Eliminate Minimum Wage

[Supposn]

You never heard about what happened with the American Samoa economy, and how the United States practically destroyed it by forcing Samoa to abide by American Minimum Wage Laws? The laws mandated that wages were to be increased by 61%. Inflation went from as low as 1.86% in 2005, to as high as 11% in 2007. Unemployment went just as high, if not higher.

Two of Samoa's biggest employers -- Starkist and Chicken of the Sea -- were also hit the hardest. Starkist announced that it was having a 60% reduction in it's workforce in 2011, before the company closed down it's Samoan branch in 2012. The same thing happened to Chicken of the Sea before they were forced to shut down.

American Samoa’s minimum wage.

I don’t know how Samoa government ever came about to determining and updating separate minimum wages for differing industries by what are essentially only opinions. They are now involved in efforts to eventually tie a single minimum wage rate to USA’s main land’s federal minimum wage, (i.e. FMW) rate. It is imprudent to do this in other than a gradual manner.

[I’m among those that recognize the need for a single FMW rate but we also generally wish to avoid granting discretion to government officials. We would have the FMW annually updated by an objective formula applied by civil service statisticians and subject to oversight by our entire federal system of “checks and balances”].
///////////////////////////////////

Excerpted from page vii, of the introduction to “American Samoa’s economic Future
and the Cannery Industry”
[http://www.spc.int/prism/country/as/stats/canneries.pdf]

The Department of Commerce of the American Samoa Government ordered this report to be prepared.

“Cannery Industry Instability.

In the next few years, American Samoa’s canneries could seriously reduce operations or shut down completely as a result of more competitive foreign locations emerging from NAFTA, the Andean Trade Agreement, WTO and other international trade and investment trends.
Of immediate importance to the canneries is the continuation of federal corporate tax incentives in American Samoa and the recent dramatic increases in American Samoa’s minimum wage. The tuna canning industry represents approximately one-half of American Samoa’s economic base”.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I conclude from this (unless the USA changes our entire global trade policy), the American Samoa tuna canning industry will inevitably lose their tuna canaries in the same manner as we on the main land have and continue to lose our factories.
Elimination of the minimum wage in Samoa under our present global trade policy would hasten the progress of American Samoa’s poverty while delaying but not preventing the islands’ inevitable loss of their tuna canning industry.

The difference between Maytag closing down their Illinois refrigerator manufacturing and Starkist closing down their American Samoa tuna canaries is that Starkist and the remainder of the fishing and processing industry are both by proportions and amounts greater in America Samoa’s case than the lesser Maytag refrigerator manufacturing was in Illinois.
/////////////////////////////////////////

Excerpted from post #252 within the thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...tal-to-their-nations-gdps-17.html#post5567793

“…when Maytag moved their refrigerator manufacturing from Illinois to Mexico, they reduced their labor costs from $15/Hr. to $2/Hr.
A 750% difference of labor costs was not a factor that Maytag could ignore but sacrificing USA’s median wage exacerbates rather than remedies our problems.

If Maytag had been granted immunity from all unreasonable and/or reasonable government regulations, taxes and fees, Maytag would still have eventually been driven to leaving the USA. Mexico does not produce superior refrigerators and they do not produce them faster”.

Refer to this thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...tal-to-their-nations-gdps-17.html#post5567793
and to the thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...significantly-reduce-usa-s-trade-deficit.html

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[AmazonTania]

American Samoa’s minimum wage.

I don’t know how Samoa government ever came about to determining and updating separate minimum wages for differing industries by what are essentially only opinions. They are now involved in efforts to eventually tie a single minimum wage rate to USA’s main land’s federal minimum wage, (i.e. FMW) rate. It is imprudent to do this in other than a gradual manner.

American Samoa is a US territoriy. They have already tied their minimum wage to the US Federal Rate. Did you not read what I have wrote to you?

[I’m among those that recognize the need for a single FMW rate but we also generally wish to avoid granting discretion to government officials. We would have the FMW annually updated by an objective formula applied by civil service statisticians and subject to oversight by our entire federal system of “checks and balances”].

I don't see how this is relevant...

I conclude from this (unless the USA changes our entire global trade policy), the American Samoa tuna canning industry will inevitably lose their tuna canaries in the same manner as we on the main land have and continue to lose our factories.

Elimination of the minimum wage in Samoa under our present global trade policy would hasten the progress of American Samoa’s poverty while delaying but not preventing the islands’ inevitable loss of their tuna canning industry.

It's too late for that. You've already made their biggest suppliers of Tuna shut down and many more are about to shutdown because they were forced to enact your wage laws. As of 2012, their unemployment rate was 29.8% according to the CIA World Fact book.

The difference between Maytag closing down their Illinois refrigerator manufacturing and Starkist closing down their American Samoa tuna canaries is that Starkist and the remainder of the fishing and processing industry are both by proportions and amounts greater in America Samoa’s case than the lesser Maytag refrigerator manufacturing was in Illinois.
/////////////////////////////////////////

That doesn't make sense.

Excerpted from post #252 within the thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...tal-to-their-nations-gdps-17.html#post5567793

“…when Maytag moved their refrigerator manufacturing from Illinois to Mexico, they reduced their labor costs from $15/Hr. to $2/Hr.
A 750% difference of labor costs was not a factor that Maytag could ignore but sacrificing USA’s median wage exacerbates rather than remedies our problems.

If Maytag had been granted immunity from all unreasonable and/or reasonable government regulations, taxes and fees, Maytag would still have eventually been driven to leaving the USA. Mexico does not produce superior refrigerators and they do not produce them faster”.

Refer to this thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...tal-to-their-nations-gdps-17.html#post5567793
and to the thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...significantly-reduce-usa-s-trade-deficit.html

Respectfully, Supposn

If Americans can't produce refrigerators and compete in the world marketplace by exporting, then it shouldn't be in the business of producing refrigerators. There are plenty of First World nations who can produce things and still retain high wages for their workers. You need to figure out what you are doing wrong, and what those countries are doing right.

 

[lynn63]

They won't eliminate minimum wage because the government doesn't want to support you.

 

[Supposn]

Minimum wage’s effect upon the working poor and middle income employees.

I’m among the proponents of that minimum rate be annually adjusted to stay abreast to the U.S. dollar’s purchasing power.

Opponents of the FMW prefer it be entirely eliminated. In that case it would naturally be replaced by an indefinite market determined minimum rate which would have almost no explicit bottom. That minimum rate would differ from day to day and between differing local labor markets. I can offer no logical rational that would be of value to predict the indefinite minimum bench mark’s purchasing powers.

All of these alternative minimums rates share some common attributes:
They act as a minimum “bench marks” that are applicable to the least demanding and unpleasant tasks or offered to the least desirable employees.

They do not limit or hinder maximum rates of any jobs.

Excluding jobs with tasks that require labor that’s in short supply, the minimum rate affects all USA job rates.

The proportional effect of the minimum rate upon jobs’ rates are inversely related to the differences between the minimum’s rate and the jobs’ rates.

Market determined minimum USA local labor market rates (that would serve as the minimum bench marks). That would then be the rate offered for the least demanding tasks or the least desirable job applicants. Because it’s costing the enterprise less, their hiring criteria will be lower.

The FMW rate’s minimum purchasing power’s contribution to any jobs’ rates are the differences between the purchasing power of the imaginary indefinite market determined rate and the FMW rate.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
If we eliminated the FMW.

If we eliminated the FMW, many additional jobs which previously did not justify the FMW would be created; but almost all of them would pay with wages of extremely lesser than the FMW rate’s purchasing power. The lesser purchasing power of wages would ripple through our entire economy. The consequences would be economically net detrimental to our nation and our families most dependent upon employment incomes will be the most severely harmed.

How low would the minimum wages be? I don’t believe that under $2/Hr. would be an unreasonable guesstimate and $5/Hr. is unreasonably optimistic. Using those figures and applying what I’m considering a logical rational, the current FMW’s contribution to the wage’s purchasing powers are a minimum of (7.25 – 5) to (7.25-2) = a minimum of $2.25/Hr. to $5.25/Hr.

Let’s apply that range to current wage earnings of the minimum which is $7.25/Hr. and to earnings exceeding three times the minimum, (i.e. $25/Hr.).

The estimated range of benefit due to an individual earning $7.25/Hr.
is [2.25/7.25 to 5.25/7.25] = [0.36 to 0.60]

The estimated range of benefit due to an individual earning $25.00/Hr.
is [2.25/25.0 to 5.25/25.0] = [0.09 to 0.21]

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

...If Americans can't produce refrigerators and compete in the world marketplace by exporting, then it shouldn't be in the business of producing refrigerators. There are plenty of First World nations who can produce things and still retain high wages for their workers. You need to figure out what you are doing wrong, and what those countries are doing right.

Amazon Tania, Mexico didn’t produce better refrigerators, or produce them faster, or find a superior method to produce them. If Maytag’s machinery was worth the net costs to Maytag, they took a tax deduction for shipping that to Mexico. Their Mexican production costs are less expensive because their labor and all other costs derived from their cheaper labor are less.

I do not fault Maytag. We must do what we must to function within the environment we must function within. I fault the trade policies that the U.S. Congress supports. If we adopted the Import Certificate policy, we would increase our GDP, Our median wage, our exports and increase the sum of our aggregate imports plus exports. We could still enjoy the benefits of less expensive imports but we cannot afford the absolutely cheapest; they cost us too much.

USA’s wage earning families benefit from less expensive imports but that doesn’t compensate them for our trade deficit of goods net detriment to our economy. The greatest cost due to that trade deficit is in the form of jobs.

The government realizes no net revenue due to this policy and the entire direct expenses are eventually paid by USA purchasers of imported goods.

Refer to this thread
Trade deficits are ALWAYS detrimental to their nations’ GDPs.
and to the thread
Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

You keep repeating that half of earners make less than the median income. I can only assume that you somehow think that is related to your support of raising minimum wage.

Skull Pilot, I assume you're quoting me correctlly. I apparently (but slightly) overstated my case,

I should have written that less than half of USA employees earn more, and less than half of USA employees earn less than the median wage rate.

Think about it; with no actual statistics I logically conclude it’s unlikely that the two segments would be EXACTLY EQUAL unless there’s only one individual that earns EXACTLY the median wage rate.

The median wage rate is significant because the FMW affect upon a job’s rate is inversely related to the difference between minimum's and the jobs’ rate’s purchasing powers.

Refer to post #304.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[thereisnospoon]

If they all went to get better jobs, who would do theirs? It's nothing but an arrogant disregard for others to characterize anyone who works for minimum wage as a welfare leech. Thanks for reminding me why we need those laws and why I'll never vote Republican.

THAT argument? Please.
Yiou defy logic.
It is the human spirit and the desire to accomplish which drives us to move 'up'...
What is it about you liberals and your desire to increase the number of people willing to remain on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder? Why would anyone wish this on another person?

 

[Supposn]

... i’m among those that recognize the need for a single FMW rate but we also generally wish to avoid granting discretion to government officials. We would have the FMW annually updated by an objective formula applied by civil service statisticians and subject to oversight by our entire federal system of “checks and balances”].

I don't see how this is relevant...

Amazon Tania, the federal minimum wage, (FMW) laws are of net benefit to our economy. The FMW would be of greater benefit if our Congress would legislate more logically and consistently. The determination of policy is political that should and is the function of our congress. The oversight of our entire government, monitoring the monitors, participating in our system of checks and balances should certainly be the concern of congress.

To the extent of keeping the FMW consistently abreast to the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar would greatly increase the FMW’s economic benefit to our nation. That’s a task best left to out federal statisticians and mathematicians; politicians don’t do it right.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

American Samoa’s minimum wage.

It's too late for that. You've already made their biggest suppliers of Tuna shut down and many more are about to shutdown because they were forced to enact your wage laws. As of 2012, their unemployment rate was 29.8% according to the CIA World Fact book.

The difference between Maytag closing down their Illinois refrigerator manufacturing and Starkist closing down their American Samoa tuna canaries is that Starkist and the remainder of the fishing and processing industry are both by proportions and amounts greater in America Samoa’s case than the lesser Maytag refrigerator manufacturing was in Illinois.

That doesn't make sense.

Excerpted from post #252 within the thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...tal-to-their-nations-gdps-17.html#post5567793

“…when Maytag moved their refrigerator manufacturing from Illinois to Mexico, they reduced their labor costs from $15/Hr. to $2/Hr.
A 750% difference of labor costs was not a factor that Maytag could ignore but sacrificing USA’s median wage exacerbates rather than remedies our problems.

If Maytag had been granted immunity from all unreasonable and/or reasonable government regulations, taxes and fees, Maytag would still have eventually been driven to leaving the USA. Mexico does not produce superior refrigerators and they do not produce them faster”.

Refer to this thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...tal-to-their-nations-gdps-17.html#post5567793
and to the thread
http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...significantly-reduce-usa-s-trade-deficit.html

Amazon Tania, you resigned your citizenship? They’re not MY FMW laws; they’re ours.
The American Samoan canneries couldn’t pay higher wages because USA tolerates our trade deficit of goods which places all USA enterprises at a disadvantage if they compete or aspire to compete with goods imported from low wage nations. American Samoa’s canneries were USA enterprises.

Illinois was injured but not crippled by the loss of Maytag’s factory because it was a lesser proportion of Illinois’s total production in comparison of what was the tuna canneries’ proportion of American Samoa’s total production.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

You defy logic.
It is the human spirit and the desire to accomplish which drives us to move 'up'...
What is it about you liberals and your desire to increase the number of people willing to remain on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder? Why would anyone wish this on another person?

TheirIsNoSpoon, no, you ignore two simple facts; a legal minimum rate does not create a limiting ceiling but it establishes a floor upon which people may attempt to better themselves and thus better their nation.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

Ever since the liberals invented minimum wage laws the welfare leeches that couldn't get a free ride from the tax payers have depended on minimum wage laws. This makes the government force employers to overpay the lazy workers who would be sitting at home if they could. Instead of more of Obama's socialism by raising the minimum wage we should eliminate the minimum wage all together. This would bring prices down and let higher wage earners be able to afford a better lifestyle. It would raise profits and best of all it would motivate the lazy welfare leeches to go find better jobs that pay more if they want to survive. The liberals will boo hoo and cry for the poor but that is because most of them are the bums that are to lazy to go find a decent job and want to live off the hard working conservatives.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/b...income-distribution.html?partner=yahoofinance

This certainly helps the argument that the cons want to get rid of the middle class, where they've made great strides, so far.

That's just stupid. Republicans are business people. There is more prosperity with a strong middle class. Our goal is to help everyone who wants to achieve prosperity to be provided with an opportunity. We expand the middle class, and never reduce it. It's good business to have a strong middle class. From where do you get your talking point misrepresentations, pray tell?

B,S. you didnt figure out how it works did ya? the bussiness people dont want an unemployment rate at 1% that would equal a strong middle class. They would have to pay more for labor... dont you get it? less workers to choose from, they can demand a higher salary.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Amazon Tania, Samoa? Please explain.
Respectfully, Supposn

You never heard about what happened with the American Samoa economy, and how the United States practically destroyed it by forcing Samoa to abide by American Minimum Wage Laws? The laws mandated that wages were to be increased by 61%. Inflation went from as low as 1.86% in 2005, to as high as 11% in 2007. Unemployment went just as high, if not higher.

Two of Samoa's biggest employers -- Starkist and Chicken of the Sea -- were also hit the hardest. Starkist announced that it was having a 60% reduction in it's workforce in 2011, before the company closed down it's Samoan branch in 2012. The same thing happened to Chicken of the Sea before they were forced to shut down.

double post

 

[Wyatt earp]

This certainly helps the argument that the cons want to get rid of the middle class, where they've made great strides, so far.

That's just stupid. Republicans are business people. There is more prosperity with a strong middle class. Our goal is to help everyone who wants to achieve prosperity to be provided with an opportunity. We expand the middle class, and never reduce it. It's good business to have a strong middle class. From where do you get your talking point misrepresentations, pray tell?

B,S. you didnt figure out how it works did ya? the bussiness people dont want an unemployment rate at 1% that would equal a strong middle class. They would have to pay more for labor... dont you get it? less workers to choose from, they can demand a higher salary.

and thats the thing how we are getting burned by both the democrats and republicans. It is so easy to figure out. High unemployment=votes for the democrats. Low unemployment = cut in profits~ and the cons dont want that.

 

[Supposn]

Excerpted from post #304:

Minimum wage’s effect upon the working poor and middle income employees. ...
... How low would the minimum wages be? I don’t believe that under $2/Hr. would be an unreasonable guesstimate and $5/Hr. is unreasonably optimistic. ...Respectfully, Supposn

I regret that I wasn’t more explicit within post #304 questioning as “How low would the minimum wages be?”, wasn’t clearer and more explicitly worded.

I should have been more explicitly expressed the question as
”How much lower (than the curbetween rent $7.25 FMW rate) would the purchasing powers of a replacing indefinite non-legally binding USA’s labor markets’ minimum bench marks usually be?.
Indefinite minimum wage rate bench mark's purchasing powers' ranging between less than $2.25 through less than $5.25/Hr. are resasonable guesstimates".

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

Excerpted from post #304:

Minimum wage’s effect upon the working poor and middle income employees. ...
... How low would the minimum wages be? I don’t believe that under $2/Hr. would be an unreasonable guesstimate and $5/Hr. is unreasonably optimistic. ...Respectfully, Supposn

I regret that I wasn’t more explicit within post #304 questioning as “How low would the minimum wages be?”, wasn’t clearer and more explicitly worded.

I should have been more explicitly expressed the question as
”How much lower (than the curbetween rent $7.25 FMW rate) would the purchasing powers of a replacing indefinite non-legally binding USA’s labor markets’ minimum bench marks usually be?.
Indefinite minimum wage rate bench mark's purchasing powers' ranging between less than $2.25 through less than $5.25/Hr. are resasonable guesstimates".

Respectfully, Supposn

but sir your forgetting about something.....what about no jobs? = no money. its hilarious the way the left talks and thinks..

 

[Cecilie1200]

If they all went to get better jobs, who would do theirs? It's nothing but an arrogant disregard for others to characterize anyone who works for minimum wage as a welfare leech. Thanks for reminding me why we need those laws and why I'll never vote Republican.

You have fallen onto the liberal trap that stealing from hard working people and giving it to the lazy will help America. Why is this so hard for liberals to see are they really that stupid?

Get back to sucking Rush's wrinkled fat ass you punk bitch. Maybe he'll even let you pay him for the honor to do so, screw minimum wage!

Translation: "I have no response! Wah wah wah!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ever since the liberals invented minimum wage laws the welfare leeches that couldn't get a free ride from the tax payers have depended on minimum wage laws. This makes the government force employers to overpay the lazy workers who would be sitting at home if they could. Instead of more of Obama's socialism by raising the minimum wage we should eliminate the minimum wage all together. This would bring prices down and let higher wage earners be able to afford a better lifestyle. It would raise profits and best of all it would motivate the lazy welfare leeches to go find better jobs that pay more if they want to survive. The liberals will boo hoo and cry for the poor but that is because most of them are the bums that are to lazy to go find a decent job and want to live off the hard working conservatives.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/b...income-distribution.html?partner=yahoofinance

Minimum wage laws started in New Zealand in the late 1800s. I seriously doubt they were liberals.

Really? WHY do you "seriously doubt that"?

Now you are equating minimum wage with socialism and over 90% of the countries in the world have minimum wage laws. Look at Germany that doesn't have a minimum wage law and requires individual industries to set a minimum wage by collective bargaining. If you really want to find a country that doesn't have a minimum wage or de facto minimum wage law, you have to go to a failed state like Somalia. Afghanistan and Iraq have minimum wage laws.

You need to report to a university and prove the Neanderthals haven't went extinct, like they thought.

I fail to understand why you think you have somehow proven that minimum wage laws are NOT socialism by first telling us that Germany has another method of being socialist in this regard, and then by informing us that other countries have the same socialism.

 

[Wyatt earp]

this is funny to me..... Guess the left wants to use super computers to perdict the weather and what would happen if we eliminated the mw, instead of common sense and human behavior patterns.

 

[Cecilie1200]

wouldnt be awesome to see every minimum wage job left unfilled and employers complaining that nobody is applying for those jobs? That is the american dream. If you pay me minimum wage do you really really in your wildest dreams expect me to be a good employee?

If you really think the pay YOU agreed to accept is not enough to justify you being a good employee, do you really, REALLY in your wildest dreams expect anyone to think you're worth MORE?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ever since the liberals invented minimum wage laws the welfare leeches that couldn't get a free ride from the tax payers have depended on minimum wage laws. This makes the government force employers to overpay the lazy workers who would be sitting at home if they could. Instead of more of Obama's socialism by raising the minimum wage we should eliminate the minimum wage all together. This would bring prices down and let higher wage earners be able to afford a better lifestyle. It would raise profits and best of all it would motivate the lazy welfare leeches to go find better jobs that pay more if they want to survive. The liberals will boo hoo and cry for the poor but that is because most of them are the bums that are to lazy to go find a decent job and want to live off the hard working conservatives.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/b...income-distribution.html?partner=yahoofinance

The majority of minimum wage earners are high school students and part-timers. I figure the part timers are either lazy or it is all they can find. I am very socially conservative, but I can not agree with this OP

Part-timers aren't always lazy by any stretch of the imagination. Many times, they have other things they're doing with the bulk of their time - like another job, or school, or caring for kids - and just need a little extra income. I myself have a part-time job, in addition to a full-time job, for precisely this reason.