Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[Foxfyre]

What happens when employers build Widgets and don't pay a wage their employees can support their families on?

The taxpayer steps in and subsidizes food, housing and healthcare for that family. Employer gets to profit off of cheap widgets.....taxpayers make up the difference

Both of you are right, and there in lies the problem.

If you do nothing Business will take advantage of Labor. If you go from a 7.50 an hour to a 15.00 an hour Minimum wage. You absolutely will see Inflation of prices that will eat up most if not all of any gain the workers will see in their actual ability to get ahead.

Raising the Minimum wage has unintended consequences that hit the poor very Hard.

First of course is the inflation of Prices Business that rely on Minimum Wage Workers charge. The Very places the Poor rely on, Like their grocery store, Walmart, Fast food, basically the things that are cheap, are usually things made, or provided by companies that Employ Minimum Wage workers. The Cost of all that stuff will go up. If you Double the Minimum Wage they will sky rocket.

Second it makes small Businesses reluctant to hire, and likely even to lay off people. It puts a big Damper on Entry level Job Hiring.

Labor is a commodity like any other commodity or input for production of goods and services. As long as people are willing to work for minimum wage, there will be minimum wage jobs. But if we generate an economy in which people don't have to work for minimum wage if they don't want to, you see minimum wage jobs disappearing. Which is why McDonalds is paying entry level workers well above minimum wage right now and a Big Mac, fries, and a medium coke will cost you as much as a broiled trout, salad, bread, and ice tea down the block at the diner where the staff is paid below minimum wage but makes up the difference in tips.

As I previously posted, I worked for 60 cents an hour at the college dormitory front desk and for the college laundry and was glad to get the money as I was able to study while doing both jobs and it provided a little extra spending money. But, if the college had not been able to hire students at 60 cents an hour, they would have either paid more or increased hours of the regular staff. An increase in wages would have reflected in the cost of our tuition, meals, books, fees, etc.

There are no free lunches. Somebody somewhere pays for everything we get that we don't work for.

 

[rightwinger]

Yep. And biz owners can't hire good help if their taxes go up.

Why not?

Your costs of employee wages are not taxed......only profits

That's right.... running and owning a business is ALL about profits. If raising the minimum wage for everyone is the same amount of pay for one employee... then those businesses will be cutting one employee and making the rest take up the slack. Some will benefit from an increase in minimum wage and a good deal will lose their jobs becasue of it.

The question was taxes not wages. You are only taxed on what profit you make. What you pay in wages is deducted from your gross

 

[syrenn]

Why not?

Your costs of employee wages are not taxed......only profits

That's right.... running and owning a business is ALL about profits. If raising the minimum wage for everyone is the same amount of pay for one employee... then those businesses will be cutting one employee and making the rest take up the slack. Some will benefit from an increase in minimum wage and a good deal will lose their jobs becasue of it.

The question was taxes not wages. You are only taxed on what profit you make. What you pay in wages is deducted from your gross

My mistake, you're right.

 

[asterism]

Why not?

Your costs of employee wages are not taxed......only profits

That's right.... running and owning a business is ALL about profits. If raising the minimum wage for everyone is the same amount of pay for one employee... then those businesses will be cutting one employee and making the rest take up the slack. Some will benefit from an increase in minimum wage and a good deal will lose their jobs becasue of it.

The question was taxes not wages. You are only taxed on what profit you make. What you pay in wages is deducted from your gross

Higher tax rates reduce available capital used to expand and they raise the cost of doing business. They also lower the expected return on investment. Higher taxes do in fact lead to less hiring unless there is a huge overriding factor happening at the same time.

 

[Salt Jones]

If it takes 15.00 an hour to have a "living" wage, well I really dont have an issue with that except that really all your doing is raising the cost to build a widget, or grow a widget to a point in which the 8.00 an hour becomes 15.00 an hour it seems to me
What is a living wage?

$45 per hour.

 

[Bern80]

Doe you lefties know what is the primary purpose of a business?

Do you?

I can tell you what it is not. Provide your basic necessities.

 

[pgm]

Then don't have kids you cant afford.... that is the simple part of personal responsibility.

Yes it is very fair to ask that of a single mother. Her child, her responsibility. What does fair to the child have anything to do with any of this?

If working 80 hours a week is what it takes for her and her child to make it... then yes...tough...work the 80 hours. I am sure she is not the only single mother out there.... band together and take care of each others kids. That is not such a far out idea ya know.

(100 hours. 80 was insufficient in my example).
Lets say the father and primary bread winner dies. Then a single mother of one wouldn't look so irresponsible. I use the single mother example because a large number of those working minimum wage jobs over the age of 25 are single mothers.

Anyway, we'll all end up paying the costs of it eventually. You either pay for the woman's welfare through taxes. Or you pay when that kid decides his only option out of this way of life is to turn to selling drugs (his mother certainly can't afford school).

I'm not saying that raising the minimum wage is the answer. I just think it's callous and short-sighted to criticize someone who is working 40 hours a week at well below a livable wage for not getting a second or third job. Someone working 80-100 hours a week and raising a family is not lazy.

 

[Againsheila]

If it takes 15.00 an hour to have a "living" wage, well I really dont have an issue with that except that really all your doing is raising the cost to build a widget, or grow a widget to a point in which the 8.00 an hour becomes 15.00 an hour it seems to me
What is a living wage?

Minimum wage was, and should be again, a living wage....meaning one person working a 40 hour a week job makes enough money to rent their own apartment, provide their own transportation, pay their medical bills, their utility bills, and buy their clothes.

Today you can't even get an apartment on minimum wage.

In 1968, my brother, on a mw job, got his own apartment, his own car(brand spanking new), and went to college part time in the evenings....can't do that anymore on a mw job.

sorry... i dont think so.

Get some room mates and split bills. OR work two jobs, that is not a new concept.

No it's not, and people do have roommates and do work several jobs...they still aren't getting anywhere. There is something wrong when you have to work two jobs in the richest country in the world just to provide a roof over your head and food in your belly.

BTW, we work more hours and have fewer vacations than any other industrialized nation...you really think this is a good thing?

We've not made progress, we've lost progress and you are just saying "get another job." What happens when two jobs aren't enough to pay the bills? You give up sleeping????

Once upon a time a person worked two jobs to get ahead, or to send their kid through college, now they are working two jobs just to pay the bills and you think that's a good thing?

 

[Againsheila]

That's right.... running and owning a business is ALL about profits. If raising the minimum wage for everyone is the same amount of pay for one employee... then those businesses will be cutting one employee and making the rest take up the slack. Some will benefit from an increase in minimum wage and a good deal will lose their jobs becasue of it.

The question was taxes not wages. You are only taxed on what profit you make. What you pay in wages is deducted from your gross

Higher tax rates reduce available capital used to expand and they raise the cost of doing business. They also lower the expected return on investment. Higher taxes do in fact lead to less hiring unless there is a huge overriding factor happening at the same time.

Corporations and the wealthy are paying fewer taxes than ever before in history. How many jobs were created in August? oh Yeah, NONE!!!!

 

[percysunshine]

If it takes 15.00 an hour to have a "living" wage, well I really dont have an issue with that except that really all your doing is raising the cost to build a widget, or grow a widget to a point in which the 8.00 an hour becomes 15.00 an hour it seems to me
What is a living wage?

Several billion people on the planet manage to live on $2.00 a day.

Do the math.

It used to be $1.50, but inflation and all...

 

[Paulie]

That is a subjective question. The answer is there really is no living wage since the cost of living varies so widely depending on where you live. It's why a minimum wage is so pointless.

It's why central planning in GENERAL is pointless.

 

[percysunshine]

That is a subjective question. The answer is there really is no living wage since the cost of living varies so widely depending on where you live. It's why a minimum wage is so pointless.

It's why central planning in GENERAL is pointless.

There are enough examples available that centrally planned economies can be determined to be specificly pointless.

 

[pgm]

Several billion people on the planet manage to live on $2.00 a day.

Do the math.

It used to be $1.50, but inflation and all...

You can't live off of $2 in America.

 

[asterism]

Minimum wage was, and should be again, a living wage....meaning one person working a 40 hour a week job makes enough money to rent their own apartment, provide their own transportation, pay their medical bills, their utility bills, and buy their clothes.

Today you can't even get an apartment on minimum wage.

In 1968, my brother, on a mw job, got his own apartment, his own car(brand spanking new), and went to college part time in the evenings....can't do that anymore on a mw job.

sorry... i dont think so.

Get some room mates and split bills. OR work two jobs, that is not a new concept.

No it's not, and people do have roommates and do work several jobs...they still aren't getting anywhere. There is something wrong when you have to work two jobs in the richest country in the world just to provide a roof over your head and food in your belly.

What is wrong with that? Success requires effort. What's wrong with paying the wage a person is willing to accept?

Will you pay double for my products over a competitor if I pay all of my employees a living wage?

BTW, we work more hours and have fewer vacations than any other industrialized nation...you really think this is a good thing?

It's my choice to do so on my own, so yes. If I wanted the Candian or French lifestyle I'd move there.

We've not made progress, we've lost progress and you are just saying "get another job." What happens when two jobs aren't enough to pay the bills? You give up sleeping????

Live within your means.

Once upon a time a person worked two jobs to get ahead, or to send their kid through college, now they are working two jobs just to pay the bills and you think that's a good thing?

Who is working two jobs just to pay living expenses for an extended period of time? I've had plenty of minimum wage jobs and have always gotten a raise after a few months for working hard. Clock punchers who don't want to put forth the effort to get ahead are stuck, that's true.

 

[asterism]

The question was taxes not wages. You are only taxed on what profit you make. What you pay in wages is deducted from your gross

Higher tax rates reduce available capital used to expand and they raise the cost of doing business. They also lower the expected return on investment. Higher taxes do in fact lead to less hiring unless there is a huge overriding factor happening at the same time.

Corporations and the wealthy are paying fewer taxes than ever before in history. How many jobs were created in August? oh Yeah, NONE!!!!

That's actually not true. There were higher tax rates in the past but lower aggregate tax burdens.

 

[asterism]

That is a subjective question. The answer is there really is no living wage since the cost of living varies so widely depending on where you live. It's why a minimum wage is so pointless. Hell my kids got 8 or 9 bucks an hour at Taco Bell when they were growing up. And the minimum wage was far below that.

if it was that pointless then why would states increase the wages? you would think that if it was pointless they would try to keep it as low as possible.

Political pressure.

 

[thereisnospoon]

WHAT IS A LIVING WAGE?

The idea behind a living wage is that people who work in our community should be able to live decently and raise their families here. This requires a wage and benefits package that takes into account the area-specific cost of living, as well as the basic expenses involved in supporting a family.


Although living wage standards do, by definition, vary by region, they are all considerably higher than the federal minimum wage. This is because the minimum wage does not begin to meet the needs of working people or families anywhere in the country: in fact, it puts a parent with one child below the federal poverty line. A living wage aims to correct this by establishing, at a local level, a more reasonable minimum wage. Like many municipal standards in place around the country....

The Living Wage Fact Sheet

1. The minimum wage isn't intended to support a family... it is more an entry level wage.
2. How do you explain the majority of people who don't require a living wage because they have skills/education, etc. that pays well?

Living wage is a bullshit concept.

not really....

especially when we end up paying for gvt assistance for those not earning a living wage....

we do subsidize business's profit by allowing them to pay below poverty standards.

children under 18 are NOT the majority of workers making minimum wage.... working mothers and senior citizens is where the majority lies.

Yes, really. And if you had the intelligence to figure that out, you'd be worth the attempt to explain it to you.
Senior citizens who work are mostly part time service jobs so they can earn a little extra cash. Min wage jobs are held by unskilled workers. I see no problem there. Min wage work is entry level work. There is a clear way up from minimum wage. That is improve one's skills and increase their value as an employee.
There is no magic wand. This idea of a "living wage" is some trumped up nonsense that comes from people who think it's ok to have no drive or ambition but should be gifted with higher pay just because the unskilled have "put in their time".
Look, this is a non issue. The federal government lacks the Constitutional authority to further interfere in the internal affairs of law abiding private business.
IMO, the federal government over stepped it's boundaries by passing a min wage law.

 

[thereisnospoon]

not really....

especially when we end up paying for gvt assistance for those not earning a living wage....

we do subsidize business's profit by allowing them to pay below poverty standards.

children under 18 are NOT the majority of workers making minimum wage.... working mothers and senior citizens is where the majority lies.

Wrongo... over half according to the bureau of Labor Statistics are under 25. Not to mention, out of about 73,000,000 hourly workers, only 980,000 were at or below the minimum wage.

Again, living wage is just another weapon in the class envy, anti-capitalism war chest.

i'm not wrong, you are nola....

in this country, those UNDER 18 are not adults, over 18 IS AN ADULT....they are not children or teens in high school.

What is your point?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Maybe, what we need is a society where more money is used to pay people at the bottom of the pyramid, and less at the top of the pyramid. Then, prices don't have to rise after all.

And just who gets to decide how wealth gets distributed? You? The federal government?
Oh please. You progressives are a curious bunch of economically and fiscally challenged whiners.

You don't "decide" how wealth gets distributed. However, if wealth is grossly distributed in one sector, you do not continue incentives that will send future wealth to that sector

Wealth is not distributed. It is either earned or created.
You people want to decide how to take it from the rightful owners of wealth then decide the winners of the bounty.
The zero sum game does not exist.

 

[syrenn]

Minimum wage was, and should be again, a living wage....meaning one person working a 40 hour a week job makes enough money to rent their own apartment, provide their own transportation, pay their medical bills, their utility bills, and buy their clothes.

Today you can't even get an apartment on minimum wage.

In 1968, my brother, on a mw job, got his own apartment, his own car(brand spanking new), and went to college part time in the evenings....can't do that anymore on a mw job.

sorry... i dont think so.

Get some room mates and split bills. OR work two jobs, that is not a new concept.

No it's not, and people do have roommates and do work several jobs...they still aren't getting anywhere. There is something wrong when you have to work two jobs in the richest country in the world just to provide a roof over your head and food in your belly.

BTW, we work more hours and have fewer vacations than any other industrialized nation...you really think this is a good thing?

We've not made progress, we've lost progress and you are just saying "get another job." What happens when two jobs aren't enough to pay the bills? You give up sleeping????

Once upon a time a person worked two jobs to get ahead, or to send their kid through college, now they are working two jobs just to pay the bills and you think that's a good thing?

Getting somewhere or making progress is not the issue.

A living wage is is enough for:

Is enough to put a studio apartment over your head the size of a closet. A living wage is a beat up used car. A living wage is no flat panel TV, video game, Cable or Dish. A living wage is clothes from wallchart. A living wage is a bare bones no bells or whistles cell phone. A living wage is no computer, laptop or internet. A living wage is no vacations, nights out on the town, or movies. A living wage is clipping coupons, looking for sales and store brand food. A living wage is only having children and pets you can afford.

The rest are WANTS not needs. I think you get my idea here.