was happening in Israel and Ireland.

The bible mentions the beginnings of the Chinese and Hindu civilizations. One when the descendants of the children of Noah are listed, and the second when the descendants of Ishmael are mentioned. One reflects the physical location in the map, the another the religious influence the Hindu people received from this branch of the descendants of Abraham, from which the Hindu inherited, and the name was derived to Brahma.

 

[luchitociencia]

If a god told you what to write would you sneak in your opinions or would you write exactly what he told you to write?
If it's some guy's opinion then it cannot be the word of a god.

Very good input.

However, the bible is not only instructions and opinions. It has history and prophecy.

Lets say, you want to know the laws of this country. Yes, you can go to a library and pull law books and learn. However, you won't fully understand those laws without learning the history of the US.

Same as well when you go to each other coutry of the world, which has different laws to be understood better when knowing their culture.

And if the English translation is so poor why then don't Christian religions study it in the original language?

The "original copies" in Hebrew have also lots of errors and some of them guide to misinterpretations. The errors are so tricky that the greater rabbis from the past were tricked by their own "tradition" as well the current rabbis keep following the mistakes.

The human errors found in the bible won't mean the essence of the teachings are affected.

How much of the bible you use is actually an instruction manual from your god and how much is made up by some guy?

The whole book is an instruction manual. When I was studying a book about criminal justice, some laws were mentioned and examples of their breaking and the out coming (consequences and recompense) are shown, so you can have a better idea of what those laws mean, their purpose, etc.

Maybe Genesis is made up or misunderstood

The second.

Maybe the 10 Commandments are a plagiarism of some other philosopher.

Yes, maybe, but there is no evidence to back up such assumption.

 

[Meriweather]

“Mentioned”? Man’s crimes and punishment are core themes in the Bible beginning with the very first chapter; eternal punishment for all mankind as a result of fruit theft.

And I am saying there are many more themes in the Bible than punishment. Have you ever read Genesis visualizing God reacting without anger, simply casually counting off the consequences (not the punishment) of this choice. For example, if one wishes to experience motherhood, there is a painful childbirth to go through. We forget that mankind wanted knowledge.

I suppose one way would have been for God to set up a classroom with all of us sitting quietly in neat little rows? Or we could choose to have a practical experience/lesson and everything that goes with that.

 

[Meriweather]

It's worse than that. They are essentially telling their God what to do.

Or, it is essentially trusting in God's promises and covenants.

 

[luchitociencia]

The certainly talked about how they should be worshiped

God talked how he must be worshiped.

The messiah talked how to properly worship God

 

[Meriweather]

It's even worse than that, many parts of both the OT and NT are forgeries, written in the name of someone who didn't write or authorize them and was usually long dead. How can we know what God says if people just make stuff up?

It is hardly forgery. It is attributing the information contained within to its proper source, instead of claiming credit for oneself.

 

[Hollie]

“Mentioned”? Man’s crimes and punishment are core themes in the Bible beginning with the very first chapter; eternal punishment for all mankind as a result of fruit theft.

And I am saying there are many more themes in the Bible than punishment. Have you ever read Genesis visualizing God reacting without anger, simply casually counting off the consequences (not the punishment) of this choice. For example, if one wishes to experience motherhood, there is a painful childbirth to go through. We forget that mankind wanted knowledge.

I suppose one way would have been for God to set up a classroom with all of us sitting quietly in neat little rows? Or we could choose to have a practical experience/lesson and everything that goes with that.

There are themes and then there are Themes. One of the earliest Themes in the Bible deals with punishment. That Theme is echoed through the Bible, through Christianity and through all of humanity, according the Christianity. The Gods put forth a test to only two humans without (at least in terms of the Judeo-Christian god) giving them either the ability to make a considered choice nor did he bother to tell them the consequences would extend to every person born after them.

A punishment for all humanity, for all time. That's quite a Theme.

 

[The Irish Ram]

ON JUDGEMENT:
There are 2 post death judgements. It is one or the other, but not both. One for the children of God. The other for those who are not.
BEMA judgement is for those who accepted the gift Christ offered them on the cross. Those people have NO SIN TO judge. Their sin was dealt with on the cross and God remembers those sins NO MORE. It would be an unfair judge to sentence 2 people to death for the same crime. Christ was sentenced for your crimes so that you will NOT be sentenced. ^That is the gift.
In Heaven, at your coronation, your actions for Jesus' sake are judged. (e.g. If you give $100 to a charity, and tell everyone you did it, and they tell you what a great guy you are, and it puffs you up, then you have received your reward for your own ego. On the other hand, if you give to a charity for Christ's sake, to be more like Him, and you tell no one, that action is judged worthy of a crown, and you receive one of the 7 crowns available to God's children.

The White Throne Judgement is reserved for those who died with their sins intact, and have been waiting to be judged for those sins. It takes place here, after the millennial reign of Christ. It is reserved for Satan, his demons, and those who did not accept the gift of a perfect record in which to enter Heaven.
Those poor souls ARE judged, sins and all.
^ Good luck.

For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more

.

 

[alang1216]

It's even worse than that, many parts of both the OT and NT are forgeries, written in the name of someone who didn't write or authorize them and was usually long dead. How can we know what God says if people just make stuff up?

It is hardly forgery. It is attributing the information contained within to its proper source, instead of claiming credit for oneself.

Nope. Early Christian texts were required to be apostolic if they were to be taken seriously. The result, hardly surprising, is that anyone who had a theology they wanted other Christians to read and follow, would write in the name of an apostle. Hence a forgery. At least some of these forgeries made it into the Christian canon. Also, there are some chapters added to the original Gospels to reinforce a theology.

 

[Meriweather]

There are themes and then there are Themes. One of the earliest Themes in the Bible deals with punishment. That Theme is echoed through the Bible, through Christianity and through all of humanity, according the Christianity. The Gods put forth a test to only two humans without (at least in terms of the Judeo-Christian god) giving them either the ability to make a considered choice nor did he bother to tell them the consequences would extend to every person born after them.

A punishment for all humanity, for all time. That's quite a Theme.

I understand the perspective you presented may follow the way some others think as well--but by no means is it the perspective of all--or even the majority. I tend to agree with the Jewish perspective has always been God's word is meant to help us through this life--it is not about punishment.

From your perspective, if you came across a sign that said, "Danger--Quicksand" and you paid no attention, the person who put up the sign you simply regard as an old meanie who punished you when you got sucked in by the quicksand. After all, the person who noticed the quicksand should have cleaned it all up!

What some consider unfair and undue punishment, others merely see as a consequence of what happens when one chooses a certain type of behavior.

 

[alang1216]

ON JUDGEMENT:
There are 2 post death judgements. It is one or the other, but not both. One for the children of God. The other for those who are not.
BEMA judgement is for those who accepted the gift Christ offered them on the cross. Those people have NO SIN TO judge. Their sin was dealt with on the cross and God remembers those sins NO MORE. It would be an unfair judge to sentence 2 people to death for the same crime. Christ was sentenced for your crimes so that you will NOT be sentenced. ^That is the gift.
In Heaven, at your coronation, your actions for Jesus' sake are judged. (e.g. If you give $100 to a charity, and tell everyone you did it, and they tell you what a great guy you are, and it puffs you up, then you have received your reward for your own ego. On the other hand, if you give to a charity for Christ's sake, to be more like Him, and you tell no one, that action is judged worthy of a crown, and you receive one of the 7 crowns available to God's children.

The White Throne Judgement is reserved for those who died with their sins intact, and have been waiting to be judged for those sins. It takes place here, after the millennial reign of Christ. It is reserved for Satan, his demons, and those who did not accept the gift of a perfect record in which to enter Heaven.
Those poor souls ARE judged, sins and all.
^ Good luck.

For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more

.

Since I am not a believer, it sounds like I'll be judged. What will that judgement be based on and will I have a shot at heaven?