Doubles standards

[Aristotle]

Very simple. Why do people discount Muhammad's relationship with a younger girl by labeling him a pedophile and not Joseph? Joseph was said to be in his 30's and and Mary (mother of Jesus) to be 13-14. Why do you guys talk about Muhammad and not Joseph who was such a desperate Jew he could only get a female that was between 13 and 14 years of age?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Fair question.

 

[hortysir]

13-15 years old, in Jewish culture, was accepted at the time.

Can you say the same about Islam and a 9 year old girl?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Children of royalty were betrothed at very young ages.

The question would be to determine if the couple had sexual relations.

 

[hortysir]

Children of royalty were betrothed at very young ages.

The question would be to determine if the couple had sexual relations.

Does either apply to Mohamed?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I don't know if they were betrothed or married or had sex.

 

[hortysir]

He's called a "pedophile", so I'm guessing the sex happened.....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Where is the term used? It has to be from contemporary sources that can be trusted. It cannot be an extrapolation by later sources.

 

[Meathead]

Yup, the prophet deflowered Aisha at 9 years old. There is a lot of difference between a 9 and a 12 year old.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, the prophet deflowered Aisha at 9 years old. There is a lot of difference between a 9 and a 12 year old.

The source must be contemporary and believable, so give us one, because you are neither.

 

[Meathead]

Yup, the prophet deflowered Aisha at 9 years old. There is a lot of difference between a 9 and a 12 year old.

The source must be contemporary and believable, so give us one, because you are neither.

Why on earth would a contemporary source be more believable on the rape of a child 1400 years ago. I can only imagine that you prefer your history through the filter of political correctness.

At 9 she was too young, even by Bedouin standards of the time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, the prophet deflowered Aisha at 9 years old. There is a lot of difference between a 9 and a 12 year old.

The source must be contemporary and believable, so give us one, because you are neither.

Why on earth would a contemporary source be more believable on the rape of a child 1400 years ago. I can only imagine that you prefer your history through the filter of political correctness.

At 9 she was too young, even by Bedouin standards of the time.

Contemporary with her time, please. What are the sources? Today's sources don't count.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Was Muhammad a pedophile

Answer A
The simple answer is no. However the answer is more complex than it might look on the surface.
One of Muhammad's wives was Ayesha or Aisha. Depending on what sources are used her age at marriage is sometimes put at 6 and consummation at 9. However there are a number of facts which need to be factored in.
1: Not all sources agree with Bukhari about Ayesha's age, Bukhari's Hadith were not collated until 300-odd years after Muhammad's death. Other sources give Ayesha's age as being 16 at marriage and 19 at consummation.
2: Even if her age were 6 / 9, the custom of taking child brides was a part of Middle-Eastern culture. The Jews practised it as well as many of the other nations in the Middle-East and remember too that Mary of Nazareth's age was probably around the 12-14 mark.
3: Pedophilia is both a sexual dysfunction and a legal one. Muhammad's others wives were adult women with who he apparently had very good relations. This would not normally be the case for a pedophile.
4: Customs and Traditions as well as laws were very different then from now. What is considered unacceptable now was not considered anything to comment about then.
Answer B
I wonder why some non Muslims falsify facts about prophet Muhammad (PBUH). If they don't believe in him as a prophet, then it is their choice and personal freedom. However, I don't understand why they strive to spread lies about the prophet. Why they bother themselves.
Anyhow, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was not pedophile. What said about his marriage from Aisha (God be pleased with her) at age 6 is not true. Aisha was 19 years old when she got married with prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who was at 54 years.

Aisha was 19 years old when she got married. This was in the year 2 A.H. or around year 624 AD. Prophet Mohamed was around 54 years old when married with Aisha (he was born in year 570 AD). Refer to question below for more information.

 

[Avatar4321]

Very simple. Why do people discount Muhammad's relationship with a younger girl by labeling him a pedophile and not Joseph? Joseph was said to be in his 30's and and Mary (mother of Jesus) to be 13-14. Why do you guys talk about Muhammad and not Joseph who was such a desperate Jew he could only get a female that was between 13 and 14 years of age?

Shouldn't we establish what the standard is before we ask about a double standard?

And considering we don't have accurate information on the ages of Mary or Joseph, how can we say someone is holding a double standard?

And quite honestly, Im not going to conclude that Muhammad was a pedophile, even if he was married to a young girl. Just because someone is married does not mean the relationship is consumated. In some eastern cultures, it was customary to marry them young and then not allow consumation till much later.

We are looking at information that at best is over 1000 years old. It's difficult to confirm the accuracy or determine what information comes from the time period and whats a later fabrication. Or determine whether the sources are reliable.

Regardless, the worth of the message preached isnt determined by the goodness of all the participants. Especially since only one person could ever be considered truly Good.

 

[Avatar4321]

He's called a "pedophile", so I'm guessing the sex happened.....

He is called a pedophile, That doesnt necessarily mean he was one.

Christ was called a traitor and a criminal. He was neither. If the only perfect man to walk the earth was falsely accused of horrible crimes, why would we think anyone imperfect would be less suceptible.

 

[Avatar4321]

BTW in our culture, there seems to be a trend in calling anyone over the age of 18 who has sex with someone under the age of 18 a pedofile. This just isn't accurate. We should not throw that label around.

 

[JakeStarkey]

pedophilia - definition of pedophilia in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

pedophilia /pe·do·phil·ia/ (-fil´e-ah) a paraphilia in which an adult has recurrent, intense sexual urges or sexually arousing fantasies of engaging or repeatedly engages in sexual activity with a prepubertal child.pedophil´ic

A comparative example is Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith has been wrongly accused of pedophilia. He has been accused and did probably have sexual intercourse, however, with 14 year old females. In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Signature Books, 1997) is a good study of this. A more generous (to Smith) narrative can be found in the Brian Hales recently released works: Joseph Smith’s Polygamy, 3 volumes.

 

[Meathead]

pedophilia - definition of pedophilia in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

pedophilia /pe·do·phil·ia/ (-fil´e-ah) a paraphilia in which an adult has recurrent, intense sexual urges or sexually arousing fantasies of engaging or repeatedly engages in sexual activity with a prepubertal child.pedophil´ic

A comparative example is Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith has been wrongly accused of pedophilia. He has been accused and did probably have sexual intercourse, however, with 14 year old females. In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Signature Books, 1997) is a good study of this. A more generous (to Smith) narrative can be found in the Brian Hales recently released works: Joseph Smith’s Polygamy, 3 volumes.

I agree that we cannot judge the past by today's standards, but as I said before, at 9 Aisha was too young by even the Bedouin standards of the day.

 

[Meathead]

BTW in our culture, there seems to be a trend in calling anyone over the age of 18 who has sex with someone under the age of 18 a pedofile. This just isn't accurate. We should not throw that label around.

Also agreed, but when a 57 yo boinks (rapes) a 9 yo there is no gray area.

 

[JakeStarkey]

BTW in our culture, there seems to be a trend in calling anyone over the age of 18 who has sex with someone under the age of 18 a pedofile. This just isn't accurate. We should not throw that label around.

Also agreed, but when a 57 yo boinks (rapes) a 9 yo there is no gray area.

Who said it did not? This is not the point, Meathead.