Employer healthcare plans should be abolished. Privatize it all the way.

[g5000]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

 

[bendog]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

 

[g5000]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

 

[g5000]

If your employer is sponsoring your health insurance, then you are getting a subsidy of $8,000 to $12,000 from your employer in the form of your employer's share of your health insurance costs.

That is a form of income, except it is totally tax exempt.

Employer-sponsored health insurance (ESHI) is one of the chief drivers which bends the cost of health care in America upward. Because ESHI is making health care more expensive, it needs to go away. And the way to do that is to take away the tax exemption.

At the same time, Congress needs to repeal the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945.

When a Republican tells you they have a plan to "sell health insurance across state lines", they are fucking you in the ass. "Sell insurance across state lines" is not the same thing as "selling insurance throughout the country".

Neither Republicans nor Democrats want you to be able to pick up the telephone and buy health insurance from any company in America the same way you do with auto, home, and life insurance, and you need to start asking yourselves why that is.

 

[bendog]

I'm not accusing you of any hypocrisy or inconsistency. I'm just saying a law giving some employees 8-12k more money from his employer would probably be unconstitutional and it sure would be unpopular. And giving employers more profit and workers to fend for themselves would also be unpopular. And I wouldn't see it as an improvement.

So, I don't agree with criticizing congress so much. The best "policy" solution seemed to me to simply collect all the revenues with the tax expenditure, and Obama taxes on HC providers who get new patients and more money into one giant pool, and allocate tax credits for every citizen and legal resident to buy HC directly .. through insurance or fee for service

But it would be politically impossible to do that because people don't want their insurance messed with ... unless it's telling insurors they can't so something most of us see as unethical

 

[dblack]

If your employer is sponsoring your health insurance, then you are getting a subsidy of $8,000 to $12,000 from your employer in the form of your employer's share of your health insurance costs.

That is a form of income, except it is totally tax exempt.

Employer-sponsored health insurance (ESHI) is one of the chief drivers which bends the cost of health care in America upward. Because ESHI is making health care more expensive, it needs to go away. And the way to do that is to take away the tax exemption.

At the same time, Congress needs to repeal the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945.

When a Republican tells you they have a plan to "sell health insurance across state lines", they are fucking you in the ass. "Sell insurance across state lines" is not the same thing as "selling insurance throughout the country".

Neither Republicans nor Democrats want you to be able to pick up the telephone and buy health insurance from any company in America the same way you do with auto, home, and life insurance, and you need to start asking yourselves why that is.

This is the very first thing I'd do re: health care reform. It's the simplest change that would have the biggest impact.

 

[g5000]

I'm not accusing you of any hypocrisy or inconsistency. I'm just saying a law giving some employees 8-12k more money from his employer would probably be unconstitutional and it sure would be unpopular. And giving employers more profit and workers to fend for themselves would also be unpopular. And I wouldn't see it as an improvement.

So, I don't agree with criticizing congress so much. The best "policy" solution seemed to me to simply collect all the revenues with the tax expenditure, and Obama taxes on HC providers who get new patients and more money into one giant pool, and allocate tax credits for every citizen and legal resident to buy HC directly .. through insurance or fee for service

That is going around your ass to get to your elbow. Tax credits and tax exemptions and tax deductions are a way to fuck you in the ass without you noticing. And you never get to your elbow.

Eliminate the tax exemption. It would cause chaos in the beginning, as would unwinding any government boondoggle. But that is just an indication of how fucked up the government has made things, with the end result of health care costs rising faster than inflation and GDP.

But there simply is no reason why getting health insurance has to be harder than getting auto, home, and life insurance. And yet it is.

You should be asking yourself why that is.

 

[bendog]

I'm not accusing you of any hypocrisy or inconsistency. I'm just saying a law giving some employees 8-12k more money from his employer would probably be unconstitutional and it sure would be unpopular. And giving employers more profit and workers to fend for themselves would also be unpopular. And I wouldn't see it as an improvement.

So, I don't agree with criticizing congress so much. The best "policy" solution seemed to me to simply collect all the revenues with the tax expenditure, and Obama taxes on HC providers who get new patients and more money into one giant pool, and allocate tax credits for every citizen and legal resident to buy HC directly .. through insurance or fee for service

That is going around your ass to get to your elbow. Tax credits and tax exemptions and tax deductions are a way to fuck you in the ass without you noticing. And you never get to your elbow.

Eliminate the tax exemption. It would cause chaos in the beginning, as would unwinding any government boondoggle. But that is just an indication of how fucked up the government has made things, with the end result of health care costs rising faster than inflation and GDP.

But there simply is no reason why getting health insurance has to be harder than getting auto, home, and life insurance. And yet it is.

You should be asking yourself why that is.

Don't run for any office with suggesting the more well compensated employees voluntarily agree to a 8-12 K pay cut, esp if indigents are still cared for. And forget about medicare

Reagan warned of this in the 60s and I'm sure Goldwater did too. it's a done deal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

 

[bendog]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

I think G5000 and the OP are right ... conceptually. Generally if providers had to advertise costs and avg outcomes for stuff like knee replacements and colonoscopies and wellness checkups, costs would be lower. Of course there are exceptions like when you are having a heart attack or you find out you have lung cancer. Consumers probably don't make rational decisions in those situations. And it's been proven repeatedly that the notion that individuals in a free market can be relied upon to make rational decisions is Patently false. A guy even won a noble for that.

Reagan and I assume Goldwater were fine with helping older people who didn't have the retirement income for healthcare, but creating a new entitlement for every American would be just an excuse to gouge the tax payer, and by and large medicare is that. And treating indigents as if they could pay as non-indigents .... that is socialism. But here in the South, as I understand it in 1965 black people simply did not have healthcare ... not by doctors.

So, imo, the best we can do is something like Germany where every worker and legal resident gets access to a heavily subsidized base package of care. Then you, your employer and HMO can fight out if you get vision, more than one "free" wellness visit, didyouknowvigraisabannedword, podiatrist, etc.

If you are under 65 you probably have no way of knowing any system where the govt didn't set prices.

But people won't give up employer HC plans until they are too expensive for most of us. And if the govt raises taxes on employers so they don't provide plans someone like Trump or E.Warren will run on the issue and probably not improve it.

 

[g5000]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

Health care costs have been rising faster than inflation and GDP for over 60 years. Blaming Obamacare, which temporarily SLOWED that rise, is just what your propagandists want you to do.

Employer sponsored health insurance needs to go. It is one of the reasons health care costs keep rising. Any plan which preserves ESHI is a plan which will not solve the problem, and will actually perpetuate the problem.

 

[bendog]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

Health care costs have been rising faster than inflation and GDP for over 60 years. Blaming Obamacare, which temporarily SLOWED that rise, is just what your propagandists want you to do.

Employer sponsored health insurance needs to go. It is one of the reasons health care costs keep rising. Any plan which preserves ESHI is a plan which will not solve the problem, and will actually perpetuate the problem.

Politically the dems need to say "everyone will get decent healthcare but we haven't quite killed cost containment yet so medicare all has to just remain our goal."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

Health care costs have been rising faster than inflation and GDP for over 60 years. Blaming Obamacare, which temporarily SLOWED that rise, is just what your propagandists want you to do.

Employer sponsored health insurance needs to go. It is one of the reasons health care costs keep rising. Any plan which preserves ESHI is a plan which will not solve the problem, and will actually perpetuate the problem.

It has nothing to do with the costs rising. Healthcare costs are rising because of government--not the private industry. Medicare and Medicaid typically pay only 2/3 of the bill for their patients. That means providers increase their prices on everybody to recoup those huge losses. This is why when clinics and hospitals close down, it's usually in lower income areas where most of the patients are government clients. There are few private and insurance pay patients to offset government losses.

The problem is we are worried about how to pay for healthcare instead of concentrating on lowering the costs first, and there are nearly a dozen ways to do that, some of them not costing the government anything. But off the top, Medicare contributions should at least double. After all, when was the last time anybody increased Medicare contributions? And during those years, healthcare costs kept increasing and increasing; people are living longer and longer. It simply doesn't add up.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes health care is a right provided you pay for it, as is the right to have homeowners and auto insurance. Because someone chooses not to work or pay for their health insurance why is it the responsibility for everyone else that works to take care of you? What right is that?

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

No. It's part of your conpensation from your employer, dope.

 

[Dragonlady]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

Health care costs have been rising faster than inflation and GDP for over 60 years. Blaming Obamacare, which temporarily SLOWED that rise, is just what your propagandists want you to do.

Employer sponsored health insurance needs to go. It is one of the reasons health care costs keep rising. Any plan which preserves ESHI is a plan which will not solve the problem, and will actually perpetuate the problem.

ESHI is the reason why your 33 cents out of every health care dollar in the USA goes to administration. It's why there is an uneven level of insurance coverage available to all citizens, and why the USA government has tried to have universal single payer health care declared an "unfair trade advantage" in NAFTA negotiations. It's, in economic downturns, so many people lost health insurance the universal health care is the only way of ensuring adequate coverage for ALL your citizens as your life expectancy declines.

 

[RandomPoster]

Yes health care is a right provided you pay for it, as is the right to have homeowners and auto insurance. Because someone chooses not to work or pay for their health insurance why is it the responsibility for everyone else that works to take care of you? What right is that?

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

No. It's part of your conpensation from your employer, dope.

No dope. It's insurance. Buying health insurance should be like buying car insurance or any kind of insurance.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes health care is a right provided you pay for it, as is the right to have homeowners and auto insurance. Because someone chooses not to work or pay for their health insurance why is it the responsibility for everyone else that works to take care of you? What right is that?

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

No. It is insurance. It is a marketable commodity best controlled by the free market.

No. It's part of your conpensation from your employer, dope.

No dope. It's insurance. Buying health insurance should be like buying car insurance or any kind of insurance.

LOL.......
Sure, kid. It's not a "benefit" at all.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As I've said a zillion times, you should be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurer in America and choose the insurance and the options you want.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are the slightest bit interested in making that happen. And that is because they are all owned by special interests at your expense.

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

Health care costs have been rising faster than inflation and GDP for over 60 years. Blaming Obamacare, which temporarily SLOWED that rise, is just what your propagandists want you to do.

Employer sponsored health insurance needs to go. It is one of the reasons health care costs keep rising. Any plan which preserves ESHI is a plan which will not solve the problem, and will actually perpetuate the problem.

Politically the dems need to say "everyone will get decent healthcare but we haven't quite killed cost containment yet so medicare all has to just remain our goal."

If the majority want government healthcare, I'm okay with that provided it's funded fairly.

When Democrats come up with some hair brain idea, it's usually at a disadvantage of their political foes. Everybody pays if that's the way we're going to have healthcare in this country, and nothing is more fair than a consumption tax.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Partially yes. But we have literally billions going in tax breaks to fund insurance every year. How is that money transferred to workers .... employers will want to keep the tax breaks? And some workers have better insurance than others. The better off workers won't give that up willingly. That's what the idiot liberal elite dems got wrong with obamacare ... well one of the things.

As I mentioned earlier, the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance should be abolished.


I am saying YOU should be able to buy YOUR OWN health insurance the same way you buy YOUR OWN auto, home, and life insurance.

Your employer does not sponsor your auto, home, or life insurance.

Perhaps to a very small degree, your employer offers a small life insurance policy, but you get my meaning now?

Your employer should not even be in the loop when it comes to buying health insurance. That came about because of labor unions, and it is a total boondoggle. And Obama made it worse.

Your auto, home or life insurance is affordable. Healthcare insurance is not. What I spend for a year of auto coverage is what Commie Care wanted for a little over a month of healthcare coverage.

What Trump should have done is reverse the damage Hussein did. He should have only given tax breaks to companies that do provide coverage for their employees.

Health care costs have been rising faster than inflation and GDP for over 60 years. Blaming Obamacare, which temporarily SLOWED that rise, is just what your propagandists want you to do.

Employer sponsored health insurance needs to go. It is one of the reasons health care costs keep rising. Any plan which preserves ESHI is a plan which will not solve the problem, and will actually perpetuate the problem.

Politically the dems need to say "everyone will get decent healthcare but we haven't quite killed cost containment yet so medicare all has to just remain our goal."

If the majority want government healthcare, I'm okay with that provided it's funded fairly.

When Democrats come up with some hair brain idea, it's usually at a disadvantage of their political foes. Everybody pays if that's the way we're going to have healthcare in this country, and nothing is more fair than a consumption tax.

I don't think most people have any clue how complicated government intervention has made the healthcare industry, or how much that has affected the prices. They still think it's a simple transaction of "This service costs this much, you pay that amount or your insurance pays it, and that's it." That is so very much not how it works. There's a reason why every practice and facility has highly-trained and highly-paid people who handle billing, and it's not because they're just generating invoices and receipts like an auto parts store.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Let's say one person is 40 years old and has a perfect driving record and pays 100 a month in car insurance. Another person is 23 years old, has been convicted of 6 DWIs and had 12 accidents in the last 5 years. He might pay 1200 a month even if he is the same age and drives the same model of car. I believe this is fair.

Let's say one person is 20 years old, single and in perfect health. He might pay 500 dollars a month with a non-regulated private insurer. Another person is 55 years old, morbidly obese, is married with 15 kids, and has a very expensive pre-existing condition. He goes to a non-regulated private insurer and they say they want 6,000 a month to insure him. How is this unfair?

Let's put them on the same plan and charge them both 3,250 a month. Heck, even 3,150 a month. How is this fair?

Um...those plans are already privatized. And you will get lower rates in a plan with more people,in general.