Elizabeth Warren: 'End Electoral College'

[M14 Shooter]

listen to your messiah

You agree with Trump?
Does your local party secretary know?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well there seems to be the drumbeat of that again...
Getting rid of electoral college means rural America might as well not even vote, They would lose every single election.

And this is why it will never happen - the rural states will stop it.

/discussion.

 

[Cosmos]

Elizabeth Warren goes to Mississippi and campaigns against the Electoral College. Just let that sink in.

Never underestimate either the pure evil of Elizabeth Warren and the rest of the Democrat field pushing this.........or the stupidity of a Mississippi Democrat voter.

 

[Slade3200]

The other way to fix the electoral college system is to tie the number of electoral votes each state gets to it's actual population.

What about dividing up the number of votes according the a percentage of the popular vote instead of winner takes all. For example. California has 55 electoral votes. If candidate A wins 30% of the vote they get 16 votes and candidate B with 70% gets 39 votes. Some states do this. Doesn’t that seem more fair and representative of the people?

Sure but that would have to go along with adjusting the number of electoral votes to actually be representative of the population of that state. For example California is too low currently.

Sounds good to me!

 

[toobfreak]

If we went to a popular vote, the needs of Montana would be completely ignored by populist demagogues who would only campaign in urban centers.

That's why.

You're welcome.

That doesn`t justify a Montana vote being worth more than my Pennsylvania vote.

States have nothing to do with individual votes. Within a given state, ALL VOTES COUNT EQUAL. Quit trying to spin the topic! That is an argument created by your kind as an argument for mob rule. No matter how you cook it, eliminate the Electoral College as designed by the Founders and democrat states win big, will never lose again and the other 2/3rds of the country BE DAMNED.

.
There is simply no such thing as "democrat [sic] states". Or even "Democrat states". Nor is there such a thing as "Republican states". NO STATE ANYWHERE is a monolith. There are no "red states", no "blue states", no "battleground states". ***ALL*** of these are artificial and bullshit concepts created by the WTA-EC, without which said bullshit concepts cease to exist, along with the divisiveness that comes with them, and good fucking riddance.

Lessee: California and New York have voted Blue since 1992. That is 31 years since they elected a republican. Let me know the next time they vote GOP again. These are BLUE STATES now, by design, no matter how you want to spin it.

2019-1992=27

How did you get 31?

Simple "school teacher with a masters degree." I was referring to the four years earlier (if you read) when the last time was these states DID vote red! Neither state has voted red since Reagan's second term! And we know Ca only voted for him then because he had been a popular governor and proactive actor there. Further proof why public school kids are in the fucking dumper these days. And despite the fact that a large part of Ca is still red and most of NYS, SanFran democrats and NYC dems have so over run their states, these people no longer have any voice in their state elections! I know---- I know many who live there.

 

[RDD_1210]

We can eliminate the EC but then you allow me to vote on candidates like Omar and AOC too. Cannot have it both ways.

Don't be dumb.

Ahhh we are into ad Hominems. So you lost the debate. Next

Great, you've declared me the loser. Are you done now?

Actually you declared yourself a loser.

So is that a yes? Are you done?

 

[RDD_1210]

Actually you are really just rambling. But let me know when you have a coherent point you want to make that's relevant.

Bullshit. These reps have voting power as you saw in the Kav case. They don’t just represent their states and districts. Let me know when you want to be civil again. You have one more chance.

Let me know when you want to have a real discussion. Your "point" is borderline retarded. I don't know how else to put it. If you want a stronger voice representing you... Elect someone else. But you have no right to say who a different area has elected to represent them.

Except that’s no longer the case. Because of committees and such the “I represent my district” is a thing of the past.

So go ahead and advocate that committees are done away with if they bother you so much.

No. I am with you. Lets have a nation wide vote for all in Congress and POTUS.

I don't hold much sway, but I'm glad you think so highly of me. I'm touched.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Bullshit. These reps have voting power as you saw in the Kav case. They don’t just represent their states and districts. Let me know when you want to be civil again. You have one more chance.

Let me know when you want to have a real discussion. Your "point" is borderline retarded. I don't know how else to put it. If you want a stronger voice representing you... Elect someone else. But you have no right to say who a different area has elected to represent them.

Except that’s no longer the case. Because of committees and such the “I represent my district” is a thing of the past.

So go ahead and advocate that committees are done away with if they bother you so much.

No. I am with you. Lets have a nation wide vote for all in Congress and POTUS.

I don't hold much sway, but I'm glad you think so highly of me. I'm touched.

Keep in touch with yourself.

 

[Pogo]

Elizabeth Warren goes to Mississippi and campaigns against the Electoral College. Just let that sink in.

Never underestimate either the pure evil of Elizabeth Warren and the rest of the Democrat field pushing this.........or the stupidity of a Mississippi Democrat voter.

What's your point here?

 

[Toronado3800]

Ok, Southern California Would displace five states in the northern plains, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana and Idaho.

Cali already wipes out those states with EC votes. Ca has 55... ND (3) SD(3) WY(3) MT(3) and ID(4) add up to 16. What’s else you got?

You’re not understanding, those EC votes add up as seen in 2016. With a pure popular vote the votes just are not there to make any difference... Never have been and never will be.

You are assuming that the popular votes and campaigning would remain the same if the system were changed. That isn’t the case

The result would would fuck over Rural America... The whole point of going to a pure popular vote

Rural California which represents millions of Republicans can make a case for being unrepresented in the presidential election under our current system can they not?

So can downtown St Louis and Kansas City then. Why should they have to pay for the repeated flood plain welfare suckers?

 

[Pogo]

Time to end the racist Electoral College. It was created by racists for racist reasons.

It does not matter how many times you repeat your lie, it remains a lie.

Gainsaying doesn't change the fact that it was deliberately set up as a stacked deck in favor of the slaveholding states who got to apportion themselves counting three-fifths of their slaves while granting those slaves zero-fifths of a vote,.meaning they had disporportionate power compared to non-slaveholding states. That's just, again, historical fact.

Ever sit in school civics class and wonder why four of the first five POTUSes (and 8 of the first 9 terms) were guys from Virginia? Well, that's it. another mystery solved. And all four were slaveholders. African slavery could not exist without a pre-foundation of racism to justify it.

That's also why this hallucinatory post above:

The Electoral College has everything to do with EQUAL REPRESENTATION of everyone

--- is utter malarkey. It was anything BUT equal, not to mention the vote, where it existed at all, was limited to men, and limited to white men, and often limited to white men who owned property. There is no definition of "EVERYBODY" that can shoehorn in there.

Of course that's not the only reason the EC was contrived but it's one of the three that no longer apply.

 

[gipper]

Time to end the racist Electoral College. It was created by racists for racist reasons.

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate the fact that you can't fix stupid, especially when 'stupid' does not want to change'...and proving you certainly can recite a fake news liberal talking point.


The Electoral College has everything to do with EQUAL REPRESENTATION of everyone, to equally represent the concerns of those Americans living in 'fly-over states' as well as densely populated population centers like New York and California.

If the Electoral College is abandoned there will be no need to visit, campaign in, listen to, pay any attention to those smaller states. They will be able to do what Hillary ignorantly did in 2016 - completely ignore and avoid campaigning in some states.

The United States Senate EXITS as it does basically because of the same exact reason as the electoral college - EQUAL REPRESENTATION.

Why do you think EVERY state has 2 Representatives in the US Senate instead of states like California having more, as is how it is in the House, or did you simply not give it any thought?
-- The Founding Fathers wanted a branch of government in which every state had equal 'footing' / representation.


This drive from the Leftist Extremists is another knee-jerk reaction / tantrum-throwing session after losing an election in which their corrupt criminal candidate was supposed to win in a landslide....

When Democrats do not get their way / lose their answer is not to try harder next time and play within the Rules. Their response it to cheat more / change the rules.

Hillary could not win a rigged election in a well-known process established / defined in the Constitution by our Founding Fathers.
-- DEMOCRAT SOLUTION: Change the Rules / Constitution, Abolish the Electoral College

Trump, not Hillary became President.
DEMOCRAT SOLUTION: The Obama administration Agency Directors (DOJ, NSA, CIA, & FBI), Hillary. Leftists attempted / are attempting a 'soft coup d'etat'.

Democrats did not hold the WH, and Trump got to appoint a USSC Justice...and perhaps more
-- DEMOCRAT SOLUTION: Change the Rules - expand the court and fill the vacancies to reach a liberal extremist majority THAT way.


SSDD....

I wonder how many D voters actually fall for this transparent effort to stack the deck, in favor of the D Party.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Time to end the racist Electoral College. It was created by racists for racist reasons.

It does not matter how many times you repeat your lie, it remains a lie.

Gainsaying doesn't change the fact that it was deliberately set up as a stacked deck in favor of the slaveholding states who got to apportion themselves counting three-fifths of their slaves while granting those slaves zero-fifths of a vote,.meaning they had disporportionate power compared to non-slaveholding states. That's just, again, historical fact.

Ever sit in school civics class and wonder why four of the first five POTUSes (and 8 of the first 9 terms) were guys from Virginia? Well, that's it. another mystery solved. And all of the four were slaveholders.

/---/ The non slave states - industrialized North had the population far greater than the agricultural South.
BTW
In the 1770s, blacks throughout New England began sending petitions to northern legislatures demanding freedom. Five of the Northern self-declared states adopted policies to at least gradually abolish slavery: Pennsylvania (1780), New Hampshire and Massachusetts (1783), Connecticut and Rhode Island (1784). Vermont had abolished slavery in 1777, while it was still independent, and when it joined the United States as the 14th state in 1791, it was the first state to join untainted by slavery. These state jurisdictions thus enacted the first abolition laws in the Americas.[3] By 1804 (including, New York (1799), New Jersey (1804)), all of the northern states had abolished slavery or set measures in place to gradually abolish it.[2][4]

In the south, Kentucky was created a slave state from Virginia (1792), and Tennessee was created a slave state from North Carolina (1796). By 1804, before the creation of new states from the federal western territories, the number of slave and free states was eight each. In popular usage, the geographic divide between the slave and free states was called the Mason-Dixon line (between Maryland and Pennsylvania or Delaware).

The 1787, United States Constitutional Convention debated slavery, and for a time slavery was a major impediment to passage of the new constitution. As a compromise, the institution was acknowledged though never mentioned directly in the constitution, as in the case of the Fugitive Slave Clause. In 1808, the United States outlawed the international slave import trade, but the domestic trade in half the states continued.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Time to end the racist Electoral College. It was created by racists for racist reasons.

It does not matter how many times you repeat your lie, it remains a lie.

Gainsaying doesn't change the fact that it was deliberately set up as a stacked deck in favor of the slaveholding states who got to apportion themselves counting three-fifths of their slaves while granting those slaves zero-fifths of a vote,.meaning they had disporportionate power compared to non-slaveholding states. That's just, again, historical fact.

Ever sit in school civics class and wonder why four of the first five POTUSes (and 8 of the first 9 terms) were guys from Virginia? Well, that's it. another mystery solved. And all four were slaveholders. African slavery could not exist without a pre-foundation of racism to justify it.

That's also why this hallucinatory post above:

The Electoral College has everything to do with EQUAL REPRESENTATION of everyone

--- is utter malarkey. It was anything BUT equal, not to mention the vote, where it existed at all, was limited to men, and limited to white men, and often limited to white men who owned property. There is no definition of "EVERYBODY" that can shoehorn in there.

Of course that's not the only reason the EC was contrived but it's one of the three that no longer apply.

Gainsaying doesn't change the fact that it was deliberately set up as a stacked deck in favor of the slaveholding states who got to apportion themselves counting three-fifths of their slaves while granting those slaves zero-fifths of a vote,.meaning they had disporportionate power compared to non-slaveholding states. That's just, again, historical fact.

Kind of like California getting extra votes and power because of all their illegal aliens, eh?

 

[Pogo]

If the Electoral College is abandoned there will be no need to visit, campaign in, listen to, pay any attention to those smaller states.

So much doublethink. Where does one even start.

Obviously nobody bothers NOW with those Wyomings and Vermonts and Rhode Islands and Utahs, specifically because of the WTA system. Both the red and blue candies know full well that those states are going red/blue/blue/red, therefore there's no reason for EITHER of them to bother, and they don't. One candy knows he'll never get that state and the other knows he has it in the bag.

As for your obsession with "Hillary" she made the fatal ass-umption that she had Wisconsin/Pennsylvania/whatever in the bag, again on that same WTA principle. You get 'em all, or you lose 'em all.

On the other hand if a vote counted proportionally as they in fact happened, would reflect how the state's voters actually voted. My state's 15 EVs for example might have been allocated 8 for Rump and 7 for Clinton (or 7/6/2). Nobody here got 50% of the PV, yet Rump got 100% of the EV. Again that's even more out of proportion than the three-fifths compromise of the slavery daze.

So don't be trawling around here trying to sell this snake oil of easily debunked Doublethinkian crapola. It's easily seen through as preposterous hallucination. The well-known fact that candies will focus their time on so-called "swing" states ---- yet another bullshit concept that would not (and should not) exist but for the WTA system (which completely does not exist in the Constitution) while utterly ignoring those Wyomings and Vermonts and Rhode Islands and Utahs, is one of the many arguments AGAINST the perverted system. So when those candies take up residence in the Ohios and North Cackalackees, they're not running for President of the US --- they're running for president of Ohio and president of North Cackalackee.

Of course, nothing in the Constitution says we have to have a vote at all. It just says the several states shall designate electors, however they choose to do so. But the reality is they all hold elections as if they're data inputs, and then they immediately turn and toss half (or more) of those votes directly into the crapper.

"EQUAL REPRESENTATION" my ASS.

 

[Cosmos]

Elizabeth Warren goes to Mississippi and campaigns against the Electoral College. Just let that sink in.

Never underestimate either the pure evil of Elizabeth Warren and the rest of the Democrat field pushing this.........or the stupidity of a Mississippi Democrat voter.

What's your point here?

Point being that if EW had her way there would be no need for any POTUS candidate to ever bother campaigning in MS because the socialist one-party status of California would prevail across the nation. Mississippians should be horrified by her.

 

[easyt65]

If the Electoral College is abandoned there will be no need to visit, campaign in, listen to, pay any attention to those smaller states.

So much doublethink. Where does one even start.

Obviously nobody bothers NOW with those Wyomings and Vermonts and Rhode Islands and Utahs, specifically because of the WTA system. Both the red and blue candies know full well that those states are going red/blue/blue/red, therefore there's no reason for EITHER of them to bother, and they don't. One candy knows he'll never get that state and the other knows he has it in the bag.

As for your obsession with "Hillary" she made the fatal ass-umption that she had Wisconsin/Pennsylvania/whatever in the bag, again on that same WTA principle. You get 'em all, or you lose 'em all.

On the other hand if a vote counted proportionally as they in fact happened, would reflect how the state's voters actually voted. My state's 15 EVs for example might have been allocated 8 for Rump and 7 for Clinton (or 7/6/2). Nobody here got 50% of the PV, yet Rump got 100% of the EV. Again that's even more out of proportion than the three-fifths compromise of the slavery daze.

So don't be trawling around here trying to sell this snake oil of easily debunked Doublethinkian crapola. It's easily seen through as preposterous hallucination.

Of course, nothing in the Constitution says we have to have a vote at all. It just says the several states shall designate electors, however they choose to do so. But the reality is they all hold elections as if they're data inputs, and then they immediately turn and toss half (or more) of those votes directly into the crapper.

"EQUAL REPRESENTATION" my ASS.

You're right, Hillary completely ignored several states who, through the Electoral College, were guaranteed equal representation / importance in a US Presidential Election. Hillary learned the hard way how important they turned out to be. Their voices / votes were not only heard and mattered, they chocked the world and changed the results of a predicted 'landslide' election. THAT is why it is important that EVERY state's, every region of the country's, voices / votes mattering be protected.

The only reason why Dems are calling for the Electoral College to be eliminated now is because Hillary lost.

IF HILLARY HAD WON WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION / WOULD NOT BE HEARING A DAMN WORD ABOUT HOW THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE NEEDED TO BE ABANDONED AT ALL RIGHT NOW!

 

[Pogo]

Time to end the racist Electoral College. It was created by racists for racist reasons.

No it wasn’t. That’s a myth drummed up by far left extremists like you in order to try and get people on board with a radical change in the way we do our presidential elections because every time the Democrats lose an election they think it’s because the rules need to change, not because their ideas were rejected

Actually that's historical fact (see "Three Fifths Compromise"), and you seem to be treading down the same path as easyt65 here obsessed with "Hillary" and "2016". The fact is the Electoral College system as practiced has been under fire for two hundred years going all the way back to its own architect James Madison who wanted to ban the WTA practice. Numerous serious attempts to address the issue have generated, most recently the Every Vote Counts Amendment (2005), the FairVote project (1992) and the Bayh-Celler Amendment (1969), *ALL* of which had and still have both support and opposition from both sides of the aisle, so this obsession with "Hillary" as if it's some kind of new thingie is just dishonest.

 

[Pogo]

If the Electoral College is abandoned there will be no need to visit, campaign in, listen to, pay any attention to those smaller states.

So much doublethink. Where does one even start.

Obviously nobody bothers NOW with those Wyomings and Vermonts and Rhode Islands and Utahs, specifically because of the WTA system. Both the red and blue candies know full well that those states are going red/blue/blue/red, therefore there's no reason for EITHER of them to bother, and they don't. One candy knows he'll never get that state and the other knows he has it in the bag.

As for your obsession with "Hillary" she made the fatal ass-umption that she had Wisconsin/Pennsylvania/whatever in the bag, again on that same WTA principle. You get 'em all, or you lose 'em all.

On the other hand if a vote counted proportionally as they in fact happened, would reflect how the state's voters actually voted. My state's 15 EVs for example might have been allocated 8 for Rump and 7 for Clinton (or 7/6/2). Nobody here got 50% of the PV, yet Rump got 100% of the EV. Again that's even more out of proportion than the three-fifths compromise of the slavery daze.

So don't be trawling around here trying to sell this snake oil of easily debunked Doublethinkian crapola. It's easily seen through as preposterous hallucination.

Of course, nothing in the Constitution says we have to have a vote at all. It just says the several states shall designate electors, however they choose to do so. But the reality is they all hold elections as if they're data inputs, and then they immediately turn and toss half (or more) of those votes directly into the crapper.

"EQUAL REPRESENTATION" my ASS.

You're right, Hillary completely ignored several states who, through the Electoral College, were guaranteed equal representation / importance in a US Presidential Election. Hillary learned the hard way how important they turned out to be. Their voices / votes were not only heard and mattered, they chocked the world and changed the results of a predicted 'landslide' election. THAT is why it is important that EVERY state's, every region of the country's, voices / votes mattering be protected.

The only reason why Dems are calling for the Electoral College to be eliminated now is because Hillary lost.

IF HILLARY HAD WON WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION / WOULD NOT BE HEARING A DAMN WORD ABOUT HOW THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE NEEDED TO BE ABANDONED AT ALL RIGHT NOW!

You can write Speculation Fallacies in GREAT BIG FONTS all you like but all that does is make them BIGGER FALLACIES. Your obsession is noted and dismissed. The history is there and there ain't nuttin' you can do about that. And the fact that you only choose to notice those movements that you think will score you points on a message board is nobody else's problem.

 

[Papageorgio]

So how would low populated rural areas become as densely populated as the blue states, for that to become equal?
The rural areas grow the crops and raise the live stock that feed those densely populated states.
Get rid of the EC and the rural area would have no say in our Presidential Elections.

You're concerned about "areas". I'm concerned about people and ensuring every person is counted and weighted the same.

Areas are represented by the house and Senate.

People do have a voice with a Republic, Democracy not as much. The Electoral College helps for all to have a voice, even minorities. All voices from all over the nation get a voice, it matters not the flavor of the day, it equalizes the might of the majority to protect the rights of the minority.

Not an equal voice. It's disproportionate.

Look you keep claiming every vote counts and should be weighed the same but then keep claiming the Senate is fine. The Founders made the Senate to equalize the State voices in the Senate. Either you want to get rid of the Senate too or you are blowing smoke about equal voice. By the way the Electoral college GIVES equal voice to the States.

I want equal voice for the people when it comes to picking the president. Equal voice for the states comes from the Senate.

I want to protect all in the vote, the rural voter and the suburban voter, both have different needs and all needs need to be accounted for. That is why we are a republic. If we started to eliminate the minority voice it would be regressing back to the 1800's. I'm for keeping the Republic and all voices heard and acknowledged. With a country as big as the United States is, different areas need different needs and the needs will contrast vastly. With both parties giving increasing power to the Executive Office, we need to make sure all are heard and all have a voice. A popular vote would not allow for the small voice to be acknowledged, let alone be heard.