Employer healthcare plans should be abolished. Privatize it all the way.

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If you're an unhealthy person and you want to pay more for an individual plan than your employer
will charge you, you should definitely do that.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people. If you are unhealthy, that is not my fault. I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance and you should have to do the same or not get health insurance. If your premiums are 6,000 a month in a beautiful, free, unregulated market, why is that my problem? It's as bad as Obamacare.

But if you are so darn sure you are HEALTHY, then why would you buy any health insurance? You are healthy, you don't need it.... right?

Anyone can get in a car accident or whatnot. It's a risk based assessment and I am low risk, so I should pay less.

If you are a good driver, then you do pay less.

I was responding to someone asking why I should choose to get health insurance. I said anyone can get hurt in an accident.

Anyone can develop cancer too! Why are you defeating your own argument?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

But if you are so darn sure you are HEALTHY, then why would you buy any health insurance? You are healthy, you don't need it.... right?

Anyone can get in a car accident or whatnot. It's a risk based assessment and I am low risk, so I should pay less.

If you are a good driver, then you do pay less.

I was responding to someone asking why I should choose to get health insurance. I said anyone can get hurt in an accident.

Correct. And anybody can develop an illness or disability. I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

You buy health insurance in case you get sick. If you are high risk, it will cost thousands a month. Too bad. Not my problem. It is the same principle with health insurance, except health insurance is typically more expensive. Most Americans are currently paying far more for health insurance than they necessarily realize because the employer pitches in a huge amount to everyone's. It should be totally individualized and free market and I should pay a couple hundred a month and others should pay thousands a month because they are higher risk.

How do you determine risk?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you are a good driver, then you do pay less.

I was responding to someone asking why I should choose to get health insurance. I said anyone can get hurt in an accident.

Correct. And anybody can develop an illness or disability. I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

You buy health insurance in case you get sick. If you are high risk, it will cost thousands a month. Too bad. Not my problem. It is the same principle with health insurance, except health insurance is typically more expensive. Most Americans are currently paying far more for health insurance than they necessarily realize because the employer pitches in a huge amount to everyone's. It should be totally individualized and free market and I should pay a couple hundred a month and others should pay thousands a month because they are higher risk.

And if you get sick.....then what? Are you willing to pay 3K a month to take care of your illness?

You get the insurance before you get sick or you are screwed.

Well you can't get auto insurance after an accident. You can't get house insurance after a fire. You can't buy life insurance when you're on your death bed and the doctor gave you less than a month to live.

 

[MAGAman]

Markets don’t work with healthcare.

Socialism doesn't work with anything.

Nothing is perfect.

Freedom is best.

 

[Care4all]

You do know that the law says that you can only charge 3 times the amount you charge the youngster right?

Pretty sure what he's complaining about is that as things stand now, if they work for the same employer, they probably have the same health plan and the same premium because the kid doesn't have a choice. It's the employer who decides what the plan will be, not the person being insured.

I can think of a few things I would like about a system where we purchase our healthcare and our health insurance the way we shop for and purchase other things. I would like insurance companies and health providers to have to compete for the business of the actual patients. I think we would be seeing an explosion of innovative new options, pricing, payment plans, etc. in no time.

People do not and have never haggled over medical expenses. The medical industrial complex just charges whatever the traffic will bear.

Of course, because no one is paying for their own health care. We've created a system where the whole game is getting someone else to pay the bills. What could go wrong?

Actually, everyone is paying for their own healthcare, even if it seems like their employer is paying for the most of it, right?

Nope. They're paying into a pool which pays for everyone's health care. The problem with this is that inverts their incentives. There's simply no reason why anyone would haggle over prices, as it will have no direct impact on the consumer.

[/QUOTE]
it is coming out of your total compensation, what the employer pays for your work.

And employers do have some incentive to keep prices down on health insurance costs....

As example, for the corporation that my husband works for, if you are a smoker, you have to be part of a 'quit smoking' program, if you have diabetes you have to participate in a wellness for diabetics program etc.... if you do not participate, then his company makes you pay a penalty and more a month for your share of the health insurance cost.

I do understand where you are going with this all, but the only way the free market can possibly work to bring costs down for health and medical services, is if there were no healthcare insurance at all and we each individually paid for seeing a doctor, operations, hospital stays, with no reimbursement from the govt in any manner.... not even a tax write off.... and that is simply unrealistic today. Pandora's box was opened a long time ago, imo.

 

[Dragonlady]

Markets don’t work with healthcare.

Socialism doesn't work with anything.

Nothing is perfect.

Freedom is best.

Bumper sticker responses at their best.

Explain why countries with universal health care, public education for all - no charter schools, no religious schools, and a mix of well regulated capitalism and private ownership, combined with policies and programs that benefit their citizens, not their corporations are doing SOOOO much better than the USA?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Markets don’t work with healthcare.

Socialism doesn't work with anything.

Nothing is perfect.

Freedom is best.

Bumper sticker responses at their best.

Explain why countries with universal health care, public education for all - no charter schools, no religious schools, and a mix of well regulated capitalism and private ownership, combined with policies and programs that benefit their citizens, not their corporations are doing SOOOO much better than the USA?

Explain why countries with universal health care, public education for all - no charter schools, no religious schools, and a mix of well regulated capitalism and private ownership, combined with policies and programs that benefit their citizens, not their corporations are doing SOOOO much better than the USA?

Because you're confused.

 

[debbiedowner]

The first sentence is the problem:

"Every state has requirements that must be met to operate in that state."

If you are against each state regulating their insurance markets then you must be for government regulating it? Does this sound familiar?

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

Your understanding of insurance is purely ignorant. Ask any employer. Go to Commie Care. The older you are, the more any insurance company charges. You ARE NOT paying the same as somebody 30 years older than you.

Well that's not completely true on employer group insurance and it will depend on the state and size of the group. In some states under 10 employer group is age banded over 10 they take an average age so all males regardless of age if under 65 would pay the same rate.

 

[debbiedowner]

Every state has requirements that must be met to operate in that state.

Also, a few states did this already, they opened up to any and all insurance companies and nothing changed. There is still the small issue of getting doctors and providers and hospitals into their "network"

The first sentence is the problem:

"Every state has requirements that must be met to operate in that state."

If you are against each state regulating their insurance markets then you must be for government regulating it? Does this sound familiar?

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

So you wanted to unplug your parents? For what money? Tells me everything right there.

 

[debbiedowner]

Let's say one person is 40 years old and has a perfect driving record and pays 100 a month in car insurance. Another person is 23 years old, has been convicted of 6 DWIs and had 12 accidents in the last 5 years. He might pay 1200 a month even if he is the same age and drives the same model of car. I believe this is fair.

Let's say one person is 20 years old, single and in perfect health. He might pay 500 dollars a month with a non-regulated private insurer. Another person is 55 years old, morbidly obese, is married with 15 kids, and has a very expensive pre-existing condition. He goes to a non-regulated private insurer and they say they want 6,000 a month to insure him. How is this unfair?

Let's put them on the same plan and charge them both 3,250 a month. Heck, even 3,150 a month. How is this fair?

You are against big government. Yet you are for a law that is trying to abolish freedom of choice.

How un-democratic of you.


I don't like company medical plans. But I feel it should be up to the individual companies to determine if they want to offer them or not. Not have the government 'abolish' them.

What a ridiculous idea from someone who claims to hate big government.

He must be methed up.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The first sentence is the problem:

"Every state has requirements that must be met to operate in that state."

If you are against each state regulating their insurance markets then you must be for government regulating it? Does this sound familiar?

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

So you wanted to unplug your parents? For what money? Tells me everything right there.

Not sure that was his point, but end of life care in the US is crazy expensive and takes up about 30% of what is spent on medical care in the US.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Anyone can get in a car accident or whatnot. It's a risk based assessment and I am low risk, so I should pay less.

If you are a good driver, then you do pay less.

I was responding to someone asking why I should choose to get health insurance. I said anyone can get hurt in an accident.

Correct. And anybody can develop an illness or disability. I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

You buy health insurance in case you get sick. If you are high risk, it will cost thousands a month. Too bad. Not my problem. It is the same principle with health insurance, except health insurance is typically more expensive. Most Americans are currently paying far more for health insurance than they necessarily realize because the employer pitches in a huge amount to everyone's. It should be totally individualized and free market and I should pay a couple hundred a month and others should pay thousands a month because they are higher risk.

How do you determine risk?

Straight from the insurance exam.

"A probability or threat of damage, injury, liability, loss, or any other negative occurrence that is caused by external or internal vulnerabilities, and that may be avoided through preemptive action."

 

[debbiedowner]

If you're an unhealthy person and you want to pay more for an individual plan than your employer
will charge you, you should definitely do that.

Healthy people should not have to pool their healthcare premiums with unhealthy people. If you are unhealthy, that is not my fault. I should be able to go out and buy cheap, unregulated health insurance and you should have to do the same or not get health insurance. If your premiums are 6,000 a month in a beautiful, free, unregulated market, why is that my problem? It's as bad as Obamacare.

But if you are so darn sure you are HEALTHY, then why would you buy any health insurance? You are healthy, you don't need it.... right?

Anyone can get in a car accident or whatnot. It's a risk based assessment and I am low risk, so I should pay less.

If you are a good driver, then you do pay less.

I was responding to someone asking why I should choose to get health insurance. I said anyone can get hurt in an accident.

Get an indemnity accident plan, plenty of companies sell them. Hey you can buy one of those and then buy an indemnity hospital plan, yea that's it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Markets don’t work with healthcare.

Socialism doesn't work with anything.

Nothing is perfect.

Freedom is best.

Bumper sticker responses at their best.

Explain why countries with universal health care, public education for all - no charter schools, no religious schools, and a mix of well regulated capitalism and private ownership, combined with policies and programs that benefit their citizens, not their corporations are doing SOOOO much better than the USA?

How about the simple fact is they don't have a bunch of intellectually bankrupt minorities or those incapable of communicating in the native language flooding their school systems?

Inconvenient truths, huh?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you are against each state regulating their insurance markets then you must be for government regulating it? Does this sound familiar?

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

Your understanding of insurance is purely ignorant. Ask any employer. Go to Commie Care. The older you are, the more any insurance company charges. You ARE NOT paying the same as somebody 30 years older than you.

Well that's not completely true on employer group insurance and it will depend on the state and size of the group. In some states under 10 employer group is age banded over 10 they take an average age so all males regardless of age if under 65 would pay the same rate.

Not here. I work for a small business of under 12 employees. We have a lot of long timers there. However my employer would tell me when my insurance went up so I understood why he didn't provide raises. Insurance companies raise insurance when each employee hits certain ages. It's pretty standard for each employee.

 

[debbiedowner]

If you are against each state regulating their insurance markets then you must be for government regulating it? Does this sound familiar?

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

So you wanted to unplug your parents? For what money? Tells me everything right there.

Not sure that was his point, but end of life care in the US is crazy expensive and takes up about 30% of what is spent on medical care in the US.

The insurance company was billed 91,000 for my two weeks in hospital last summer. My bil insurance company was billed close to a million for 3 weeks 7 years ago and died.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If you are a good driver, then you do pay less.

I was responding to someone asking why I should choose to get health insurance. I said anyone can get hurt in an accident.

Correct. And anybody can develop an illness or disability. I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

You buy health insurance in case you get sick. If you are high risk, it will cost thousands a month. Too bad. Not my problem. It is the same principle with health insurance, except health insurance is typically more expensive. Most Americans are currently paying far more for health insurance than they necessarily realize because the employer pitches in a huge amount to everyone's. It should be totally individualized and free market and I should pay a couple hundred a month and others should pay thousands a month because they are higher risk.

How do you determine risk?

Straight from the insurance exam.

"A probability or threat of damage, injury, liability, loss, or any other negative occurrence that is caused by external or internal vulnerabilities, and that may be avoided through preemptive action."

I know. I was once an insurance agent and handled corporate insurance programs too. You apparently do not know how that works or you wouldn't be using an insurance exam for a reference.

That "risk" is determined by extremely arbitrary means. Now, you have another word to go look up! Educate yourself.

 

[debbiedowner]

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

Your understanding of insurance is purely ignorant. Ask any employer. Go to Commie Care. The older you are, the more any insurance company charges. You ARE NOT paying the same as somebody 30 years older than you.

Well that's not completely true on employer group insurance and it will depend on the state and size of the group. In some states under 10 employer group is age banded over 10 they take an average age so all males regardless of age if under 65 would pay the same rate.

Not here. I work for a small business of under 12 employees. We have a lot of long timers there. However my employer would tell me when my insurance went up so I understood why he didn't provide raises. Insurance companies raise insurance when each employee hits certain ages. It's pretty standard for each employee.

Well I did say depending on the state. I don't know Ohio laws.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No. I am in favor of the government stopping employers from enforcing brutal socialism on the healthy and productive. Free market 100%.

Unless your employer is, in fact, a government entity, it is not socialism. Wasn't before, isn't now, won't be in the future. Socialism does NOT mean "doing something I don't like". So every time you try to call it "socialism" when your non-government employer gives you a benefit package that isn't what you want, you might as well just label your post "I'm a reactionary moron with a crappy vocabulary! Don't listen to me!"

Bullshit, they are socializing the cost of health care and evening it out to an extent. Tell me why I pay the same as some guy who is 30 years older than me. He should be paying 20 times what I pay. You are a bleeding heart liberal snowflake that doesn't want to see people being charged 10,000 a month for health insurance or being allowed to die.

When my parents were in the late stages of their life, I took a consistent stance. I was opposed to using taxpayer money to keep them alive. I fought with my family, who kept them alive so long that all of their life savings was wiped out and we inherited nothing. Not only that, taxpayer money was used to keep them alive at the end for a couple years.

So you wanted to unplug your parents? For what money? Tells me everything right there.

Not sure that was his point, but end of life care in the US is crazy expensive and takes up about 30% of what is spent on medical care in the US.

The insurance company was billed 91,000 for my two weeks in hospital last summer. My bil insurance company was billed close to a million for 3 weeks 7 years ago and died.

Is there a point to that?

 

[debbiedowner]

Here you go OP.


Risk Pooling: How Health Insurance in the Individual Market Works

How Group Health Insurance Premiums Are Calculated and How You Can Manage Them