EMT refuses to help dying woman because she is on coffee break gets off scott free

[Indofred]

Indo, when you find yourself in a hole, you should stop digging.


- Jeri

In other words; you can't offer a reasonable argument.
Come on - You told me I was wrong to suggest she was less than responsible - tell us why.

 

[9thIDdoc]

The fact remains that there are times when "nothing" is exactly what should be done. There is nothing at all moral about the "do anything" argument. It should be obvious but if you don't know what you're doing you damn well shouldn't do it. You are many times more likely to cause harm than help and there is simply no excuse for that. Some of you guys would have cut the woman's throat to no purpose other than wanting to act like a TV hero.

As stated before, you are completely incorrect. The fact is, there is ONE thing that she should have done weather or not it actually changed anything – WALKED BACK THERE AND EVALUATED THE SITUATION. You keep harping on the fact that she could do nothing BUT the reality here is that she had no fucking clue that there was nothing that she could have done. In order for her to know that there was nothing to do, she would have had to take the time and bother to even LOOK at the woman, something that she refused to do. That is wrong and unlike syrenn, I actually believe it should be actionable as she was in uniform.

If she does not want the responsibility to bother and address the need of others then she should have never placed that uniform on her body. She is unfit for it.

And as I stated before you are wrong.
You really ought to make an effort to think about what others say (write) before babbling.
I have NOT made the claim that this EMT's actions were correct. I don't claim that she was right. I believe that you are wrong to judge without having the facts needed to make an informed judgment. And that is especially true when the authorities with that knowledge available and charged with oversight of the EMS have investigated and found no wrongdoing. Even a nasty criminal deserves a fair trial before being condemned.
I also agree that evaluation of the patient is the next logical step. But I am also very aware that government systems are not always logical.

Do you know all the rules and regs. that EMT's and/or radio dispatchers in NYC are required to operate under? It is altogether possible she was forbidden from treating this patient. It is also possible that she was aware that she was not competent to treat patients and that was why she had the job of dispatcher instead of being assigned to work with patients in the field. Should she have killed this woman trying to preform a trach. that wouldn't helped when an ambulance and ER with equipment, meds., and much more highly trained staff were only minutes away? I don't think so.

 

[FA_Q2]

Well, we now have good examples of why so few are willing to become EMT's. When it comes to "Monday morning quarterbacking" suddenly everybody's a friggin expert. Whine all you like, I can find nothing that we actually know about that she should have done differently.

"...basic CPR training..... open the air way".

We aren't given any information to indicate this might have helped and unnecessary CPR can be dangerous, even deadly-especially on a pregnant woman? First rule: "Do no harm".

So....not even showing compassion is needed, eh? Kinda like that woman in NYC oodles of years ago that was murdered and not one person who heard and saw it, did a damn thing. I thought a new law was passed that if you are in a position to help someone, you are supposed to? Or was that dumped because humans know longer understand humanity?

In the real world attempting to "show compassion" has killed far more people than it's ever saved. Besides, what makes you think there weren't 47 people already crowded around "showing compassion" as is usually the case?

"I thought a new law was passed that if you are in a position to help someone, you are supposed to"?

The point is that we are given no reason to believe there was anything she should or could have done that would have helped other than call an ambulance-which she did. EMT's are not doctors and even doctors cannot know for sure what is wrong with someone just by looking at them. Even if EMT's could there is not much they can do without medications or instruments which-most often-they are forbidden to use without specific authorization. If an ambulance that has those things and radio contact to a doctor is just minutes away it would be stupid-and legally liable- to act on a wild guess.

I do have enough facts – the reason that they dropped the case is because there is a loophole in the law:

Jackson was arrested and charged with the “Flag Down Rule” which requires EMTs to treat someone if they are in uniform and called upon to do so. The chief of New York’s Emergency Medical Services supported her being prosecuted, but then suddenly flip-flopped, telling prosecutors that the “Flag Down Rule” does not apply to dispatchers because even though they are fully trained EMTs, they aren’t assigned to an ambulance, and therefore are not required to help someone when they are flagged down.

Why would she have done a trach? That is not helpful for an asthmatic. I stated what she should have done, walked to the back and looked at the situation. You can’t get passed that, can you. The simple reality is that she had no clue what was going on because she could not be bothered to EVEN ASSESS THE SITUATION. That is the end of that. If she had gone back there, looked and said nothing I can do everything would be fine – there was nothing she could have done. She did not even bother.

As far as saying what she did was right, you have spent most of this thread claiming that. Do not move the goalposts now.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They should be charged with murder.

It would fall under negligent manslaughter, not murder. Fits the definition to a tee.
Negligent manslaughter legal definition of Negligent manslaughter. Negligent manslaughter synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

2nd degree murder, depraved indifference to human life.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I do have enough facts – the reason that they dropped the case is because there is a loophole in the law:

Loophole? Maybe there is good reason for the laws that apply. All you have is uninformed opinion that is contrary to that of the experts. Your unreasoned lack of support could well be a reason that more high caliber people are not attracted to a largely thankless job.

As far as saying what she did was right, you have spent most of this thread claiming that. Do not move the goalposts now.

Wrong again. My claim has been that there is not good reason to assume that she did anything wrong.

 

[9thIDdoc]

They should be charged with murder.

It would fall under negligent manslaughter, not murder. Fits the definition to a tee.
Negligent manslaughter legal definition of Negligent manslaughter. Negligent manslaughter synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

2nd degree murder, depraved indifference to human life.

And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of.

 

[Kondor3]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My guess is she complained to the union, and they put pressure on him to change his tune.

 

[Kondor3]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My guess is she complained to the union, and they put pressure on him to change his tune.

Sounds entirely believable. The handful of 'Locals' that I've experienced over time would have had no shame in defending a POS like this because she holds a Card.

 

[syrenn]

The fact remains that there are times when "nothing" is exactly what should be done. There is nothing at all moral about the "do anything" argument. It should be obvious but if you don't know what you're doing you damn well shouldn't do it. You are many times more likely to cause harm than help and there is simply no excuse for that. Some of you guys would have cut the woman's throat to no purpose other than wanting to act like a TV hero.

As stated before, you are completely incorrect. The fact is, there is ONE thing that she should have done weather or not it actually changed anything – WALKED BACK THERE AND EVALUATED THE SITUATION. You keep harping on the fact that she could do nothing BUT the reality here is that she had no fucking clue that there was nothing that she could have done. In order for her to know that there was nothing to do, she would have had to take the time and bother to even LOOK at the woman, something that she refused to do. That is wrong and unlike syrenn, I actually believe it should be actionable as she was in uniform.

If she does not want the responsibility to bother and address the need of others then she should have never placed that uniform on her body. She is unfit for it.

And as I stated before you are wrong.
You really ought to make an effort to think about what others say (write) before babbling.
I have NOT made the claim that this EMT's actions were correct. I don't claim that she was right. I believe that you are wrong to judge without having the facts needed to make an informed judgment. And that is especially true when the authorities with that knowledge available and charged with oversight of the EMS have investigated and found no wrongdoing. Even a nasty criminal deserves a fair trial before being condemned.
I also agree that evaluation of the patient is the next logical step. But I am also very aware that government systems are not always logical.

Do you know all the rules and regs. that EMT's and/or radio dispatchers in NYC are required to operate under? It is altogether possible she was forbidden from treating this patient. It is also possible that she was aware that she was not competent to treat patients and that was why she had the job of dispatcher instead of being assigned to work with patients in the field. Should she have killed this woman trying to preform a trach. that wouldn't helped when an ambulance and ER with equipment, meds., and much more highly trained staff were only minutes away? I don't think so.

Is walking into the back room and assessing the situation... treating her in any way?

 

[syrenn]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My guess is she complained to the union, and they put pressure on him to change his tune.

i have maintained from the start..... this was about her being on her union break.

 

[Kondor3]

Well, Doc, did you ever get the sinking feeling that you were being perceived as Defending a Colleague rather than Advocating for the Doing of What is Right?

 

[Vox]

Charges Dropped Against Melissa, EMT Who Refused Care to Dying Pregnant Woman When on Coffee Break | Fox News Insider

TNB! At least her piece of shit boyfriend got what he deserved...he was shot a few months after the incident... Lets hope she gets that lucky...

Get more lawyer-regulated medical care and nobody will ever assist anybody.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

that's a cop out.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Charges Dropped Against Melissa, EMT Who Refused Care to Dying Pregnant Woman When on Coffee Break | Fox News Insider

TNB! At least her piece of shit boyfriend got what he deserved...he was shot a few months after the incident... Lets hope she gets that lucky...

You are a very disturbed individual. I mourn for my country if a majority ever become like you and start taking joy in causing pain and death to others.

ya probably went to the University of Utah. They're like that up there ya know.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My point exactly. After further investigation the charges were dropped. You are willing to condemn on only the sketchiest information (that might or might not be factual) without any sort of investigation. Ever hear of due process?

 

[syrenn]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My point exactly. After further investigation the charges were dropped. You are willing to condemn on only the sketchiest information (that might or might not be factual) without any sort of investigation. Ever hear of due process?

the charges may have been dropped.....union breaks and all ya know.


it does no change the fact that she is a piece of shit sad excuse for a human being with zero compassion or humanity...... for not even going into the back room to look.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"...And, of course, you are in a better position to make a judgment than her superiors and the legal system. Guilty unless proven innocent is not a position to be proud of."

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My point exactly. After further investigation the charges were dropped. You are willing to condemn on only the sketchiest information (that might or might not be factual) without any sort of investigation. Ever hear of due process?

Last time I checked I wasn't bound by due process.

 

[Noomi]

Well, the Legal System DID arrest her and charge her, didn't it, and her own boss WAS willing to toss her under the bus at first, wasn't he?

Even the System and Person which let her off the hook eventually were tempted to press ahead and relented only upon discovering the loophole which rendered further action moot.

My point exactly. After further investigation the charges were dropped. You are willing to condemn on only the sketchiest information (that might or might not be factual) without any sort of investigation. Ever hear of due process?

the charges may have been dropped.....union breaks and all ya know.


it does no change the fact that she is a piece of shit sad excuse for a human being with zero compassion or humanity...... for not even going into the back room to look.

Bet if she needed help and no one assisted she'd crack the shits.

 

[Noomi]

Hang on.
A woman with a serious, life threatening medical condition got pregnant.
Was that responsible?

She had asthma. People with asthma are quite capable of bearing a child.