Email shows effort to shield bin Laden photos

[Mr. H.]

I disagree with [MENTION=33456]Freewill[/MENTION] on pretty much everything... but not this!

Why won't they show the damn photos and lay the dead dog to rest?

At least give us a reason! Is it because his face is splattered all over the place? Because that's exactly what I'd want to see!

This has "conspiracy" written all over it

Think about what might happen in the middle east as a reaction to pictures of bin Laden's mangled corpse on the front page of every newspaper in the world.

The whole world has seen the towers and the pentagon a thousand times over. Let the terrorists see their hero butchered. We have Homeland Security, NSA spying, the Patriot Act... were those things for nothing? Despite that supposed "protection" that we sacrificed our freedom for we can't even see the fruit of a decade's labor? A photo of the vengeance the entire last 10 years of military effort were all about???

Yeah, I can dig that.

You see, freewilly, that's what I was looking for.

 

[Freewill]

If you have to ask that, you have no business starting such a thread.

What the hell is wrong with you? I am asking why you think it should not be released. I hardly think the reaction would be any worse then having Obama take repeated victory laps and movies and documentaries being made of the event. I don't think they cared in the ME because either he was already dead or not dead at all.

I watch and listen. You shoot your mouth off. Tell me of the benefit of releasing such photos And I mean the benefit, not the reason.

Maybe there is no benefit except it would prove that the administration is telling the truth. What in the hell did I shoot my mouth off about. I am not convinced OBL died that night so what is that to you? Why must I bow down to whatever the government feeds you? I don't believe in 9/11 conspiracy, I believe Oswald killed JFK all on his own and I don't believe Obama intentionally did anything wrong leading up to Benghazi. But something about this story just doesn't ring true. Maybe it is all true but we have been told many stories by the government many times. Now we have a general who should have been obliged to keep the materials requested directing the opposite and you think there isn't something fishy going on?

 

[Rocko]

At first I felt they should release the photos, but after some consideration, and in hearing the justification that showing them may put our troops in harms way, I'm ok with them not releasing the photos. I mean I don't always trust government, but I tend to believe them that Bin Laden was killed. I know there's an argument to be made for transparency but the lives of our troops are more important than some photos.

 

[Freewill]

Think about what might happen in the middle east as a reaction to pictures of bin Laden's mangled corpse on the front page of every newspaper in the world.

The whole world has seen the towers and the pentagon a thousand times over. Let the terrorists see their hero butchered. We have Homeland Security, NSA spying, the Patriot Act... were those things for nothing? Despite that supposed "protection" that we sacrificed our freedom for we can't even see the fruit of a decade's labor? A photo of the vengeance the entire last 10 years of military effort were all about???

Yeah, I can dig that.

You see, freewilly, that's what I was looking for.

So now you don't think it is a bad idea? What about the ME and riots?

I agree with theoldschool and what he said but vengeance isn't my motive.

 

[Freewill]

At first I felt they should release the photos, but after some consideration, and in hearing the justification that showing them may put our troops in harms way, I'm ok with them not releasing the photos. I mean I don't always trust government, but I tend to believe them that Bin Laden was killed. I know there's an argument to be made for transparency but the lives of our troops are more important than some photos.

We are blowing up civilian, innocent civilians, almost daily in the ME with drones. As I said there have been movies and documentaries about the killing of OBL. Obama took victory laps. I don't see where these pictures would incite people any more so then what we did do. Besides if they want to attack our troops that just saves us the time of sorting them out. As theoldschool said maybe if for no other reason it may add some meaning to the last 10 or so years of fighting. It would give those who didn't believe the administration closure.

 

[Mr. H.]

The whole world has seen the towers and the pentagon a thousand times over. Let the terrorists see their hero butchered. We have Homeland Security, NSA spying, the Patriot Act... were those things for nothing? Despite that supposed "protection" that we sacrificed our freedom for we can't even see the fruit of a decade's labor? A photo of the vengeance the entire last 10 years of military effort were all about???

Yeah, I can dig that.

You see, freewilly, that's what I was looking for.

So now you don't think it is a bad idea? What about the ME and riots?

I agree with theoldschool and what he said but vengeance isn't my motive.

Do the math.

Fuck + You = Fuck You.

 

[Freewill]

The article actually goes out of it's way not to claim it's a violation of the law. It just says that it's not "normally" done that way.

Maybe I am wrong but I read oblige as in accordance with the law: McRaven's order to purge the bin Laden material came 10 days after The Associated Press asked for the photos and other documents under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. Typically, when a freedom of information request is filed to a government agency under the Federal Records Act, the agency is obliged to preserve the material sought — even if the agency later denies the request.

I guess it is a matter of what "typically" means.

"Typically" means "this is what happens normally". If government agencies are "typically" obligated to hold the information, stating it that way implies that this situation is atypical - meaning that they are not in fact obligated to do so.

And who gets to decide? I think that was just the wording by the authors of the article. But I am not going to search the law. What this sounds like is someone asked Nixon for the tapes and he erased them. Which he could have very well done.

 

[Rocko]

At first I felt they should release the photos, but after some consideration, and in hearing the justification that showing them may put our troops in harms way, I'm ok with them not releasing the photos. I mean I don't always trust government, but I tend to believe them that Bin Laden was killed. I know there's an argument to be made for transparency but the lives of our troops are more important than some photos.

We are blowing up civilian, innocent civilians, almost daily in the ME with drones. As I said there have been movies and documentaries about the killing of OBL. Obama took victory laps. I don't see where these pictures would incite people any more so then what we did do. Besides if they want to attack our troops that just saves us the time of sorting them out. As theoldschool said maybe if for no other reason it may add some meaning to the last 10 or so years of fighting. It would give those who didn't believe the administration closure.

It might give some people closure. I don't know. For me, personally, I could live without seeing them. As far as risk exposer to our troops, I'm not well informed enough on that matter to make this kind of decision. What I can say is I would hope the government is not using the safety of our troops as an excuse to just do what they want.

 

[Freewill]

At first I felt they should release the photos, but after some consideration, and in hearing the justification that showing them may put our troops in harms way, I'm ok with them not releasing the photos. I mean I don't always trust government, but I tend to believe them that Bin Laden was killed. I know there's an argument to be made for transparency but the lives of our troops are more important than some photos.

We are blowing up civilian, innocent civilians, almost daily in the ME with drones. As I said there have been movies and documentaries about the killing of OBL. Obama took victory laps. I don't see where these pictures would incite people any more so then what we did do. Besides if they want to attack our troops that just saves us the time of sorting them out. As theoldschool said maybe if for no other reason it may add some meaning to the last 10 or so years of fighting. It would give those who didn't believe the administration closure.

It might give some people closure. I don't know. For me, personally, I could live without seeing them. As far as risk exposer to our troops, I'm not well informed enough on that matter to make this kind of decision. What I can say is I would hope the government is not using the safety of our troops as an excuse to just do what they want.

Have you actual read that the safety of the troops is their concern? Considering they let it out who did the mission I wonder if in fact they do worry about the troops.

 

[Rocko]

We are blowing up civilian, innocent civilians, almost daily in the ME with drones. As I said there have been movies and documentaries about the killing of OBL. Obama took victory laps. I don't see where these pictures would incite people any more so then what we did do. Besides if they want to attack our troops that just saves us the time of sorting them out. As theoldschool said maybe if for no other reason it may add some meaning to the last 10 or so years of fighting. It would give those who didn't believe the administration closure.

It might give some people closure. I don't know. For me, personally, I could live without seeing them. As far as risk exposer to our troops, I'm not well informed enough on that matter to make this kind of decision. What I can say is I would hope the government is not using the safety of our troops as an excuse to just do what they want.

Have you actual read that the safety of the troops is their concern? Considering they let it out who did the mission I wonder if in fact they do worry about the troops.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/05/04/6583783-key-

I read it and heard many people in government say it, not just Obama. I happen to give credence to what they are saying. I don't blame you though, for taking a more cynical approach.

republicans-say-dont-release-bin-laden-photo?lite

 

[theDoctorisIn]

We are blowing up civilian, innocent civilians, almost daily in the ME with drones. As I said there have been movies and documentaries about the killing of OBL. Obama took victory laps. I don't see where these pictures would incite people any more so then what we did do. Besides if they want to attack our troops that just saves us the time of sorting them out. As theoldschool said maybe if for no other reason it may add some meaning to the last 10 or so years of fighting. It would give those who didn't believe the administration closure.

It might give some people closure. I don't know. For me, personally, I could live without seeing them. As far as risk exposer to our troops, I'm not well informed enough on that matter to make this kind of decision. What I can say is I would hope the government is not using the safety of our troops as an excuse to just do what they want.

Have you actual read that the safety of the troops is their concern? Considering they let it out who did the mission I wonder if in fact they do worry about the troops.

It's common sense.

 

[SwimExpert]

I wonder also why OBL was double taped considering he was unarmed.

It's called training.

 

[hortysir]

I disagree with @Freewill on pretty much everything... but not this!

Why won't they show the damn photos and lay the dead dog to rest?

At least give us a reason! Is it because his face is splattered all over the place? Because that's exactly what I'd want to see!

This has "conspiracy" written all over it

Think about what might happen in the middle east as a reaction to pictures of bin Laden's mangled corpse on the front page of every newspaper in the world.

Oooooo......what might happen?
Islamic extremists might kill people over some warped sense of religious conviction?
Let's not have that because they never do anything like that over something as trivial as, IDK....say,,,something like a fucking cartoon.

These shit-stains will find a reason to kill whether we are granted any sort of government transparency or not

 

[Freewill]

I wonder also why OBL was double taped considering he was unarmed.

It's called training.

Was everyone else? His wife wasn't and certainly women can fire weapons. Maybe it was just the heat of the moment and having the bastard in his sights.

 

[Freewill]

It might give some people closure. I don't know. For me, personally, I could live without seeing them. As far as risk exposer to our troops, I'm not well informed enough on that matter to make this kind of decision. What I can say is I would hope the government is not using the safety of our troops as an excuse to just do what they want.

Have you actual read that the safety of the troops is their concern? Considering they let it out who did the mission I wonder if in fact they do worry about the troops.

It's common sense.

So we went into an ally country, apparently shot and kill everyone in the compound, brag about killing him and taking victory laps, bury him at sea, exposing the troops that did the actual raid and we are blowing up the guilty and the innocent with drones and they are only going to get pissed when they see a picture. Seriously? Common sense tells me that there were no real protest or riots thus they must not have really cared, I think they are getting used to the carnage.

 

[Freewill]

Obama: I won't release bin Laden death photos

"It is important to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool," said the president.

"We don't trot out this stuff as trophies," Mr. Obama added. "The fact of the matter is, this is somebody who was deserving of the justice that he received."

In explaining his choice not to release the photo, Mr. Obama said that "we don't need to spike the football." He said that "given the graphic nature of these photos it would create a national security risk."

"The fact of the matter is, as the president described, these are graphic photographs of someone who was shot in the face -- the head, rather," he said. "It is not in our national security interests to allow those images, as has been in the past been the case, to become icons to rally opinion against the United States. The president's number one priority is the safety and security of American citizens at home and Americans abroad. There is no need to release these photographs to establish Osama bin Laden's identity. And he saw no other compelling reason to release them, given the potential for national security risks. And further, because he believes, as he said so clearly, this is not who we are." (See video at left.)


"He wanted to hear the opinions of others, but he was very clear about his view on this," Carney added. "And, obviously, his decision is categorical." He said it applied to "all visual evidence" of bin Laden's death, including video of his burial at sea.


Those from the article are there reasoning. OK it is their decision I guess we will have to live by that decision. Until OBL shows up on facebook we can all assume he is dead.

But I will observe, Obama spiked the ball many times. Why is it HIS decision? They would not have to show or give the pictures to the world only show them to people we can trust. We are still spiking the ball. And there is no mention in the comments about protecting the troops. Not sure I see a national security risk in showing the pictures more so then just killing him. The excuse of it might cause riots is BS in my opinion.

I think the way they handled the body was right, it was quick and done. It showed to me that they at least had a game plan, I wonder if they had a game plan, or needed a game plan, if he were taken alive. I seriously doubt anyone wanted the liability of having a live OBL. Since we are all going to accept the word of the government on this I think that operation went well and was well planned and executed. Kudos to all involved.

 

[SwimExpert]

I wonder also why OBL was double taped considering he was unarmed.

It's called training.

Was everyone else? His wife wasn't and certainly women can fire weapons. Maybe it was just the heat of the moment and having the bastard in his sights.

Allow me to clarify. It's called combat training. Not massacre training.

 

[Freewill]

It's called training.

Was everyone else? His wife wasn't and certainly women can fire weapons. Maybe it was just the heat of the moment and having the bastard in his sights.

Allow me to clarify. It's called combat training. Not massacre training.

I am not sure what you think I am implying. There were two people in the room both unarmed, one was wounded and one shot in the head, I believe, twice. All I am doing is asking questions in no way am I trying to cast doubt on what happened that night or on the men who went in. I am just asking because don't believe it was a dead or alive situation. Which makes absolutely no difference to me I only ask for sake of discussion.

 

[SwimExpert]

Was everyone else? His wife wasn't and certainly women can fire weapons. Maybe it was just the heat of the moment and having the bastard in his sights.

Allow me to clarify. It's called combat training. Not massacre training.

I am not sure what you think I am implying. There were two people in the room both unarmed, one was wounded and one shot in the head, I believe, twice. All I am doing is asking questions in no way am I trying to cast doubt on what happened that night or on the men who went in. I am just asking because don't believe it was a dead or alive situation. Which makes absolutely no difference to me I only ask for sake of discussion.

The mission was to "kill or capture." You seem to think that "capture" was ever expected to be the likely outcome, or that it was the preferred outcome. The only reason the possibility of "capture" was part of the mission is because US policy is to not kill a person attempting to surrender.

Now let's be honest. There is no way that bin Laden was ever going to surrender. The potential for "capture" was part of the mission as a theoretical possibility. But I'm positive that every single person knew from the get-go that the "kill" was the preferable option. At the very least, I don't think there was a man on the team that intended to give bin Laden the opportunity to try to surrender.

 

[Freewill]

Allow me to clarify. It's called combat training. Not massacre training.

I am not sure what you think I am implying. There were two people in the room both unarmed, one was wounded and one shot in the head, I believe, twice. All I am doing is asking questions in no way am I trying to cast doubt on what happened that night or on the men who went in. I am just asking because don't believe it was a dead or alive situation. Which makes absolutely no difference to me I only ask for sake of discussion.

The mission was to "kill or capture." You seem to think that "capture" was ever expected to be the likely outcome, or that it was the preferred outcome. The only reason the possibility of "capture" was part of the mission is because US policy is to not kill a person attempting to surrender.

Now let's be honest. There is no way that bin Laden was ever going to surrender. The potential for "capture" was part of the mission as a theoretical possibility. But I'm positive that every single person knew from the get-go that the "kill" was the preferable option. At the very least, I don't think there was a man on the team that intended to give bin Laden the opportunity to try to surrender.

My opinion, if the SEALS were told to bring him back alive that is what they would have done. We, the US, kill people all the time by drone without even knowing we have the right person. So maybe they were told an option was capture but I will bet it was done with a wink and a nod.