Ethics of Right versus Left

[grammahiker]

This is a shiningly perfect example of why there should be no parties. Parties get in the way. They get people distracted from the issues at hand. Party loyalty is stupid. It wastes so much money and time its ridiculous. We never get anything accomplished because of it. We should vote each issue according to the research and information that we have, weigh the consequences and costs and then vote for what is right for the nation, state or community as a whole according to our conscience, not some party or what some lobbyist paid us to say or if I or a friend of mine will get a new contract as a result. This party nonsense has really got to stop. It truly has nothing to do with nothing. As a Christian I am pro-life and pro-family but the Bill of Rights states that the Gov has no right to mandate a national religion or to restrict anyone from expressing their God given right to their own religion. I also believe in paying people a morally acceptable wage providing morally acceptable health care benefits to compensate them for good hard work, ingenuity and loyalty. I believe a well educated and healthy society will have a very strong and wealthy GDP and GNP. An unhealthy and uneducated society will crumble and degenerate and will eventually be easily conquered.

 

[Oddball]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Pure pseudo-intellectual psychobabble swill.

 

[Intense]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Corruption of Principle is a Character Flaw. Sorry, but there are things you just don't compromise, it has nothing to do with fear. There is Moral Absolutism, and Moral Relativism. You choose, while you still can. To allow your Right of Choice to be taken away from you, is stupidity. You were born with the ability to reason and adapt, to choose for yourself what suits your interest. What makes or breaks you? Reason, Purpose, Vision, Invention, Discovery. Conformity has it's limited Justification, beyond that, it is misguided Tyranny. If you can't handle something, the least you can do is move out of the way and not obstruct those that can.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

There are pitfalls when trying to demonize your enemies, or those you disagree with. In this piece, I fall into all of them; I let my convictions and emotions paint the picture rather than the evidence.

Still, I think the sentiment is right; the facts are besides the point. My point is logical rather than evidence-based. The point I'm trying to make is that the right wing ethic is one based on self interest, and thus not ethical at all, while the left wing ethic is based on the interests of people besides yourself, and therefore ethical. Ethics is all about rightness of behavior, or interaction with those around us. Therefore, if your "ethic" is based on self-interest, it is not ethical at all; it doesn't account for your impact on others. Republicans are children who never grew up. I'm definitely not perfect, but I at least consider the impact of invading countries before millions die.

I've long thought about the essential difference between right and left, and if you hadn't figured it out: I'm on the left. Everyone is somewhere, even social scientists and political commentators. What is usually omitted is where they stand. I think that's important. In fact, I might advocate for mandatory admission of your party (for reporters).

Let's look at the issues, one by one, so that we can judge, on the merits of each, their ethics, rather than generalizing as is so often done.

Economy

Probably the issue that seduces the most left-leaners into the right fold, the economic philosophy of republicans is that 1) taxes suck, 2) government is the enemy of business people, and thus all people. This forgets the fact that almost all Americans work for either business people (rather than BEING business people) or the government, and thus would benefit from someone to keep business in check (with such regulations as no rape, no murder, no slavery, no child workers, no 120 hour weeks, no etc).

Health Care

If people get sick and don't have insurance, whether it's their fault or not (which, according to republicans, it probably is), they should die because they don't have the money to pay for treatment. Republicans don't want to pay for anyone else's anything. The world is hard, but it's better if we all come together. Imagine yourself without your family. Claiming your $100 a year is all fine and good, but saving the lives of countless others? To republicans: worthless. Why? Self-interest. Childishness.

Social Issues

Republicans: Jews are okay, but gays should be imprisoned. Gay marriage is a laughable proposition, because gay anything is sinful. If I don't understand it, it should be illegal.

Republicans are all about helping oneself. Democrats are about people helping each other. Sure, most republicans have good intentions and actually believe they're helping others by condemning them. But that's not all. Some are racist and even those who think they're doing good are actually doing bad because they don't understand that other people are beautiful, just like themselves. Being different is beautiful, just like being the same is. What's ugly is condemning, hating, and/or persecuting people. Don't forget, the right wing is the wing of slavery, naziism, war, Jim Crow, etc. Don't want to be in this category? Join those who love others besides themselves, on the left. Care about people besides yourself.

International Issues

Republicans: I'm afraid. The world might invade us. Terrorists might attack us. War sucks, but I don't mind it. Let's spend more than half of our budget on military, so that we have no money for teachers, health care, or anything else. Let's lay off teachers so we can invade countries thousands of miles away for the purpose of upsetting millions of people and causing them to attack us more. But if we have space missles, we can shoot all the people who hate us because we blow them out of existence. Awesome! It's like that explosion I saw on TV!

Conclusion

Ethical behavior, as your Mama (should have) taught you, is about how to behave in the world by considering others besides yourself. The republican ethic of the self is childish and, in my view, morally wrong because is considers only the self and not that of others. Christianity is strangely identified with the republican party, which further discredits christianity (it didn't need any more). My angry words don't mean that I devalue any person. I love every person ever born; however, if I were to sit idly by and let them rape the world, I'd be a bad person. Therefore, republicans, rethink your selfish ways and try thinking about other people.

You've given some thought to this post and though I am a right wing conservative and a Christian, there is really no room to differ or challenge your statements per se. Especially at the current time of the two parties in our nation state.

If we were to include so many of us like me and over the generations back down the long corridor of the two parties as they evolved, it was very very different then.

I practice what we once were as I love history and this nation state is fascinating for what is, has done, and what it is doing to itself. I am 6th generation and my family came here from Scotland in 1660.

So, in "response" to your post, I thought it would be good to go back a little further and to define what happens to cultures, without exceptions, to all nation states that arrive where we are at at the current. This way, the chasm of "parties' is rendered null.

I will begin here;

1. All great cultures in the past, all of them, begin as a form of Federation of free people. A conservative culture based on the provision to survive as a independent concern. We, the People, were no different. Compare this item list and cut and paste to where it is applied to the United States at this juncture in 2012.

2. When the body politic is formed in said nation, it tends to be as we were so framed, a Constitutional Federal Republic. A "democracy" is never considered since it is a manage of everything with no order.

3. Next comes the protection and freedom of said Republic's borders.

4. Systemic organizations ensues with laws, coins, roads, infrastructure, mail, money as currency, banking etc etc and a deep deep concern of no debt and no adventurism.

5. Then, as comfort ensues and provision for higher intellect evolves, the academia begins to flourish and influences that slowly dilute the Federal Republic begin slowly at first then become the dominate norm.

6. Then the system of governing becomes almost caustic towards its opposing parties as they evolve also.

7. Then culture and taboos and indulgence begins to erode origins and classes appear. With this comes infighting of classes and finally in rare times, civil war.

8. The system evolves more in self indulgence and self gratification. "All for one, one for all" is replaced to a peculiar aura of life that is about "Me".

9. The first foreign engagement, for whatever reason, occurs, and it is quickly learned that adventurism (war with or without reason) is highly lucurative.

10. Then along with adventurism, comes borrowing and out of control debt.

11. At this stage the culture's moral center begins to collapse. Men become more feminine, women become more manly, masculine.

12. Pretty soon, homosexuality dominates everything in a form of fashion statement, a form of expression of being avante garde.....Soon, the men are wearing miniskirts (Rome, Egypt, Greece) (known as Gladiators in modern times). The women are piercing their genitals, faces, body parts, tatoos, the hair is shortened, they also become the predominate social and political force (Cleopatra, Hillary Clinton).

13. Finally the adventurism, the cultural torment, the debt, the wholesale loss of being and process, does the nation state in through a democratic like socialism that effects said state to where no one is content.

!4. Collapse soon follows within one generation of item number 13.

We, the People, here, are at stage 12, drifting towards the first part of 13.

And that is basically what makes me, a conservative, in the true sense in what once was........

Hope this is helpful (this was and is part of my masters thesis, in gross abbreviation for time and space here.).

Hope that is helpful and thank you for your first post. Well done.

Fedora is tipped, and a different view perhaps for you from a right wing conservative.

Robert

 

[francoHFW]

Actually, there's bad health systems and rich a-holes that don't pay enough taxes, and stupid brainwashed fools, and countries that are falling apart because of the above.

Thank god for Obama and Dems. You people are ignorant fools. tyvm see sig.

 

[snakedoc]

I was trying to think of what would be a good response to this thread and this seems to say it best.

 

[mudwhistle]

There are pitfalls when trying to demonize your enemies, or those you disagree with. In this piece, I fall into all of them; I let my convictions and emotions paint the picture rather than the evidence.

Still, I think the sentiment is right; the facts are besides the point. My point is logical rather than evidence-based. The point I'm trying to make is that the right wing ethic is one based on self interest, and thus not ethical at all, while the left wing ethic is based on the interests of people besides yourself, and therefore ethical. Ethics is all about rightness of behavior, or interaction with those around us. Therefore, if your "ethic" is based on self-interest, it is not ethical at all; it doesn't account for your impact on others. Republicans are children who never grew up. I'm definitely not perfect, but I at least consider the impact of invading countries before millions die.

I've long thought about the essential difference between right and left, and if you hadn't figured it out: I'm on the left. Everyone is somewhere, even social scientists and political commentators. What is usually omitted is where they stand. I think that's important. In fact, I might advocate for mandatory admission of your party (for reporters).

Let's look at the issues, one by one, so that we can judge, on the merits of each, their ethics, rather than generalizing as is so often done.

Economy

Probably the issue that seduces the most left-leaners into the right fold, the economic philosophy of republicans is that 1) taxes suck, 2) government is the enemy of business people, and thus all people. This forgets the fact that almost all Americans work for either business people (rather than BEING business people) or the government, and thus would benefit from someone to keep business in check (with such regulations as no rape, no murder, no slavery, no child workers, no 120 hour weeks, no etc).

Health Care

If people get sick and don't have insurance, whether it's their fault or not (which, according to republicans, it probably is), they should die because they don't have the money to pay for treatment. Republicans don't want to pay for anyone else's anything. The world is hard, but it's better if we all come together. Imagine yourself without your family. Claiming your $100 a year is all fine and good, but saving the lives of countless others? To republicans: worthless. Why? Self-interest. Childishness.

Social Issues

Republicans: Jews are okay, but gays should be imprisoned. Gay marriage is a laughable proposition, because gay anything is sinful. If I don't understand it, it should be illegal.

Republicans are all about helping oneself. Democrats are about people helping each other. Sure, most republicans have good intentions and actually believe they're helping others by condemning them. But that's not all. Some are racist and even those who think they're doing good are actually doing bad because they don't understand that other people are beautiful, just like themselves. Being different is beautiful, just like being the same is. What's ugly is condemning, hating, and/or persecuting people. Don't forget, the right wing is the wing of slavery, naziism, war, Jim Crow, etc. Don't want to be in this category? Join those who love others besides themselves, on the left. Care about people besides yourself.

International Issues

Republicans: I'm afraid. The world might invade us. Terrorists might attack us. War sucks, but I don't mind it. Let's spend more than half of our budget on military, so that we have no money for teachers, health care, or anything else. Let's lay off teachers so we can invade countries thousands of miles away for the purpose of upsetting millions of people and causing them to attack us more. But if we have space missles, we can shoot all the people who hate us because we blow them out of existence. Awesome! It's like that explosion I saw on TV!

Conclusion

Ethical behavior, as your Mama (should have) taught you, is about how to behave in the world by considering others besides yourself. The republican ethic of the self is childish and, in my view, morally wrong because is considers only the self and not that of others. Christianity is strangely identified with the republican party, which further discredits christianity (it didn't need any more). My angry words don't mean that I devalue any person. I love every person ever born; however, if I were to sit idly by and let them rape the world, I'd be a bad person. Therefore, republicans, rethink your selfish ways and try thinking about other people.

You've given some thought to this post and though I am a right wing conservative and a Christian, there is really no room to differ or challenge your statements per se. Especially at the current time of the two parties in our nation state.

If we were to include so many of us like me and over the generations back down the long corridor of the two parties as they evolved, it was very very different then.

I practice what we once were as I love history and this nation state is fascinating for what is, has done, and what it is doing to itself. I am 6th generation and my family came here from Scotland in 1660.

So, in "response" to your post, I thought it would be good to go back a little further and to define what happens to cultures, without exceptions, to all nation states that arrive where we are at at the current. This way, the chasm of "parties' is rendered null.

I will begin here;

1. All great cultures in the past, all of them, begin as a form of Federation of free people. A conservative culture based on the provision to survive as a independent concern. We, the People, were no different. Compare this item list and cut and paste to where it is applied to the United States at this juncture in 2012.

2. When the body politic is formed in said nation, it tends to be as we were so framed, a Constitutional Federal Republic. A "democracy" is never considered since it is a manage of everything with no order.

3. Next comes the protection and freedom of said Republic's borders.

4. Systemic organizations ensues with laws, coins, roads, infrastructure, mail, money as currency, banking etc etc and a deep deep concern of no debt and no adventurism.

5. Then, as comfort ensues and provision for higher intellect evolves, the academia begins to flourish and influences that slowly dilute the Federal Republic begin slowly at first then become the dominate norm.

6. Then the system of governing becomes almost caustic towards its opposing parties as they evolve also.

7. Then culture and taboos and indulgence begins to erode origins and classes appear. With this comes infighting of classes and finally in rare times, civil war.

8. The system evolves more in self indulgence and self gratification. "All for one, one for all" is replaced to a peculiar aura of life that is about "Me".

9. The first foreign engagement, for whatever reason, occurs, and it is quickly learned that adventurism (war with or without reason) is highly lucurative.

10. Then along with adventurism, comes borrowing and out of control debt.

11. At this stage the culture's moral center begins to collapse. Men become more feminine, women become more manly, masculine.

12. Pretty soon, homosexuality dominates everything in a form of fashion statement, a form of expression of being avante garde.....Soon, the men are wearing miniskirts (Rome, Egypt, Greece) (known as Gladiators in modern times). The women are piercing their genitals, faces, body parts, tatoos, the hair is shortened, they also become the predominate social and political force (Cleopatra, Hillary Clinton).

13. Finally the adventurism, the cultural torment, the debt, the wholesale loss of being and process, does the nation state in through a democratic like socialism that effects said state to where no one is content.

!4. Collapse soon follows within one generation of item number 13.

We, the People, here, are at stage 12, drifting towards the first part of 13.

And that is basically what makes me, a conservative, in the true sense in what once was........

Hope this is helpful (this was and is part of my masters thesis, in gross abbreviation for time and space here.).

Hope that is helpful and thank you for your first post. Well done.

Fedora is tipped, and a different view perhaps for you from a right wing conservative.

Robert

Well, we don't have to go to hell with our eyes wide shut.

I'd rather put it off for a century or two.

 

[bayoubridge]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Corruption of Principle is a Character Flaw. Sorry, but there are things you just don't compromise, it has nothing to do with fear. There is Moral Absolutism, and Moral Relativism. You choose, while you still can. To allow you Right of Choice to be taken away from you, is stupidity. You were born with the ability to reason and adapt, to choose for yourself what suits your interest. What makes or breaks you? Reason, Purpose, Vision, Invention, Discovery. Conformity has it's limited Justification, beyond that, it is misguided Tyranny. If you can't handle something, the least you can do is move out of the way and not obstruct those that can.

huh?

 

[Oddball]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Corruption of Principle is a Character Flaw. Sorry, but there are things you just don't compromise, it has nothing to do with fear. There is Moral Absolutism, and Moral Relativism. You choose, while you still can. To allow you Right of Choice to be taken away from you, is stupidity. You were born with the ability to reason and adapt, to choose for yourself what suits your interest. What makes or breaks you? Reason, Purpose, Vision, Invention, Discovery. Conformity has it's limited Justification, beyond that, it is misguided Tyranny. If you can't handle something, the least you can do is move out of the way and not obstruct those that can.

huh?

You can post all that self-congratulatory pseudo-intellectual socialist bullshit, yet can't understand plain English?

 

[mudwhistle]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Actually some would say that most Democrat voters have large amygdala because they fall prey to fear tactics so easily and tend to relate to issues on a purely emotional level. And tolerance is something that is learned, not genetic. So is liberalism.

 

[naturegirl]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Huh??? I am for the most part fearless, I am also a fiscal conservative. I don't believe in cradle to grave government assistance.

Change is good, it needs to be embraced. Change for the few or self absorbed is unacceptable. Without change for the good of all, we must persevere until we find that mutual understanding. Forcing change without thought of future expectations only helps in the here and now. It's got to be about tomorrow and future generations to be effective.

Our founding fathers were all about change, they were progressive but they thought about the future, that's why the Constitution still lives. The road we're on is destined for doom, we must change for the better and reduce government for it's intended purpose. Government is not the answer for it's people. The People are the answer for government.

United we stand, divided we fall. We must unite to change this path of destruction we're headed down.

 

[mudwhistle]

Actually, it's all in the brain structure. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear and are more inclined to intigrate conservative views into their belief system. They have a low tolerance for change. On the other hand, findings of an association between anterior cingulate cortex volume and political attitudes may be linked with tolerance to uncertainty and change - which may allow people to accept more liberal views.

Huh??? I am for the most part fearless, I am also a fiscal conservative. I don't believe in cradle to grave government assistance.

Change is good, it needs to be embraced. Change for the few or self absorbed is unacceptable. Without change for the good of all, we must persevere until we find that mutual understanding. Forcing change without thought of future expectations only helps in the here and now. It's got to be about tomorrow and future generations to be effective.

Our founding fathers were all about change, they were progressive but they thought about the future, that's why the Constitution still lives. The road we're on is destined for doom, we must change for the better and reduce government for it's intended purpose. Government is not the answer for it's people. The People are the answer for government.

United we stand, divided we fall. We must unite to change this path of destruction we're headed down.

But that sounds corny.

They have this "me" complex and to dissuade guilt over being self-centered they take up useless causes to help the poor and to conserve.......like turning a light-bulb off for an hour.

Oh Boy.....I just saved a Polar Bear!!!!!

 

[gallantwarrior]

What is hilarious is that every one of the points the OP brought up has been said over and over by conservatives right here on this board. then when you're called out on it... You go the "they don't know us" route....

Fuck you... you guys are selfish as hell. You can't sit here and say "why should I have to pay?" ad nauseum.... then deny your selfishness later.

Take a fucking stand and own your greed.

Oh, I guess I hit a nerve.....you must have a comprehension problem, much like the OP teacher that doesn't know when to start a new paragraph.

Let's see which candidate gave the most to charity, let's see who wants to keep people on the government dole instead of helping them through charitable contributions.

WHO'S GREEDY? Obama Gave 1% to Charity, Romney Gave 15% - Mitt Romney - Fox Nation

When you can't dispute the facts, you attack the messenger.

Yeah... if everyone gave enough to charity we wouldn't need social programs, would we?

What the hell does the charitible donations of a multi-millionaire candidate have to do with the rest of the country? Oh... that's right... nothing.

Because once your side gets it's way and destroys every social program we have.... you will delight in your victory and go about your selfish lives and watch with glee all the suffering of the masses that you have created.... then you will go all "Marie Antoinette" on them and say.... "let them eat cake".

At least that's your fantasy. The most likely truth is you yourself will be one of the suffering masses.

If only those who had a true need applied to those who give for charity, there would be more than enough to go around. Unfortunately, the government has spoiled too many be encouraging them to become victims instead of helping themselves.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What is hilarious is that every one of the points the OP brought up has been said over and over by conservatives right here on this board. then when you're called out on it... You go the "they don't know us" route....Fuck you... you guys are selfish as hell. You can't sit here and say "why should I have to pay?" ad nauseum.... then deny your selfishness later.

Take a fucking stand and own your greed.

Now THAT'S hilarious!! I don't know any conservatives that have stated the things that was posted! You say this only because, like the majority of libs, you only hear the parts you want to hear, take everything said out of context, and make it your own statement to "proove" that Conservatives are just plain evil people!

Why don't YOU take a fucking stand and own your own stupidity?

Really? How many times do I hear "why should I have to pay for someone else's(insert here)? All the fuckin' time.

How many times do I see you people say "taxation is theft at gunpoint"?.... all the fuckin' time.

Stop denying your greed.

You hear it so frequently because it is true. Government robs those who produce in order to enrich those who do not. Those who truly do need a hand up are fewer than we are lead to believe because those are the people who gain the most from a profligate government.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What I find most interesting is your lack of content.

What I find interesting is that you have your head up your ass.

As a group, Liberals are quite stingy and self-serving, unless they are spending somebody else's money.

I rest my case.... I find it amusing that Conservatives don't think Liberals pay taxes. We are spending OUR money too numbnuts.

You just don't want YOUR money to pay for anything in the "social" realm.... Hence, the greed I spoke of previously.

Why can't you people just be honest and admit that you are self serving pricks who don't care about your fellow man? Oh... unless they are having sex in ways you think is immoral...then you're all about your fellow man.

Here's a refreshing new idea for you, how about we confess that we would rather direct what charities our money goes to support. Why should the government dictate who shall receive what we might contribute, and in what amounts. Oh, yeah, I forgot, your type is incapable of the concept of giving of your own free will. What has not been extorted from you will not be otherwise given. Ooops! My bad...

 

[gallantwarrior]

Lol, I understand getting angry. I do it too. But you have to admit that liberals are about ethics while conservatives are about self interest

Guess again, I don't have to admit to any such untruth or false construct.

 

[mudwhistle]

Now THAT'S hilarious!! I don't know any conservatives that have stated the things that was posted! You say this only because, like the majority of libs, you only hear the parts you want to hear, take everything said out of context, and make it your own statement to "proove" that Conservatives are just plain evil people!

Why don't YOU take a fucking stand and own your own stupidity?

Really? How many times do I hear "why should I have to pay for someone else's(insert here)? All the fuckin' time.

How many times do I see you people say "taxation is theft at gunpoint"?.... all the fuckin' time.

Stop denying your greed.

You hear it so frequently because it is true. Government robs those who produce in order to enrich those who do not. Those who truly do need a hand up are fewer than we are lead to believe because those are the people who gain the most from a profligate government.

Government doesn't produce anything. It only takes.

 

[freedombecki]

Rather I'm saying that if youve got gobs of money, the whole of humanity should enjoy it, not just you. Why you? You think you deserve it more than others? Lol thlats ridiculous.

You want somebody else's bounty instead of earning your own way?

Why should you demand what someone else has?

I saw "Oliver," too, but I don't agree that one necessarily needs to pick a pocket or two just because it's a cute musical.

 

[Ropey]

"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

My BFF is a liberal, at heart. She is cynical and pessimistic about anything I call success and the word I hear her use the most, is "FREE.' She loves anything free, whether she likes or needs it or not. She will drive for miles to acquire anything free. A flower in a bud vase, a beer, anything at all. But she will also "give" freely.

I won't go with her. I love everything else about her. She is a beautiful person, inside and out and our senses of humor are our bond. Plus she knows how to love.....

She has recently stepped it up to becoming an Independent. I don't trust that though.... I think once you feel others owe you a living, you will always feel that way.

I can Imagine how many Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars she will Piss Away with Universal Health Care.

Not if it isn't implemented.

 

[mudwhistle]

Rather I'm saying that if youve got gobs of money, the whole of humanity should enjoy it, not just you. Why you? You think you deserve it more than others? Lol thlats ridiculous.

You want somebody else's bounty instead of earning your own way?

Why should you demand what someone else has?

I saw "Oliver," too, but I don't agree that one necessarily needs to pick a pocket or two just because it's a cute musical.

You have to be a serious retard to think that a blow-hard politician is actually gonna come through on all of their overblown promises......especially when we're so deeply in debt.

Who the hell do they think is gonna end up paying for it???