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If you want to pay the bills being a burger flipper, no matter how good you are at it, you better be working for the most upscale burger place in the world. Demand and get a wage more than it is worth to the owner of the burger joint, however, and you won't have a job for long. If the government forces the issue, the burger joint will likely not stay in business for long and nobody will have a job at any amount.
Smart people work for burger joints because they don't need to make a lot of money and they ENJOY working for the burger joint - or - they are building a work ethic, and references to qualify for something better. Stupid people work there even though they hate it and don't make enough money because they simply have not qualified themselves to do anything else.
And then there are people who work at a burger joint because they can't do anything else.
Why can't they do anything else?
And then there are people who work at a burger joint because they can't do anything else.
Why can't they do anything else?
For a variety of reasons. No ability, no talent, no common sense, no education, no desire, no people skills, poor hygene, bad breath, physical deformities, psychological problems, bad luck . . .
A living wage is what we used to have in this country when anyone with half an ounce of education, ambition, and drive could get themselves out of bed in the morning and go to job that actually paid enough to support the ideal of the American Dream.
What's your point? What benevolent god of the economy wrote in some book way back 'that's the way it's supposed to work'?
My point?
Things used to be better. Now they're worse.
You can't argue that.
That still does not mean you should not make enough while your doing it to pay your bills does it?
Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?
And then there are people who work at a burger joint because they can't do anything else.
Why can't they do anything else?
For a variety of reasons. No ability, no talent, no common sense, no education, no desire, no people skills, poor hygene, bad breath, physical deformities, psychological problems, bad luck . . .
And then there are people who work at a burger joint because they can't do anything else.
Why can't they do anything else?
For a variety of reasons. No ability, no talent, no common sense, no education, no desire, no people skills, poor hygene, bad breath, physical deformities, psychological problems, bad luck . . .
Why can't they do anything else?
For a variety of reasons. No ability, no talent, no common sense, no education, no desire, no people skills, poor hygene, bad breath, physical deformities, psychological problems, bad luck . . .
Not everyone can play linebacker in the pros either... Nor can a person in a wheel chair bitch when they won't be given a chance at a job testing leg press weight machines
The important thing is that most of the things that allegedly 'keep' someone from doing other things are all choices and personal behaviors... and sorry charlie, that is all on them... most can advance in even small ways above entry level jobs, they simply choose to do things that prevent that from happening... Even the guy with downs syndrome at the local wing joint in my area has done enough to earn raises and promotions to a wage above minimum.. and was very happy and proud to announce it to many of the regular customers he considers friends
For a variety of reasons. No ability, no talent, no common sense, no education, no desire, no people skills, poor hygene, bad breath, physical deformities, psychological problems, bad luck . . .
Not everyone can play linebacker in the pros either... Nor can a person in a wheel chair bitch when they won't be given a chance at a job testing leg press weight machines
The important thing is that most of the things that allegedly 'keep' someone from doing other things are all choices and personal behaviors... and sorry charlie, that is all on them... most can advance in even small ways above entry level jobs, they simply choose to do things that prevent that from happening... Even the guy with downs syndrome at the local wing joint in my area has done enough to earn raises and promotions to a wage above minimum.. and was very happy and proud to announce it to many of the regular customers he considers friends
Yup. I have never once been offered a high paying role in a movie or TV sitcom even though I think I could do as good a job at that as many who do get those roles. I've never been offered a job as a fashion model or advertising spokesperson though I have some volunteer experience as both. I frankly don't have the physique or the other necessary talents to do that. I've never been offered an opportunity to try out for a professional sports team despite my experience doing sports and nobody has even considered me for a lucrative job of brain surgeon or nuclear physicist.
But in those positions for which I do have the skill set, ability, and ambition to do, I have often started out at minimum wage, starvation wages for us, and didn't stay there long because given the chance to do so, I was able to make myself far more valuable than minimum wage to my employers.
It is the difference between liberalism and conservatism. Conservatism expects to merit or earn what they have according to initiative and ability. Liberalism expects to merit what they need based on need.
Not everyone can play linebacker in the pros either... Nor can a person in a wheel chair bitch when they won't be given a chance at a job testing leg press weight machines
The important thing is that most of the things that allegedly 'keep' someone from doing other things are all choices and personal behaviors... and sorry charlie, that is all on them... most can advance in even small ways above entry level jobs, they simply choose to do things that prevent that from happening... Even the guy with downs syndrome at the local wing joint in my area has done enough to earn raises and promotions to a wage above minimum.. and was very happy and proud to announce it to many of the regular customers he considers friends
Yup. I have never once been offered a high paying role in a movie or TV sitcom even though I think I could do as good a job at that as many who do get those roles. I've never been offered a job as a fashion model or advertising spokesperson though I have some volunteer experience as both. I frankly don't have the physique or the other necessary talents to do that. I've never been offered an opportunity to try out for a professional sports team despite my experience doing sports and nobody has even considered me for a lucrative job of brain surgeon or nuclear physicist.
But in those positions for which I do have the skill set, ability, and ambition to do, I have often started out at minimum wage, starvation wages for us, and didn't stay there long because given the chance to do so, I was able to make myself far more valuable than minimum wage to my employers.
It is the difference between liberalism and conservatism. Conservatism expects to merit or earn what they have according to initiative and ability. Liberalism expects to merit what they need based on need.
Either way what is the minimum one who WORKS and is an adult should really make? 7.25 an hour is a joke and I dont care if a hamburger goes from 5.00 a meal to 7.00 a meal if you WORK and are an adult I think 12.50 an hour is the wage
Yup. I have never once been offered a high paying role in a movie or TV sitcom even though I think I could do as good a job at that as many who do get those roles. I've never been offered a job as a fashion model or advertising spokesperson though I have some volunteer experience as both. I frankly don't have the physique or the other necessary talents to do that. I've never been offered an opportunity to try out for a professional sports team despite my experience doing sports and nobody has even considered me for a lucrative job of brain surgeon or nuclear physicist.
But in those positions for which I do have the skill set, ability, and ambition to do, I have often started out at minimum wage, starvation wages for us, and didn't stay there long because given the chance to do so, I was able to make myself far more valuable than minimum wage to my employers.
It is the difference between liberalism and conservatism. Conservatism expects to merit or earn what they have according to initiative and ability. Liberalism expects to merit what they need based on need.
Either way what is the minimum one who WORKS and is an adult should really make? 7.25 an hour is a joke and I dont care if a hamburger goes from 5.00 a meal to 7.00 a meal if you WORK and are an adult I think 12.50 an hour is the wage
Again why? Since when has the purpose of anyone going into business been to provided for the basic needs of their employees? Why is that their responsibility? Why is it not YOUR responsibility to develop the a skill set that will pay you a living wage?
That still does not mean you should not make enough while your doing it to pay your bills does it?
It depends. It depends on what you think the purpose and responsibility of a business is. Some say the purpose of a business is to make a profit. Some say the more accurate purpose of a business is to create customers. NEVER have I heard it said that a business exists for the purpose of providing for the basic neccessities of its employees.
Not everyone can play linebacker in the pros either... Nor can a person in a wheel chair bitch when they won't be given a chance at a job testing leg press weight machines
The important thing is that most of the things that allegedly 'keep' someone from doing other things are all choices and personal behaviors... and sorry charlie, that is all on them... most can advance in even small ways above entry level jobs, they simply choose to do things that prevent that from happening... Even the guy with downs syndrome at the local wing joint in my area has done enough to earn raises and promotions to a wage above minimum.. and was very happy and proud to announce it to many of the regular customers he considers friends
Yup. I have never once been offered a high paying role in a movie or TV sitcom even though I think I could do as good a job at that as many who do get those roles. I've never been offered a job as a fashion model or advertising spokesperson though I have some volunteer experience as both. I frankly don't have the physique or the other necessary talents to do that. I've never been offered an opportunity to try out for a professional sports team despite my experience doing sports and nobody has even considered me for a lucrative job of brain surgeon or nuclear physicist.
But in those positions for which I do have the skill set, ability, and ambition to do, I have often started out at minimum wage, starvation wages for us, and didn't stay there long because given the chance to do so, I was able to make myself far more valuable than minimum wage to my employers.
It is the difference between liberalism and conservatism. Conservatism expects to merit or earn what they have according to initiative and ability. Liberalism expects to merit what they need based on need.
Either way what is the minimum one who WORKS and is an adult should really make? 7.25 an hour is a joke and I dont care if a hamburger goes from 5.00 a meal to 7.00 a meal if you WORK and are an adult I think 12.50 an hour is the wage
Yup. I have never once been offered a high paying role in a movie or TV sitcom even though I think I could do as good a job at that as many who do get those roles. I've never been offered a job as a fashion model or advertising spokesperson though I have some volunteer experience as both. I frankly don't have the physique or the other necessary talents to do that. I've never been offered an opportunity to try out for a professional sports team despite my experience doing sports and nobody has even considered me for a lucrative job of brain surgeon or nuclear physicist.
But in those positions for which I do have the skill set, ability, and ambition to do, I have often started out at minimum wage, starvation wages for us, and didn't stay there long because given the chance to do so, I was able to make myself far more valuable than minimum wage to my employers.
It is the difference between liberalism and conservatism. Conservatism expects to merit or earn what they have according to initiative and ability. Liberalism expects to merit what they need based on need.
Either way what is the minimum one who WORKS and is an adult should really make? 7.25 an hour is a joke and I dont care if a hamburger goes from 5.00 a meal to 7.00 a meal if you WORK and are an adult I think 12.50 an hour is the wage
Why $12.50? Why not $15? Or $25? If you're going to establish a living wage let's make it a living wage. It will result in much higher unemployment of course and far fewer people risking their existing assets in entreprenourship, and will greatly increase the misery index for many, but at least some of you would say it is only fair.
In a subsequent post you said let the private sector do it. You cannot let the private sector do it if you are going to dictate what the private sector has to pay people to work. You either believe in the free market or you don't. Whenever the government mandates what anybody MUST do with the assets they have, there is no free market.
Either way what is the minimum one who WORKS and is an adult should really make? 7.25 an hour is a joke and I dont care if a hamburger goes from 5.00 a meal to 7.00 a meal if you WORK and are an adult I think 12.50 an hour is the wage
Why $12.50? Why not $15? Or $25? If you're going to establish a living wage let's make it a living wage. It will result in much higher unemployment of course and far fewer people risking their existing assets in entreprenourship, and will greatly increase the misery index for many, but at least some of you would say it is only fair.
In a subsequent post you said let the private sector do it. You cannot let the private sector do it if you are going to dictate what the private sector has to pay people to work. You either believe in the free market or you don't. Whenever the government mandates what anybody MUST do with the assets they have, there is no free market.
I ask the simple question what is a living wage okay?
290.00 a week is not a living wage
What we are doing is subsidizing those who make that to an amount that probably is not far off of 500 a week
Now there part of the problem, not part of the solution
And exactly why is the UE rate going to go up?
I am not claiming you have to do anything with your assets. Have you ever estimated work?
Do you understand how many people this would actually effect and at what cost?
Another thing, I live in the 3rd poorest county in the state I live in. People consider what i make as being rich
My issue maybe more of a local issue, I see things different than most and as a conservative paying a person 9.85 an hour is not enough. That is what the county pays its employees
How can we get people off of the govt tit if we do not set some guide lines to get us there?
One other thing, in trade we cut corporate tax also to get here
it would be a wash
That still does not mean you should not make enough while your doing it to pay your bills does it?
It depends. It depends on what you think the purpose and responsibility of a business is. Some say the purpose of a business is to make a profit. Some say the more accurate purpose of a business is to create customers. NEVER have I heard it said that a business exists for the purpose of providing for the basic neccessities of its employees.
It cost my company about 70.00 an hour to have me hear and they charge about 80 for me
Now what part of my success turning into there success exists so we all succeed?
its the same for every-one. If your not helping a business succeed then you should not be there
People are making that much now (4-500 a week), the govt is subsidizing most of it, think about it
We can do it in the free market
It's a bad thing if what they're doing isn't WORTH a tad more. You think business owners don't have other things to do with that money? As the left is fond of trumpeting when telling us how we don't need "eeevil corporations", the vast majority of employers in this country are small or mid-sized businesses.
Your employer is not your parent, and is in no way obligated to take care of your life problems for you. Grow up.
Are you interested in discussing this further, or are you here simply to be pedantic?
Do you have any idea what "pedantic" means? Because nothing I said qualifies.
I'm not sure how much further one CAN discuss this. What else is there to say beyond the painfully obvious fact that employers are not responsible for your problems; they are consumers purchasing the commodity of your service?
It depends. It depends on what you think the purpose and responsibility of a business is. Some say the purpose of a business is to make a profit. Some say the more accurate purpose of a business is to create customers. NEVER have I heard it said that a business exists for the purpose of providing for the basic neccessities of its employees.
It cost my company about 70.00 an hour to have me hear and they charge about 80 for me
Now what part of my success turning into there success exists so we all succeed?
its the same for every-one. If your not helping a business succeed then you should not be there
People are making that much now (4-500 a week), the govt is subsidizing most of it, think about it
We can do it in the free market
I don't know what you're getting at here. You keep dodging the question; Why is it an employers responsibility, more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? Either the you believe that's their responsibility or you don't. Or you don't think that's what you're really saying, but the reality is you are.
It cost my company about 70.00 an hour to have me hear and they charge about 80 for me
Now what part of my success turning into there success exists so we all succeed?
its the same for every-one. If your not helping a business succeed then you should not be there
People are making that much now (4-500 a week), the govt is subsidizing most of it, think about it
We can do it in the free market
I don't know what you're getting at here. You keep dodging the question; Why is it an employers responsibility, more so than your own, to provide for your basic needs? Either the you believe that's their responsibility or you don't. Or you don't think that's what you're really saying, but the reality is you are.
In most countries considered First World, there are public infrastructures aimed at serving basic needs. We have a few here, but they're far less comprehensive than in most of our peers.
So, naturally, a lot of these things, like healthcare are shifted towards employer benefits. In effect, the expectation is that employers should handle most of the burden of things like care.
This discussion doesn't even really touch the benefits side of a minimum wage, since there is no such thing currently, but to even suggest that the bottom of the pay scale be slightly higher is apparently taboo.
So far, it's supposedly something that would discourage people from moving further in their careers, and that employers shouldn't be responsible for providing basic needs anyway.
So I guess the question becomes: if you don't think employers should provide basic needs, then why even accept your employer's benefits package if you're offered one?
Clearly, a lot of employers view providing basic needs like healthcare as a responsibility to their workers.
