Donald Trump suggested Wednesday that he would allow exceptions to let some undocumented immigrants

[Al Azar]

The OP mentioned only the undocumented,

Someone sneaks over the border.....how are they documented?
How are the undocumented not here illegally?

You can't wrap your head around the big word? Undocumented means there's no evidence they're not who and what they claim to be. If a fellow who doesn't speak English and is unfamiliar with our customs claims he was born in Los Angeles, we have no way of proving he wasn't because he's undocumented.

Catch someone sneaking across the border and he's not undocumented, he's an illegal caught in the act. His arrest for being caught sneaking across the border documents his status as an illegal immigrant. But just suspect someone of sneaking across the border and you can call him any name in the book but you can't do a thing about it.

We don't have a mandatory national ID card in this country. It would solve so many problems if we did, from immigration to voting eligibility, but there are people in this country with political objections to having to acquire a national ID, establishing such a database with their personal info in it (like they aren't already in a database like that) so we're all stuck with dealing with major social problems for the lack of it.

The "illegal immigrant" tag cover two different groups of people in the country with distinct differences in status. One is the actual illegal, someone who we can document came into this country illegally by being caught at the border, or came here legally on a visa and didn't go home when they were supposed to. These people are arrested and deported as fast as we can process them.

The other group who certain people like to lump in with illegals is the many undocumented people we have in this country. We think they shouldn't be here but we can't prove it. There's no record of them arriving here, there's no record of them visiting and their visit exceeding its expiration date, there's no record of anything that would allow us to take action against them.

We can ask them to go back home, or get them into a situation where it might seem to them to be in their best interests to own up and volunteer to go back home, but we can't force them to do a thing because it's impossible to prove they weren't born in the US if they claim they were.

And that's because they're undocumented.

If a fellow who doesn't speak English and is unfamiliar with our customs claims he was born in Los Angeles, we have no way of proving he wasn't because he's undocumented.

He can't prove he was born in Los Angeles? Sorry Charlie, buh-bye.

But just suspect someone of sneaking across the border and you can call him any name in the book but you can't do a thing about it.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but we don't have to let someone stay here simply because they managed to sneak in and ditch their ID.

Hey, it's that pesky constitution standing between you and mass deportation of undesirables. Take it up with the founding fathers.

Can you point to the relevant section protecting non-citizen, undocumented illegal aliens from deportation?

Funny. One is either a non-citizen or undocumented. Can't be both. Still struggling with that big word, eh?

Chew on these:

DHS bears the burden of proving alienage in all cases. United States ex. rel. Bilokumsky v. Tod, 263 U.S. 149, 153 (1923) ("the burden of proving alienage rests upon the Government").


After alienage is proven, if respondent is charged with deportability under INA § 237, the government bears the burden of proving deportability by clear and convincing evidence. INA § 240(c)(3); 8 C.F.R. § 1240.8(a). http://www.ailf.org/lac/lac_pa_110503.pdf (American Immigration Law Foundation)

So the first hurdle we face is proving alienage, which is essentially impossible when there is no evidence proving a person wasn't born where says he was. We can't prove a negative.

If we somehow manage to prove alienage, then we have to prove that the individual os deportable.

Are you beginning to realize why we have 10-12 million undocumented people walking around without the government doing anything about it? This is why.

And this is why President Reagan gave amnesty to millions of them back in the '80s. There's nothing else we can do. We can't deport them, so it's either create a path to establishing citizenship, out keep them in the shadows as parasites. There's no legal third option.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The OP mentioned only the undocumented,

Someone sneaks over the border.....how are they documented?
How are the undocumented not here illegally?

You can't wrap your head around the big word? Undocumented means there's no evidence they're not who and what they claim to be. If a fellow who doesn't speak English and is unfamiliar with our customs claims he was born in Los Angeles, we have no way of proving he wasn't because he's undocumented.

Catch someone sneaking across the border and he's not undocumented, he's an illegal caught in the act. His arrest for being caught sneaking across the border documents his status as an illegal immigrant. But just suspect someone of sneaking across the border and you can call him any name in the book but you can't do a thing about it.

We don't have a mandatory national ID card in this country. It would solve so many problems if we did, from immigration to voting eligibility, but there are people in this country with political objections to having to acquire a national ID, establishing such a database with their personal info in it (like they aren't already in a database like that) so we're all stuck with dealing with major social problems for the lack of it.

The "illegal immigrant" tag cover two different groups of people in the country with distinct differences in status. One is the actual illegal, someone who we can document came into this country illegally by being caught at the border, or came here legally on a visa and didn't go home when they were supposed to. These people are arrested and deported as fast as we can process them.

The other group who certain people like to lump in with illegals is the many undocumented people we have in this country. We think they shouldn't be here but we can't prove it. There's no record of them arriving here, there's no record of them visiting and their visit exceeding its expiration date, there's no record of anything that would allow us to take action against them.

We can ask them to go back home, or get them into a situation where it might seem to them to be in their best interests to own up and volunteer to go back home, but we can't force them to do a thing because it's impossible to prove they weren't born in the US if they claim they were.

And that's because they're undocumented.

If a fellow who doesn't speak English and is unfamiliar with our customs claims he was born in Los Angeles, we have no way of proving he wasn't because he's undocumented.

He can't prove he was born in Los Angeles? Sorry Charlie, buh-bye.

But just suspect someone of sneaking across the border and you can call him any name in the book but you can't do a thing about it.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but we don't have to let someone stay here simply because they managed to sneak in and ditch their ID.

Hey, it's that pesky constitution standing between you and mass deportation of undesirables. Take it up with the founding fathers.

Can you point to the relevant section protecting non-citizen, undocumented illegal aliens from deportation?

Funny. One is either a non-citizen or undocumented. Can't be both. Still struggling with that big word, eh?

Chew on these:

DHS bears the burden of proving alienage in all cases. United States ex. rel. Bilokumsky v. Tod, 263 U.S. 149, 153 (1923) ("the burden of proving alienage rests upon the Government").


After alienage is proven, if respondent is charged with deportability under INA § 237, the government bears the burden of proving deportability by clear and convincing evidence. INA § 240(c)(3); 8 C.F.R. § 1240.8(a). http://www.ailf.org/lac/lac_pa_110503.pdf (American Immigration Law Foundation)

So the first hurdle we face is proving alienage, which is essentially impossible when there is no evidence proving a person wasn't born where says he was. We can't prove a negative.

If we somehow manage to prove alienage, then we have to prove that the individual os deportable.

Are you beginning to realize why we have 10-12 million undocumented people walking around without the government doing anything about it? This is why.

And this is why President Reagan gave amnesty to millions of them back in the '80s. There's nothing else we can do. We can't deport them, so it's either create a path to establishing citizenship, out keep them in the shadows as parasites. There's no legal third option.

One is either a non-citizen or undocumented.

People who sneak into the country without documents are not citizens as well as undocumented.

So the first hurdle we face is proving alienage, which is essentially impossible when there is no evidence proving a person wasn't born where says he was. We can't prove a negative.

You think someone can sneak in and we're stuck with him.....because he says he was born in LA?
That's funny.

Are you beginning to realize why we have 10-12 million undocumented people walking around without the government doing anything about it?

They aren't doing anything because Dems want voters and Republican donors want cheap workers.

There's nothing else we can do. We can't deport them,

I'll bet we can. And if we crack down on employers, some will deport themselves.

 

[Al Azar]

Chew on these:

DHS bears the burden of proving alienage in all cases. United States ex. rel. Bilokumsky v. Tod, 263 U.S. 149, 153 (1923) ("the burden of proving alienage rests upon the Government").


After alienage is proven, if respondent is charged with deportability under INA § 237, the government bears the burden of proving deportability by clear and convincing evidence. INA § 240(c)(3); 8 C.F.R. § 1240.8(a). http://www.ailf.org/lac/lac_pa_110503.pdf (American Immigration Law Foundation)

So the first hurdle we face is proving alienage, which is essentially impossible when there is no evidence proving a person wasn't born where says he was. We can't prove a negative.

If we somehow manage to prove alienage, then we have to prove that the individual os deportable.

Are you beginning to realize why we have 10-12 million undocumented people walking around without the government doing anything about it? This is why.

And this is why President Reagan gave amnesty to millions of them back in the '80s. There's nothing else we can do. We can't deport them, so it's either create a path to establishing citizenship, out keep them in the shadows as parasites. There's no legal third option.

From today's headlines, a case in point.

Appeals Court Says Using Fake Social Security Number Doesn't Have To Mean Deportation

"The appeals court said the immigration judge is wrong because falsely using a Social Security number isn't inherently base, vile or depraved.

"In a concurring opinion, Judge Richard Posner said the government's effort to prosecute and deport Arias 'would be a waste of taxpayers' money.' He wrote, 'Has the Justice Department nothing better to do with its limited resources than prosecute a mouse? Has prosecutorial discretion flown out the window?'"


In this case, the government had cleared the first hurdle, proving alienage. I suspect the woman admitted it. But the prosecution failed to clear the second hurdle, proving she was deportable. So she remains in country, still in limbo.

This case is remarkable only in that the government was able to prove alienage before moving on to the deportation phase. How many of those 11 million undocumented people milling about in our country do you think are going to admit to being here illegally? How many of those do you think have committed crimes serious enough to make them deportable?

This isn't as easy as it looks, is it? It's hard enough for our government to take action against a target when there's evidence. Imagine how hard it is when there is no evidence at all, as is the case with all the undocumented.

See how silly it is to think that we can legally deport the undocumented?