Does science trump philosophy?

[Treeshepherd]

This whole conversation got off track. Philosophy needs to be differentiated from metaphysics, though there is often an overlap.

Happy wife, happy life. That's a piece of pop-philosophy. It communicates the sense that happiness is a worthy personal goal and furthermore prescribes a path toward achieving that goal.

Philosophy is prescriptive, because it's the study of existence. It acts as a guiding principle for behavior.

Science alone is incomplete because the meaning of life is more than a definition of life.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

This whole conversation got off track. Philosophy needs to be differentiated from metaphysics, though there is often an overlap.

Happy wife, happy life. That's a piece of pop-philosophy. It communicates the sense that happiness is a worthy personal goal and furthermore prescribes a path toward achieving that goal.

Philosophy is prescriptive, because it's the study of existence. It acts as a guiding principle for behavior.

Science alone is incomplete because the meaning of life is more than a definition of life.

The meaning of life is death if we use simple logic... However a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values. For one man, or woman, it is all right to kill your neighbor to obtain his holdings and for the next it is morally and ethically repulsive. Each philosophy is only as perfect as those that follow it... Look as Nietzsche's works as compared to the teachings of Christ or Ghandi. Each person has their own values. We all live in a imperfect world and are...

*****SAD SMILE*****

 

[Unkotare]

This whole conversation got off track. Philosophy needs to be differentiated from metaphysics, though there is often an overlap.....

Metaphysics is a branch of Philosophy.

 

[Treeshepherd]

The meaning of life is death if we use simple logic... However a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values. For one man, or woman, it is all right to kill your neighbor to obtain his holdings and for the next it is morally and ethically repulsive. Each person has their own values. We all live in a imperfect world and are...

The deeper meanings cannot be derived from logic. There is nothing illogical (other than the fear of punishment) about killing your neighbor to obtain his holdings.

 

[Unkotare]

Philosophy is prescriptive, because it's the study of existence. It acts as a guiding principle for behavior......

That doesn't follow.

 

[Treeshepherd]

This whole conversation got off track. Philosophy needs to be differentiated from metaphysics, though there is often an overlap.....

Metaphysics is a branch of Philosophy.

Well, I did say that there is often an overlap.

 

[Unkotare]

a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values.

Then you're not talking about morality.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Philosophy is prescriptive, because it's the study of existence. It acts as a guiding principle for behavior......

That doesn't follow.

It's straight out of the dictionary.

: the study of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a particular set of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a set of ideas about how to do something or how to live

Philosophy Definition of philosophy by Merriam-Webster

 

[Unkotare]

This whole conversation got off track. Philosophy needs to be differentiated from metaphysics, though there is often an overlap.....

Metaphysics is a branch of Philosophy.

Well, I did say that there is often an overlap.

That's not what "overlap" means.

 

[Unkotare]

Philosophy is prescriptive, because it's the study of existence. It acts as a guiding principle for behavior......

That doesn't follow.

It's straight out of the dictionary.

: the study of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a particular set of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a set of ideas about how to do something or how to live

Philosophy Definition of philosophy by Merriam-Webster

Only the last entry (from no less an authority on Philosophy than a dictionary... ) can be reasonably interpreted as prescriptive.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

The meaning of life is death if we use simple logic... However a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values. For one man, or woman, it is all right to kill your neighbor to obtain his holdings and for the next it is morally and ethically repulsive. Each person has their own values. We all live in a imperfect world and are...

The deeper meanings cannot be derived from logic. There is nothing illogical (other than the fear of punishment) about killing your neighbor to obtain his holdings.

True. The deeper meanings can't be derived from mere logic. The meaning of brotherhood (liking your neighbor), safety in holding common ideals (culture), or simply finding the idea repulsive, are all abstract concepts which require more than simple logic and will vary from individual to individual. They deal with the human psyche which is horridly convoluted to say the least.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values.

Then you're not talking about morality.

Both are constantly changing values in societies...

In which way do you see me misspeaking?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Unkotare]

a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values.

Then you're not talking about morality.

Both are constantly changing values in societies...

No, that is not what morality means.

 

[Boss]

I'd like to hear more of his 'spiritual' beliefs.

I'd like to hear more of your spiritual beliefs, Unkotare as well.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

a sense of ethics and morality is a constantly shifting ocean of societal values.

Then you're not talking about morality.

Both are constantly changing values in societies...

No, that is not what morality means.

I haven't posted a 'meaning' for morality.

If you desire me to leave out the ethics that's fine. However...

**************************************************************************

mo·ral·i·ty
məˈralədē/
noun
noun: morality

1. principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
   synonyms: ethics, rights and wrongs, ethicalityMore
   "the morality of nuclear weapons"
   virtue, goodness, good behavior, righteousness, rectitude, uprightness;
   morals, principles, honesty, integrity, propriety, honor, justice, decency;
   ethics, standards/principles of behavior, mores, standards
   "a sharp decline in morality"
   • a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society.
     plural noun: moralities
     "a bourgeois morality"
   • the extent to which an action is right or wrong.
     "behind all the arguments lies the issue of the morality of the possession of nuclear weapons"

***********************************************************************************

It would appear that both are intertwined.

Would you care to provide a definition and explain your disagreement?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I'd like to hear more of his 'spiritual' beliefs.

I'd like to hear more of your spiritual beliefs, Unkotare as well.

I have many spiritual beliefs... Some taken from the monotheistic religions and some from other religions. The Ten Commandments of the monotheistic religions are a good starting point. However I do kinda' like the Native American beliefs such as the one I've posted above.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Unkotare]

Copy and paste from Merriam-Webster...



This is why we are unlikely to ever have a serious discussion of Philosophy here.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Copy and paste from Merriam-Webster...



This is why we are unlikely to ever have a serious discussion of Philosophy here.

We are having a serious conversation. You questioned what I posted and I've added clarity. Something that you have not provided in any way, shape, or form... Even when asked to provide such. To understand each other there must be a common ground for reference. Do you disagree with the definition provided? If so then it is your responsibility to provide explain of what you find inaccurate with the definition.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Treeshepherd]

Copy and paste from Merriam-Webster...



This is why we are unlikely to ever have a serious discussion of Philosophy here.

Your basic M.O. is to nitpick, which is why you're a minor impediment to having a quality general discussion. And incidentally, if we're going to establish the definition of a word, why wouldn't we copy and paste it from a dictionary?

My general point is that there's a reason for having two different forums; one on religion and another on philosophy. I love both subjects, but the question posed here is whether science trumps philosophy.

One of Kierkegaard's main themes was that the most powerful truths are deeply personal, and based on personal experience. They're derived from life experiences, and certainly not from the scientific method.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Is Unkotare a troll? Science is a poor tool for answering that question. "Troll" has no scientific definition. It is a proverbial term and proverbs are within the domain of philosophy. A better way to answer the question would be to use the Socratic Method.

Socrates: Does science trump philosophy?
Unkotare: You have crumbs in your beard.
Socrates: Indeed. Would you like one of these scones.
Unkotare: Those are not scones.
Socrates: What would you call them?
Unkotare: It's not my responsibility to educate imbeciles.

One could construct a Socratic dialogue to illustrate the trollish nature of Unkotare. But, there would still be room for debate. And unlike demonstrated science and pure mathematics, the truth would not be absolute. It's possible, for example, that the trollish behavior of Unkotare is not a permanent condition. Maybe he could keep his blood sugar up, or take a daily nap, or seek therapy. Also, I don't remember any specific examples but I'm sure I've witnessed Unkotare be generous upon occasion... even humorous. So he can't be absolutely defined as a troll, which after all has no scientific definition.

And this is why science can never trump philosophy. Many truths are too elusive to be completely defined.