Ethical(?) question.

[Gracie]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

 

[DarkFury]

While it may pull on ones heart strings the cruelty of it resides solely with the parents.

 

[Grandma]

Chances are that since they're poor they have only the hope that the Magic Sky Fairy will hear them and help them prosper.

One of the Sky Fairy's alleged rules is that Every Sperm Is Sacred.

The poor must procreate to please their god.

 

[Esmeralda]

Poor people have a lot of children because they are not educated. It behooves the goverment of that region of the world to provide these people with better education and opportunities to use that education. If you look around the world, countries with the highest education have the lowest level of childbirth. The countries with zero or near zero population growth are the countries with the highest levels of education. And this is not about birth control education, but education in general. To sit by and say "those stupid poor people" is to ignore the real problem. All people need to be well educated in order to reduce population growth around the world. Is it your problem even though you don't live in that particular small town? Yes. No man is an island.

 

[S.J.]

Put something in their water to sterilize 'em.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Put something in their water to sterilize 'em.

That's a nice NAZI approach...

 

[eagle1462010]

Another planned parent hood thread.......In the end.

 

[Sonny Clark]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

 

[DarkFury]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

 

[Sonny Clark]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

What's the alternative? Punish the children?

 

[DarkFury]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

What's the alternative? Punish the children?

If we knew the alternative one of us would be running for president. The system is broken at the parents. Do we agree on that?

 

[there4eyeM]

This is the dilemma for a normally sensitive human. Doing nothing is unthinkable. Simply helping eventually only leads to more suffering. It isn't either one or the other.
The only real way out is better education. Not necessarily 'Harvard for all', but teaching how to reason and think. We really have not started to apply what we know to be true about human psychology, biology and existence in the universe. 'Morals', 'patriotism', 'religion' and other fixed, limiting preconceptions work against enlightenment.

 

[DarkFury]

This is the dilemma for a normally sensitive human. Doing nothing is unthinkable. Simply helping eventually only leads to more suffering. It isn't either one or the other.
The only real way out is better education. Not necessarily 'Harvard for all', but teaching how to reason and think. We really have not started to apply what we know to be true about human psychology, biology and existence in the universe. 'Morals', 'patriotism', 'religion' and other fixed, limiting preconceptions work against enlightenment.

Lets go with the EBT end just for a bit. What if a parent would lose their kids for say 90 days first time for a drug bust or felony? You take the children where they are safe fed and educated. The "adult" loses EBT for that same period. The "adult" is using the child as a tool to meet the "adults" need and nothing more.

You have to change the pattern of abuse AT the source. Religion will not work because they are not the center of all things. You have to go to the source to fix the problem and the problem is "adults".

 

[Sonny Clark]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

What's the alternative? Punish the children?

If we knew the alternative one of us would be running for president. The system is broken at the parents. Do we agree on that?

The system has been broken for over a half century now. But, there are solutions. In order to fix the problems, especially the problems with poverty, it'll take an awakening of the majority of voters to correct decades of social and economic mistakes. For the majority of Americans, it's difficult to be self-supporting, especially with less and less opportunities with each passing year. We've created a poor and dependent society. 50% of our children live at or below the poverty line. Most jobs are low wage, part-time, or temporary employment. Higher education is more expensive, and the business norm is to off-shore out-source jobs, import labor, and allow millions of illegal immigrants to live and work in this country.

Basically, you can't tell the unemployed to go get a job, because we don't have an adequate number of jobs to fill the demand. And, remember, many that do have jobs still qualify for government assistance programs. In most areas of the country, a worker can not support a family on low wages.

In this country, we encourage poverty, homelessness, and the need for government assistance. We've created dependency. We've taken away opportunities. We can't blame the poor for being poor.

 

[Sonny Clark]

This is the dilemma for a normally sensitive human. Doing nothing is unthinkable. Simply helping eventually only leads to more suffering. It isn't either one or the other.
The only real way out is better education. Not necessarily 'Harvard for all', but teaching how to reason and think. We really have not started to apply what we know to be true about human psychology, biology and existence in the universe. 'Morals', 'patriotism', 'religion' and other fixed, limiting preconceptions work against enlightenment.

Lets go with the EBT end just for a bit. What if a parent would lose their kids for say 90 days first time for a drug bust or felony? You take the children where they are safe fed and educated. The "adult" loses EBT for that same period. The "adult" is using the child as a tool to meet the "adults" need and nothing more.

You have to change the pattern of abuse AT the source. Religion will not work because they are not the center of all things. You have to go to the source to fix the problem and the problem is "adults".

The problem is voters.

 

[DarkFury]

This is a strawman question. I will give the reason for the question later on. First I want to see what the responses are.

So this is the fictional story that MIGHT be biography:

There is a small town on the outskirts of a large city in a populated country. In this small town, the residents are extremely poor. Some are doing ok, but it's a paycheck to paycheck situation. However, some of the people in that town continue to have children. Lots of children. They are the extremely poor folks and I guess since they don't or can't work, they might as well have sex without contraceptives and rely on the taxes and generosity of the other poor folks to support those children...pay for food, schooling, medical needs of those children since they can't do it themselves. And those poor people flat out don't understand why others in the bigger city or state or even another country don't seem to care about their plight of having so many children they themselves cannot take care of.

My question is...do you donate willingly to these people musing on why they are not getting enough help while doing nothing to help themselves while popping out more kids? Does it pull on your heartstrings to know these kids are in dire need of sustenance, water, etc?

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

What's the alternative? Punish the children?

If we knew the alternative one of us would be running for president. The system is broken at the parents. Do we agree on that?

The system has been broken for over a half century now. But, there are solutions. In order to fix the problems, especially the problems with poverty, it'll take an awakening of the majority of voters to correct decades of social and economic mistakes. For the majority of Americans, it's difficult to be self-supporting, especially with less and less opportunities with each passing year. We've created a poor and dependent society. 50% of our children live at or below the poverty line. Most jobs are low wage, part-time, or temporary employment. Higher education is more expensive, and the business norm is to off-shore out-source jobs, import labor, and allow millions of illegal immigrants to live and work in this country.

Basically, you can't tell the unemployed to go get a job, because we don't have an adequate number of jobs to fill the demand. And, remember, many that do have jobs still qualify for government assistance programs. In most areas of the country, a worker can not support a family on low wages.

In this country, we encourage poverty, homelessness, and the need for government assistance. We've created dependency. We've taken away opportunities. We can't blame the poor for being poor.

If we want better economics then we need a president who makes better trade deals and builds pipelines. And we need to start putting Americans first again. That will still take generations but fewer the sooner we start.

 

[Sonny Clark]

It's not the children's fault. Children have no control over the habits, lifestyle, and behavior of irresponsible adults. Yes, it breaks my heart to see any child doing without, mistreated, abused, and living in a less than desirable environment. Regardless of what the parents do, we can't punish the children. Every child should have food, water, clothing, shelter, and proper health care.

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

What's the alternative? Punish the children?

If we knew the alternative one of us would be running for president. The system is broken at the parents. Do we agree on that?

The system has been broken for over a half century now. But, there are solutions. In order to fix the problems, especially the problems with poverty, it'll take an awakening of the majority of voters to correct decades of social and economic mistakes. For the majority of Americans, it's difficult to be self-supporting, especially with less and less opportunities with each passing year. We've created a poor and dependent society. 50% of our children live at or below the poverty line. Most jobs are low wage, part-time, or temporary employment. Higher education is more expensive, and the business norm is to off-shore out-source jobs, import labor, and allow millions of illegal immigrants to live and work in this country.

Basically, you can't tell the unemployed to go get a job, because we don't have an adequate number of jobs to fill the demand. And, remember, many that do have jobs still qualify for government assistance programs. In most areas of the country, a worker can not support a family on low wages.

In this country, we encourage poverty, homelessness, and the need for government assistance. We've created dependency. We've taken away opportunities. We can't blame the poor for being poor.

If we want better economics then we need a president who makes better trade deals and builds pipelines. And we need to start putting Americans first again. That will still take generations but fewer the sooner we start.

Well, talk to the voters. As long as we have stupid ignorant voters electing and re-electing professional politicians to run government, don't expect anything to change for the better. It's really very simple.

 

[Swagger]

Assuming this is about Blacks, shouldn't this be in the Race Relations forum?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Assuming this is about Blacks, shouldn't this be in the Race Relations forum?

I think that it's about children, poverty, government assistance, unemployment, lost opportunities, an anti-America government seated in Washington, decades of our social and economic decline, little hope for the future, the creation of a poor and dependent society, and the ills associated with government corruption. All of which adversely affects all races, nationalities, religions, and the future of America.

 

[DarkFury]

But we are dealing with a case I think of when we do give the "adults" the tools {EBT and such} they abuse those as well so the child never sees a benefit.

What's the alternative? Punish the children?

If we knew the alternative one of us would be running for president. The system is broken at the parents. Do we agree on that?

The system has been broken for over a half century now. But, there are solutions. In order to fix the problems, especially the problems with poverty, it'll take an awakening of the majority of voters to correct decades of social and economic mistakes. For the majority of Americans, it's difficult to be self-supporting, especially with less and less opportunities with each passing year. We've created a poor and dependent society. 50% of our children live at or below the poverty line. Most jobs are low wage, part-time, or temporary employment. Higher education is more expensive, and the business norm is to off-shore out-source jobs, import labor, and allow millions of illegal immigrants to live and work in this country.

Basically, you can't tell the unemployed to go get a job, because we don't have an adequate number of jobs to fill the demand. And, remember, many that do have jobs still qualify for government assistance programs. In most areas of the country, a worker can not support a family on low wages.

In this country, we encourage poverty, homelessness, and the need for government assistance. We've created dependency. We've taken away opportunities. We can't blame the poor for being poor.

If we want better economics then we need a president who makes better trade deals and builds pipelines. And we need to start putting Americans first again. That will still take generations but fewer the sooner we start.

Well, talk to the voters. As long as we have stupid ignorant voters electing and re-electing professional politicians to run government, don't expect anything to change for the better. It's really very simple.

We as voters need to hire better and we as men need to teach better. I don't care if it's a son/grandson/cousin whatever. We have to instill in them that getting ahead means ethics education and maybe getting dirty.

We find our self now in a populace that no longer respects the laborer. The dry waller the cement mason are all looked down on as "dirty" jobs unskilled jobs.

Building a house is a skill just as much as anything. We are losing about 10,000 WW2 vets per day. They built what we enjoy and quite honestly I think today's generation is to out of shape to even attempt what they did.

We need schools you bet but we need trade schools as well. And we need them NOW because Matthew says "Infastructure!" well that's fine IF you have the people. But we don't and the Chinese are rebuilding OUR country because of it.

We got jobs but this FORCED line of thinking that dirt on a person means stupid. That's simply not true.